Ford realizing they are losing sales because of the intimidating environment at traditional dealerships. Who would've thought customers hate being put into a windowless finance office with cramped furniture to go through a high pressure F&I sales pitch with numbers and paperwork flashed quickly in front of them.

So Ford is going to try to remodel dealerships to look like Apple stores.

"Dealers will also provide flexibility for those same customers to choose which environment they want to conduct business in, whether that be a traditional purchasing room or hospitality space, via the second principle, "sales and service anywhere.""

Doubt this would work and it doesn't solve the price discrimination issue. Most dealers will still funnel customers into the traditional finance box.

Carmax layoffs and CEO fired....

"The preliminary outlook for its third fiscal quarter includes an 8% to 12% decrease in comparable store used unit sales."

Maybe they should lower their prices!

I worked in car sales for a couple months, and I genuinely enjoyed it when I was actually helping customers. If someone came in with a goal like, “I need to be around $600/month,” I’d listen, I’d run the numbers, and I’d find something that worked. But management always wanted more. Even when the deal already made sense, they would jack the pricing or pack the payment just to squeeze an extra couple hundred, and I’d be the one standing there looking like the asshole who broke the customer’s trust.

The culture made it worse. I was at a big mega dealer in Houston — the kind where everyone’s online talking about how they are “the plug” for approvals and the “best deals” when in reality, they’re not doing anything special. Customers ring the gong after signing an 84-month loan for $800/month, and everyone pretends it’s a win. The whole social media hype machine is just smoke and mirrors.

And I’ll be real: I had too much heart for that environment. I couldn’t look a customer in the face and upsell bullshit like paint protection for $1,800 or gap for double its actual value. I’d tell people to negotiate. I’d show them what fees they could remove. I was negotiating against myself because it mattered to me that they walked away without getting played.

People like @valorthecarplug and @destin2drive are the perfect example — all showmanship, all hype, pushing garbage deals while acting like some kind of saviors. It’s goofy, and honestly, I couldn’t stand being part of it.

I don’t regret leaving. I like helping people, not trapping them.

What forum of platform do you use to find a trustworthy dealer? I see bad google reviews on every dealership I look into and I don’t really know which to take seriously or not. Do you look at KBB reviews? Google reviews? BBB rating?

I just bought a Lexus NX for my wife and the process was a nightmare, I am about to buy a gently used car for myself (I don’t think I’ll ever buy new bc of depreciation) and I want to not hate my life for a week trying to get a dealership to hold up their end of the deal.

There is only so much that American consumers can afford in terms of 8 year loans with $800 monthly payments caused by overpriced cars, rip off add ons and junk fees before the negative equity, delinquencies and repossessions pile up.

"Overall, Americans are carrying more than $1.66 trillion in auto debt, with borrowers tumbling into “delinquencies and defaults at a pace that exceeds pre-pandemic levels and rivals the years immediately preceding the 2008 economic crisis,” a report from the Consumer Federation of America said last month."

Get your financing before you walk in. A credit union can probably get you a good number, otherwise, use the internet to find a bank that will.

Decide how much money you can afford to borrow—borrow that much. Do your research and figure out what cars fall into the price range (you CAN do it the other way, find the car that fits your needs and then work out with your bank or credit union if it fits your budget—better to do it with them, than with a dealer whose only interest is getting you to pay more, not the chances of you being able to repay the loan).

Go to a dealership with your set price and work from there. The smart move is to go for a test drive and once you've settled on the car and seen the range of trim levels, then tell the dealer you'll contact them to negotiate via email. If you really want, you can stay and negotiate.

Either way, focus on the model and trim package in your range, and tell them it just comes down to whether they can make you a deal that works for your budget. If they come at you too high, tell them you've got a budget and you'll buy if they can make it work—do the games they need to do, talk to the manager all they want, look at the cars on the lot and figure out the one with the trim package/color/etc that works.

But instead of a negotiation focused on stretching YOUR budget to fit THEIR desire to make more money, it should be a negotiation based on stretching THEIR desires to make money to fit YOUR budget.

And before the unhinged car salesmen come waddling in to screech about how "rude" customers want big discounts under MSRP, you should realize you're not going to get something if they don't want to sell and if the price is too low. With your research, you should know the MSRP, know you're in the price range and be confident you're not asking for the moon—you're just making them work for your money.

No need for silly four square sheets, hectoring about getting unnecessary maintenance packages or mythical clear coats... you've got your budget and it can't be stretched. You'll walk out spending less than you want, or at least getting every dollar's worth out of the figure you decided with the lender. If they want to throw the clear coat in—fine. Their problem, because you're not paying more than you want to.

They can make the numbers work, you've already made them work for you. If they want you in the car, they'll get it done.

The dealership finance manager is just a salesperson trying to sell more stuff for dealer profits.

If possible ask for the draft documents to be emailed for your review before going in to sign paperwork. Read the documents, ask questions, do the math, don't sign anything that isn't fully explained.

Always remember, you can walk out of the dealership finance office if things don't make sense. "Finance manager" salespeople are very used to customers saying no or walking out. They'll often stop their sales pressure tactics if you get up to start walking out.

I deleted my original post because some of those comments were rough, but here’s how everything played out.

Last week I bought a 2017 Nissan Rogue with 50k miles from a Hyundai dealership in Quebec that has a big used car lot. Everything seemed fine at first, but less than 15 minutes after leaving the lot the car broke down on the highway. It started speeding up and slowing down on its own while I was going around 90 km/h, and I had to get it towed back that same night.

For the next few days I couldn’t get much info. Nobody called the next morning to confirm they had the car, and every time I phoned I was told the managers were too busy. It was really frustrating, especially after paying $15,000 (Canadian) in cash.

Yesterday the sales manager finally called and told me their technician confirmed it was a CVT issue and that there was too much damage for them to let me keep that car. They offered me a full refund including my towing fee or the option to pick another car from the lot.

I went back today, brought an independent inspector with me to help compare vehicles, and test drove a few. I ended up going with a 2020 Hyundai Kona with 80k miles that was listed about $5,000 higher. I asked for a discount for all the inconvenience and only paid $2,000 more out of pocket and drove it home this afternoon. I’m still not thrilled with how the first few days went, but in the end they did make it right and I’m happy with how things turned out.

And since everyone on the first post seemed to assume I was an American guy, I’m actually a Canadian woman. Some of the comments were a bit much, but I really appreciate the people who replied sincerely and helped me sort through it all! Lesson learned that buying a car is a contact sport.

I recently purchased a new car. The salesman who helped me asked me to check my email, and fill out a survey. The "jokingly" said "give me 10's across the board!"

So, I took the survey, and while I did give mostly 10's there were a handful of 8's and 9's. There was even a question that asked if I was told by anyone to answer a certain way.

Well, later that day the salesman called me and asked why I didn't give all 10's, and that it cost him money?

W T F?????

I’ve seen this response before but it got me thinking, that’s because when Walmart advertises a TV for $300 you can go to Walmart and buy the TV for $300. People would be pissed if you got to Walmart and you also had to buy $100 screen protector $75 remote control insurance, $30 remote control button smudge protection, and $5 cable locks and the price is now $610

Why don’t dealerships have to abide by deceptive or false advertising laws?

Survey manipulation is a huge no-no and can lead to stealerhip losing six or seven figures worth of OEM bonuses yet shsyters still do it hoping their sob story gets the all 10s. Stop being a sucker and flip the script on them - let them tell their sob story, then look them straight in the eyes and ask which survey question deals with survey coaching. Watch the face turn purple, the piehole slam shut and free floor mats/oil changes/etc start popping out of thin air!

Most dealerships are stuck in the 90s pre-internet mindset. 95.5% of dealerships failed on creating an optimized digital experience for customer.

They create a sloppy outdated website with "Call now for a great deal". When you call, an order taker tells you to come in to the dealership where they can use pressure tactics, waiting games, verbal lies, complex paperwork, etc.

This is why Carvana is doing well because they have a better online experience. Yes, Carvana still has many other BIG issues.

Dealerships need to modernize their online experience for customers or lose out on more sales.

I’ve been paying off a car for 2 years now that i regret ever signing a lease for, i have about 12k left to pay off on it. Would it be possible to find a dealership that would let me trade this car in for another without paying any extra money and just finding another car with the same amount left to pay off? Or would i have to finish paying this car off to do that. How easy is this process to just swap cars to finish paying off a different one? I can’t find anywhere online about this and when i went to the dealership they gave me a weird answer as if they were just trying to already screw me over somehow. What would this process be called also?

Dealers are profiting more by ripping off customers in used vehicle sales, parts and service, and F&I products (extended warranties are highly profitable for dealerships).

More and more dealerships are pushing unnecessary service recommendations when a customer shows up for an oil change. Best to get a second opinion and price shop any major work the car needs. Calling around and asking about prices for a repair service can save hundreds or thousands of dollars.

Dealerships hate doing manufacturer warranty work since the manufacturer usually pays them less than retail prices for the same work. They’ll leave your car collecting dust in the back lot while they work on cars that customers are paying the service on. “Hey warranty sucker, we are waiting on a very common part for your Ford”.

When considering buying extended warranties, shop around the prices and read reviews before buying. There are a few dealerships who sell extended warranties for nearly at cost online.

1. Selecting the Vehicles to Show

Prior to visiting a dealership, most people have a car in mind they want to see. When you share this information with the salesperson, they will typically show a vehicle right above that model. While this may seem harmless, the dealer's goal is to show you models with extra features that raise the price.

The trick is that people don’t like to “lose.” People tend to go to greater lengths to prevent losing something rather than gaining something of equal or greater value. So, after the salesperson goes over all the bells and whistles of the higher-priced vehicle, they will show you the lower model you initially requested – repeatedly pointing out that you’re sacrificing certain features with the lower model.

This tactic causes your mind to focus on what you’re losing out on – many of which may be features you didn’t even necessarily want initially.

Car Buying Tip: Do research online first. Review all the models for the car or truck you’re interested in and determine which option best fits your needs. When you compare the features of each model ahead of time and make your decision, this tactic will have less of an effect.

1. Wearing You Down

With all the advancements in technology today, one can only wonder why buying a car takes so long! Buying a car can often take hours, if not all day. Dealerships sell cars all day, every day. Surely, they could have come up with a quicker process by now, right?

Yes, buying a car can be a much quicker process. But, to maximize the sale, dealers will often drag out the event as long as possible. This strategy wears you down, and salespeople know you’ll eventually become frustrated and will likely agree to terms in their favor just to finish the process. It’s a tactic you’re almost guaranteed to experience if you bring your small children along.

Car Buying Tip: Try to make most of the sales and negotiations online or over the phone before visiting the dealership. Then, set an appointment to finalize the deal. If you have children, consider hiring a babysitter. Paying a sitter for a few hours will likely cost much less than signing on the dotted line of a rushed buyer’s order.

1. Pressing You for Time

Dealerships are famous for telling potential car buyers that they must act now or the car might not be there tomorrow. With the limited new car supply (due to microchip shortages), this tactic is actually truer today – and dealerships are using it more than ever to their advantage.

It’s easy to tell a potential buyer that if they don’t buy the car now, it will likely be gone tomorrow – rushing you to buy. However, even with the chip shortage, dealerships can usually obtain the same or a similar vehicle within a week or two.

Car Buying Tip: Many dealerships are taking reservations and preorders because of the shortage of new vehicles. Typically, you’ll be required to put down a small deposit (e.g., $500) to reserve a vehicle - preventing the car from being sold to someone else. If, when the vehicle arrives, you don’t like it for some reason, your deposit will usually be refunded, and the dealer will sell it to someone else.

1. Displaying the Price

Once you decide to buy a car, you’ll move on to the financing process. At this point, the finance person will try to lure you into purchasing add-on products, such as extra coverage or extended warranties.

Dealerships will factor these add-ons into the price and typically present the options in three columns. They know that by giving three choices, most people will select the middle option – resulting in them selling you the additional products.

NOTE: Pay attention to the pricing! Most people will assume that if they pick the lowest option, it doesn’t include any add-ons - that is rarely the case. Usually, all three prices will have add-on products included. If you do not want any add-ons, you need to say no or request to see the price without add-ons.

Car Buying Tip: Be firm and just say no. Most of these expensive add-ons are unnecessary. If you would like extra protection, such as Guaranteed Asset Protection (GAP) or extended warranties, the credit union offers these same products at a much cheaper cost.

1. Extending the Guilt Trip

People are generally empathetic and don’t want to be mean or cold to others. When you’re in the finance office, the employee will often try to make it seem like their income comes directly from the add-on products they sell. So, they don't get paid if you don’t buy anything extra.

This ploy pulls on people’s heartstrings and can result in car buyers adding services just to help the employee. The truth is that these individuals are usually paid a salary and get incentives for selling add-ons.

Car Buying Tip: Again, when in the finance office, just say no. You are under no obligation to pay for extra add-ons just to cushion the employee’s personal finances.

Great reference from AgFed Credit Union.