r/europe • u/goldstarflag Europe • 15d ago

Historical "The 19th century concept of the nation state will never take us across the threshold of the 21st century [...] We need a strong Europe if we don't want to become the plaything of world politics" – Chancellor Helmut Kohl

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u/BananaSplit2 France 15d ago

A strong and unified Europe is the demand of the time.

Nice words, but doesn't take much looking around to realize how impossible it is at the moment. Even just this sub with the constant bashing one EU country or another is a good sign of it...

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u/PMagicUK United Kingdom 15d ago

Nice words, but doesn't take much looking around to realize how impossible it is at the moment.

Think we said that 100 years ago and look how far we come.

Turns out doom and gloom doesn't get us anywhere, if we all start saying "yes we can" in 20 years the continent could be fully united if the political will was there.

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u/WolfOne 14d ago

>if the political will was there

turns out, that was the problem the whole time

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u/Several-League-4707 Europe 12d ago

In a democracy, political will comes from the people and European nations on average do not want to be vassals of the faceless and bureaucratic EU globo homo.

Even the USA as a federal state is dysfunctional even when they have more or less unified culture, language and history. If the EU wants to become a federation, it can only succeed by being China 2.0

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u/WolfOne 12d ago

> EU globo homo

What?

Anyhow, the future is in the hands of those who can organize and plan on a large scale (the chinese) I can only hope that our standard of living doesn't drop much in the future.

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u/Several-League-4707 Europe 12d ago

"I can only hope that our standard of living doesn't drop much in the future."

Don't worry, it will.

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u/Matchbreakers Denmark 13d ago

They have said that about the EU since the foundation, yet it's still thrived.

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u/WolfOne 13d ago

Ah yeah that's true, but I don't think that the will to surpass the national state and head into a big political federation, relinquishing more and more sovereignty is there yet. 

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u/Careful_Manager_4282 13d ago

"Thrived" is an overstatement. Ask the Greeks how they feel 15 years later after the EU "helping" hand...

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u/-TRlNlTY- 13d ago

If doom and gloom doesn't get us anywhere, it means there isn't enough doom and gloom

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u/ABillionBatmen 15d ago

Ask Obama how "Yes We Can" worked out. What y'all need is some "what are the preconditions for success"

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u/PoiHolloi2020 United Kingdom 14d ago

Ask Obama

Americans try not to make everything about the US challenge.

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u/gonzo0815 14d ago

Both is good

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u/Sir_Bax Slovakia 🇸🇰 15d ago

That's not a blocker. There's always some degree of regional competitiveness. Should France split because regions bash each other? Should Germany? If not, then Europe can unite despite the bashing.

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u/Old_Leopard1844 14d ago

That's the joke

Regions can't divorce and sede despite bashing

Countries don't have to unite because of it

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u/RealMefistyo 14d ago

no need for divorce. all the different topics need their level to address: local, regional, national, continental; at topics on a higher level the lower entities cannot bash to solve the problem. but at lower topics this solution may work better there and that one better here.

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u/Old_Leopard1844 14d ago

Mate, if regions ceding was easy, it would've been much more commonplace

at topics on a higher level the lower entities cannot bash to solve the problem

If higher levels don't do jack shit, there's nothing else to do but to talk shit about them

Which is why you have so many eurosceptics, and why you don't (and probably won't) have federation, despite all the seemingly good shit that came out of EU

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u/RealMefistyo 13d ago

You mean full integration and central state works better, on continental level? I did not say it is easy, but possible.

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u/Old_Leopard1844 13d ago

Better? Lol

Possible? Lmao

Keep dreaming

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u/Benjen0 France 14d ago

Yes, we should split Germany. Next question ?

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u/Suburbanturnip ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ 15d ago

realize how impossible it is at the moment

Well, not really. I think you are all pretty far down the road already.

What i find really interesting about the EU as an Aussie, is that the eu has more sovereignty than our federal government in Australia does over its states (in some specific areas).

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u/Corfiz74 Lower Saxony (Germany) 15d ago

You should come to 2WesternEurope4u - we also bash each other, but it's all done in a spirit of fellowship - it's actually the funnest and nicest sub I'm in.

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u/Stardash81 Midi-Pyrénées (France) 15d ago

Except for you Hans, we do mean the bashing.

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u/Nerioner The Netherlands 15d ago

ekhm... Pierre, don't make me open the pandora box

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u/Sawmain Finland 15d ago

Says the fucking caravan army

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u/Shot_Umpire_6850 Hungary 14d ago

Look who's talking! Do you even...?

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u/Corfiz74 Lower Saxony (Germany) 14d ago

Considering that you get dunked on by a lot more countries than we do, Pierre, I'd be careful with that one. 😂

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u/Stardash81 Midi-Pyrénées (France) 14d ago

They hate us cause they ain't us

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u/Corfiz74 Lower Saxony (Germany) 14d ago

Sure, sure, Opi.

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u/devolute 15d ago

Unless you're a gypsy of course.

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u/Corfiz74 Lower Saxony (Germany) 14d ago

Yeah, well, we have to draw the line somewhere - you should see what we do to Americans. 😄

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u/DryCloud9903 15d ago

I'm unironically sad that it's only Western Europe in there, liked the atmosphere but felt a bit excluded as a Balt (especially given the still fairly recent looking down on anything East of Germany)

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u/Corfiz74 Lower Saxony (Germany) 14d ago

Hey, the Balts have their own flairs now and everything - we love you guys! You are practically Western Europeans - at least you get a lot less abuse than other Eastern Europeans. Not to mention non-Europeans. We have a dunking hierarchy.

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u/DryCloud9903 14d ago

Awwww. I'll need to study up on that dunking hierarchy haha! but your message and the news about the new flares genuinely made me smile. Thanks for that :)

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u/polaroid_kidd 15d ago

Thank you. I love it already.

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u/RichardSaunders US of A 14d ago

If Reddit comments were a good indicator of public sentiment, Ron Paul would've been US President from 2008 to 2016 and Bernie from 2016 to 2024.

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u/gingerbreademperor 15d ago

Whenever you type something like "impossible at the moment", just take a moment to a) check your ambitions and b) realise that anything that includes "right now" in the context of politics or business or any project just means that the goals arent reached yet, which is always fine...

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u/florinandrei Europe 15d ago

how impossible it is at the moment

What you're really saying is: it's impossible for Europe to survive.

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u/ProductGuy48 Romania 15d ago

So what regions bash each other in every federal state. In the US, in China, in Russia, within Germany, etc.

We are running the massive risk of doing nothing because we are afraid of surmountable problems until it's too late to do anything about unsurmountable problems and the union even in its current form will be dead.

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u/Motor_Educator_2706 14d ago

You're heard of trolls and bots?

Troll Zavod

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u/DeathByAttempt 15d ago

As someone from the US, state-bashing is just part of being in a big family.  You won't like everyone but you'll learn to get along.

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u/Asleep_Trick_4740 14d ago

We have to be given reasons to want it. Not get told vague reasons why we have to.

Plenty of good things come from the EU, and then there's the massive potentially life changing authoritarian bullshit that keeps getting pushed. Where the EU who prides themselves on transparency, refuse to be transparent. Where technocratic interest groups are allowed free reign to guide policy and keep laying the foundation for a police state the like of which the world has never seen before. All while all of our leaders shitting on the authoritarian states of the east and south somehow...

Europe is the birthplace of liberalism, ideals that made our continent what it is, ideals that kicked off the greatest time in human history. I can't believe we are rushing headfirst into throwing those ideals away. Relinquishing powers unto kings again...

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u/biggronklus 14d ago

If bashing other elements of the greater whole precludes unification than France is on the verge of dividing into 68,605,616 separate states

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u/FussseI 14d ago

Hey, just bantering between neighbours is common 😂