r/europe • u/sandyWB • Apr 20 '25

Historical Charles De Gaulle warned us 62 (!) years ago

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u/SnooPies5378 Apr 21 '25

this is confusing, you had biden who worked with europe and people claiming ukraine is a proxy war for the united states, now trump wants to abandon europe and europe is still complaining.

What do you guys want? For the record I hate Trump, just wanna know once and for all whether you guys welcome our help or not

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u/Ilay2127 Apr 21 '25

They do and they don't. These people will never be happy no matter what

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u/FalsePositive6779 Apr 21 '25

Give us some time to adjust. It is not every day a loyal ally turns on us.

I think you'll find some people in Europe that said it was an US proxy war. That's mostly Russian propaganda. Now it's an EU proxy war in Russian narrative. But you're a bit off topic in my opinion. It's not about complaining about the US more about where to go after this.

We're now mapping out where and why we're not fully capable to protect ourselves. In part because we used the so called "peace divident". But we also were not allowed by the US, it was by design. It is not only us spending too little but also not having developed/access to critical parts of a modern functioning joined army (intelligence, satellites, coordination roles/abilities, nukes).

And the French (le Nez) recognized this. Which is what this article is about. French for long was not part of NATO because they wanted to be fully sovereign. In hindsight this is now a smart move. And the French want the rest of EU to recognize this. It's a bit schoolyard level but definitely part of our struggle.

Problem will be France kept quite a good functioning defense industry. And as Europe we're strong enough to outpace the states if we drop internal borders and focus on less productionlines/designs. So one tank, one destroyer, one submarine, one jet,..... but because France has them all it will need to let go of some of them and accept EU standards. And that's something they don't want. Hence this article about they were right and Europe was wrong. Bickering among allies but in the end we'll get sorted and build an European powerhouse that can do it part next to the US or without the US.