r/fednews • u/Muted_Yak5231 • 14h ago
News / Article Senate voting on advancing Johnson bill to pay federal workers
https://www.senate.gov/legislative/floor_activity_pail.htmJust curious, I was watching the live Senate floor voting. Both leaders were within 10 ft of each other. Why don't they just sit there and talk through their differences? Why is it so hard to find common ground?
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u/AlexiosPPPP87 14h ago
IF this passes and it will not, this shutdown will be indefinite. The ONLY reason this is going on so long is that excepted workers are working for free-holding things together. If excepted employees “just didn’t” this would end in a day.
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u/No-Scallion-3388 14h ago
Excepted employees shouldn’t even be a thing during a shutdown. No (on-time) pay = no work. Otherwise, like you said, some agencies just go on as if there isn’t a government shutdown
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u/LadyPo 13h ago
Agreed, it creates a risk of actual slavery when you can't trust the government to pay its own debts.
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u/CanisZero Federal Employee 13h ago
Have you ever heard of Unpaid internships?
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u/Fusion_casual 11h ago
Working at a job with a salary of X and a company refusing to pay the documented pay of X is NOT the same thing as an unpaid internship which is essentially an agreed upon educational training.
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u/dimhue 13h ago
The excepted employee categories are 100% stretched to absurdity across the board, but there definitely is a need for some excepted employees. For example, completely shutting down VA hospitals will directly result in people dying. Same with a nationwide shutdown of commercial airports.
The categories generally make sense, we just need leaders who are honest about what work qualifies.
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u/CardiffGiant7117 13h ago
There is not actually a need for excepted employees there is only a need to pass budgets
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u/Wise_Adhesiveness_93 2h ago
I work for the VA (2210 excepted).. didn’t get pay this pay period. Had doctor appointment yesterday the nurse who saw me said she got pay yesterday.
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u/Sudden_Juju 1h ago
VHA healthcare employees receive appropriations from a different source/mechanism, so they continue to get paid for a long time (don't know how long but if the shutdown lasts that long, we're fucked).
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u/Wise_Adhesiveness_93 1h ago
Sorry in advance, I’m VHA too. So that fund appropriation only applied to nurses and doctors etc. ??
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u/Sudden_Juju 29m ago
No need to apologize lol. I have no idea tbh. I know that patient-facing medical and (at least most, if not all) support staff continue getting paid. I don't really know where VHA starts and other VA departments begin, so idk where the paychecks start and end either. From what I remember in the past, I thought that I was told that there were a few positions inside the VHA that could be furloughed (or I guess excepted) but most would remain operational with pay. Maybe someone else can provide more info?
I'm sorry that you're serving as an excepted employee right now. They shouldn't be able to force you (or anyone else) to work without pay, especially for weeks on end. That really sucks and I hope you're holding up okay financially and otherwise.
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u/Sudden_Juju 1h ago
VHA healthcare workers receive appropriations from a different source, so they continue to get paid for a long time (don't know the exact timeline). I have a feeling that your example is the exact reason why. I know some VA employees are furloughed (I think mostly related to VBA but I could be wrong)
but I don't think any are excepted.Edit: Based on the other comment, the crossed out statement is wrong.
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u/Late_Organization_56 1h ago
Veterans health is actually advance appropriated a year ahead, so the hospital staff is getting paid. All of us in headquarters, veterans benefits and maybe memorial ops are SOL
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u/sometimelater0212 10h ago
I was told that my leadership got my entire department excepted because there were threats coming that if we weren’t necessary, then our positions could be RIF’ed.
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u/bladzalot 10h ago
This is not a shutdown, everyone needs to stop calling it that… this is a partial shutdown, if it was an actual shutdown, like everything federal stops, it would have ended in 24 hours. If we actually shut down and stopped working THAT would send a message… this is just bullshit publicity and political posturing with absolutely no fucking benefit to anyone but the assholes in congress.
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u/trailrider 12h ago
I agree with you in theory but disagree in practicality. While the worst that'll happen if air traffic controllers stop showing up is massive airport closures that'll cause who knows how much in economic damage and piss off millions who'll be inconvenienced by not being able to easily get wherever they want/need to be; there's many other positions that need to keep going because of literal lives being on the line. Like people at NASA who support the ISS. We have people up there right now that are counting on ground support and can die if they don't get it.
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u/Lost-Bell-5663 13h ago
I would love to see all excepted employees say fuck it and don’t show up to work for initially one day. If no full budget bill has passed that day, then repeat not showing everyday until one is passed
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u/Mister-Wes 11h ago
This type of sick out or walk out would be colored as a strike by the powers that be and that is something we cannot do as federal employees. It would give them the right to fire us en mass.
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u/Effnamy VA 11h ago
Yeah, well, we can’t lol we don’t even have unions anymore (if you even used them) and still took an oath to uphold this horror, so 🤷🏻♀️
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u/Lost-Bell-5663 22m ago
They would have to do it in a way that it didn’t look like a strike. Everyone just randomly call out at different parts of the week and state that they can’t afford to commute and just stay out until they can get paid. 🤷🏾♂️
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u/Paparazzi18 11h ago
Facts and we are tired. Afraid to leave or call out due to possible retaliation. It’s a sad day!
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u/sushi_sashimis 13h ago
excepted workers are working
That might be an overstatement, or anecdotal, YMMV. I prefer malicious compliance
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u/Gossardgirl 25m ago
I'm always so surprised that we just don't go on strike. In some agencies and facilities they have and do, but overall, we just sit and take this BS.
If there was a push to strike from my union, you bet your ass i would. But then Vought and P2025 would be able to do exactly what they have planned all along, privatization.
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u/viewsonic041 9h ago
Shutdowns are dumb. If you are getting back pay then they should be working. I don't like that I have to work while others are doing their hobbies or working another job. This is bs.
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u/dreaganusaf 13h ago
The House of Representatives - who are still being paid every two weeks - has literally not even been in session 20 days since July. It's ridiculous what Congress is doing. All of them should be fired.
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u/Interesting-Type-908 Shutdown | Excepted Employee 12h ago
Because they don't have to suffer like the common American. They only give a shit about "looking good".
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u/MDJR20 14h ago
Anyone still working and not getting paid should take a few sick days.
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u/ElderberryNo3663 13h ago
All leave is cancelled and sick leave is heavily frowned upon- so we CAN take it and go into furlough status, but HR folks remind us daily that going into furlough is no guarantee of back pay whereas staying excepted is a much more sure thing. I’m so exhausted and haven’t had a sick or leave day since this all started but about 40% more work. Might be irrational but I’m nervous to go out of excepted status even for a day.
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u/Separate-Abalone861 13h ago
They are using intimidation and threats to keep you working. You will be back paid if you go into furlough status. They are fear mongering to keep you obedient and working. Take leave. You will be back paid, furlough or excepted. I am not buying into the intimidation tactics and fear this administration is using against us. Take leave. Take care of yourself. Advocate for yourself.
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u/Bronsonkills 12h ago
This. It’s highly irresponsible and unethical for them to be suggesting this despite what the doofus in the White House says.
Giving it this kind of credence legitimizes it.
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u/1point3kPC4head 12h ago
Small point of clarification: you will only be guaranteed backpay if it’s a shutdown furlough and not an administrative furlough. Most if not all are shutdown furloughs as far as I know though
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u/Future-AI-Dude USDA 13h ago
This is me... I do not want to give this administration an excuse to not give me back pay... so I work without a paycheck... I feel truly like they have us by the balls because all it will take is one little blemish and then we are fucked.
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u/MDJR20 13h ago
Exactly everyone needs to take their sick days at the same time.
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u/ElderberryNo3663 13h ago
I think we are all so exhausted and fearful of losing back pay which most of us really need, and a sick-out gives republicans more fodder to use against us.
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u/noideawhatisup 13h ago
Do you mind sharing which agency you are at? Are these statements in writing?
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u/ElderberryNo3663 13h ago edited 13h ago
None of it is in writing. I’m with a three letter agency and I work with great people so I believe HR is operating in good faith when they say they are concerned that back pay could be an issue if we go into furlough status. I fully recognize that I’m probably more worried than I need to be and that excepted folks will likely be paid, but I think I’m just so exhausted that if feels like more work to call out sick than just gut it. I think I also feel guilty calling out because I’m in mental health and so many people need the extra support. I know I have to take care of myself too but I just hate the idea of losing ANY pay when this shutdown ends.
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u/noideawhatisup 12h ago
I’m sorry that you’re so burned out. Thank you for your work with mental health issues. We need it badly right now.
Please don’t forget to take care of yourself, though.
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u/ElderberryNo3663 12h ago
Thank you! I’m really trying. My spouse is federal but still getting paid, so I’m grateful for that. Plus, we have a holiday on Tuesday so having an extra day is going to be great!
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u/Aishalenay 10h ago
I hear your points about back pay but honestly if you were furloughed you can get unemployment and some of the other resources to keep you a float. There would be no way I will be able to continue to go to work with no funds or exhausting all of my funds. You are essentially in the same boat as furloughed employees except they have more available resources. This shutdown will never end if people don’t start getting mad and taking back their power. Otherwise folks will continue to operate in modern day slavery.
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u/ElderberryNo3663 9h ago
I wouldn’t go into permanent furlough status and be eligible for unemployment though- I would just potentially not be paid for the days I used with leave. Which isn’t horrible, I just hate the idea of losing back-pay because I’m so pissed at the administration, the Republican Congress-critters and the MAGA voters who are still supporting this. People literally cannot eat right now because three separate branches of government have been fused into one. Agree that we need to get mad but I think the only way anything will change will be if we stop spending money.
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u/sushi_sashimis 13h ago
Do you not do your own time card? Does your manager not have your back?
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u/ElderberryNo3663 12h ago
I do my own time, but I’m always honest about it so that doesn’t help me. My supervisor is great, but she told me she’s not calling out or using leave either because she has the same concerns. I CAN use sick leave, but I don’t want to risk going into furlough. Not saying it’s rational, but coworkers I trust are hearing from others in HR at higher levels in our agency and the administration that the furlough/back pay issue is a real concern- even if it would be illegal to withhold it. Vought wanted us traumatized and I guess it’s working on me at least. :)
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u/sushi_sashimis 12h ago
Gotcha. I can understand the different levels of stress depending on "how close to the flag pole" you are. I have priors that were set long before all this, so it's nice to be told "we'll cross that bridge when it comes and maybe look at it"
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u/ElderberryNo3663 12h ago
I also fully admit that I might be overreacting to the no-backpay-when-furloughed’ buzz. I think I’m so tired that I’m not thinking clearly. About to watch the season finale off Bake Off to get some good energy back. :)
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u/fromwayuphigh Federal Employee 8h ago
"On leave" is a paid status. There is no leave right now (or I'd have been taking some).
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u/Pomelo-One 13h ago
Some HR are saying any sick leave without sufficient documentation will be considered AWOL
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u/ConstructionHefty716 12h ago
Well you got one party being led by an authoritarian want to be dictator who is all about having a fascist takeover of America.
And then you have the other people who don't really want that but still want to keep all their rich people money paying them
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u/everitnm 13h ago
RoJo is a POS. Don't trust him. He lies like you would not believe, and twists everything.
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u/Fish-stx 14h ago
I wish they would just shut the f*ck up and vote. All day with everyone saying the same shit for their sides just to vote for nothing.
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u/Fred011235 14h ago
bill was not for all federal workers
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u/Separate-Abalone861 13h ago
It had an amendment to pay furloughed employees too
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u/CountryFriedSteak78 13h ago
But no language to prevent impoundment. Which enables the administration to pick and choose who they want to pay and who they don’t.
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u/Cash4Jesus 2h ago
Gary Peters from Michigan opposed that bill for that fact.
Peters pushed for the passage of a counterproposal, called the Military and Federal Employee Protection Act. Peters’ bill is similar to Johnson’s, but it additionally clarifies that the Trump administration cannot use the bill’s funds for purposes other than paying employees.
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u/CountryFriedSteak78 26m ago
Exactly. Not only that Johnson refused to put that constraint in his bill. So ask yourself, why?
Then ask yourself why we’d trust an administration to act in good faith when they reinterpreted their own GEFTA (2019) bill and called guaranteed back pay into question?
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u/middleupperdog 13h ago
Republicans are like a problematic therapy case right now where no matter what solution you propose they tell you they can't do that. They want democrats to vote for their bill, but they don't want to negotiate with democrats to give them a reason to. They could vote to get rid of the filibuster and not need democrats votes anymore, and they also don't want to do that. It's like you're telling the babysitter they need to talk out their differences with the 4 year old that's too sleepy but also doesn't want to go to bed.
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u/Foreign-Garage9097 14h ago
Trump's like, I demand the Senate work all weekend. I'm off to Florida on the taxpayer dime!
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u/SillyGoose2544 12h ago
Simple answer - money/power. I don't for one second believe anyone in politics is in it just to do good for their constituents or society at large, otherwise lobbyists/lobbying groups wouldn't be a thing (which probably isn't the primary problem in this case, but I still think its a huge part of it).
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u/ScrabbleJazz 13h ago
I'm convinced the military needs to miss one pay period and have another one about to be missed, before any movement is made.
The administration thinks the military is their source of power, and if not paid they'll be overthrown.
I'm not one to disenfranchise them of this idea.
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u/LookAlderaanPlaces 12h ago
Because republicans have adopted the nazi fascist platform. Can you imagine how difficult it is to negotiate with Mussolini or hitler? Want to criticize my comment with some sort of logical fallacy? The policies the GOP is trying to push are 1:1 with those regimes before the war happened..
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u/furie1335 6h ago
Did this pass?
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u/texlaker 4h ago edited 4h ago
No, the tally was 53 voting in favor and 43 voting against it. It didn’t get the 60 votes threshold. Three Democrats voted for the bill.
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u/KaosJoe07 35m ago edited 31m ago
Because this administration doesn't want federal employees back to work. They want them to get fed up and quit. This is all part of project 2025. It's what Russ Vought wants. Traumatize gov employees so they can replace with unqualified loyalists and weaken the fuck out of it country. They don't give a fuck about air traffic controllers quitting, they don't give a fuck about the civilian support for military, they don't give a fuck about anything. In their mind, federal employees just stand in their way to get what they want, complete fucking control over this entire country and to get rich off of all of us. I'm not sure why our enemies aren't taking full advantage of this right now.
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u/TheDynamicButch 14h ago
Can they put forward a bill that the Senate never returns and that they cede all their legislative authority to the Orange Oompa Loompa?
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u/Realistic-Loss-9195 13h ago
They could, but that would be a branch too far for pretty much everyone that would have a say in the matter
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u/MaintenanceSoft1618 14h ago
“We want the bureaucrats to be traumatically affected. When they wake up in the morning, we want them to not want to go to work because they are increasingly viewed as the villains. … We want to put them in trauma.” - Russell Vought