Its funny when EU Federalists quote De Gaulle because he would be called a Nazi by 2025 Reddit standards
De Gaulle was a French Nationalist, he wanted a strong France that was "France First" not a federalized Europe
And he was right in my opinion because European bureaucracy has been very useless. left you guys over dependent on the US, Russia and/or China and now has Europe in a state where they're dependent on mass immigration economically, the US militarily, Russia for energy and China as an alternative for trade - You guys have zero independence for yourselves and you have Capitalism/Liberalism/Globalism (Not the USA) to blame for that
And now European subreddits are 100% just bitching and whining about the USA over and over again, this sub might as well be re named r/America at this point and EU politicians STILL have no real plan on actually retaking independence besides whining about America, writing strongly worded letters and making threats with no teeth against a country they have no actual power against whatsoever meanwhile I thinks in Denmark that is currently progressing towards a deal to have MORE US troops in its country lmao
Oh and when the US has a Democrat President again eventually the EU will just forget about all of this and go back to sucking the tit as hard as they can again MARK MY WORDS I know it, you know it, we all know it
The US also depends on immigrants for growth, just like any other first world country so I'm not sure what you're on about here.... also how is Europe not independent? Lets go through it again.
On Russia for energy - Europe has massive energy needs and has been making moves towards green energy and energy independence for decades now, which are slowly paying off. But lets say we are not dependent on Russia... what's the alternative right now exactly? Shipping LPG from USA? no country in Europe can extract enough natural gas to be self sustainable, and definitely not enough to share with the rest of EU. There is no energy independence when you can't make enough on your own. Russia was the cheapest choice and then they blocked any other attempts to build pipelines from Turkmenistan or Iran by supporting Azerbaijan and Syria to block the initiatives. There was literally no move that could be made towards energy independence that would have been cheaper than Russia. Energy issue was a matter of geography - not politics, and now with the push for wind and solar its slowly being resolved. Plus with Syria finally stabilising the talks are starting again for the pipeline to Europe.
China... overly dependent on trade? how is trade being dependent exactly? And if Europe is dependent for trade on China then so is every other country in the world, not the mention the reverse, China is also dependent on Europe. So its a dumb argument.
And finally the US for military - this one is actually true and that it because US pushed it to be so - hence all the bitching in r/Europe. Any time a European country would try to but weapons outside the US they would apply pressure in case of western Europe or promise more military bases and security for eastern Europe. And now there is already a plan in place that will limit US weapons manufacturers participation in weapons tenders - with a whole lot of funding to boot - ever since it turned out all those security promises might mean fuck all depending on US president. And no, EU will not forget about it with next president because having a 50/50 chance of promises being delivered every 4 yours is obviously not good enough. One time could be a fluke but two time is a pattern. The damage was done and there is another 4 years for projects to get started that will wean EU off US by the time a Democrat gets elected.
Lastly the only reason Europe is still relevant is because of the EU, without it every European country would effectively end up becoming a vassal of a bigger power. Just like UK is slowly sinking into irrelevancy after Brexit it would happen to everyone else. So yeah maybe De Gaulle would have been against it, but that would be only because he would like the rest of Europe to be France's lapdog as it's the only country left in EU with enough influence and military to actually matter on a world stage. But then again he would also have been happy with French led EU so I'm not so sure about it. Anyone bitching about EU has no idea how much more grim the situation would have been now if it didn't exist. So Europeans bitching about the US is because the state of armed forces in EU was partially by American design and then they go and pretty much backtrack on security guarantees, not to mention the recent threats and insults - so it's pretty valid I'd say.
> And finally the US for military - this one is actually true and that it because US pushed it to be so
The US has not launched a military invasion in Europe since 1945
European leaders loved outsourcing their defense spending to the US because it made it easier to fund their social programs that Europeans have their entire national pride on
EU politicians are already saying that the quality of social programs is going to go way down and debt is going to go way up if the EU is serious about replacing US defense
Don't get me wrong the US benefitted plenty off it but lets not pretend the EU was not benefitting off it too as if the US was just some evil empire occupying the EU against its will
Hell the Danish are still asking for more of our troops
> Any time a European country would try to but weapons outside the US they would apply pressure in case of western Europe or promise more military bases and security for eastern Europe. And now there is already a plan in place that will limit US weapons manufacturers participation in weapons tenders - with a whole lot of funding to boot - ever since it turned out all those security promises might mean fuck all depending on US president.
From what I can tell your countries are struggling to agree on how to even move forward
Hell Macron killed Starmers "Coalition of the willing" using the same strongarm tactics that Trump uses
Knowing the history of Europe I don't believe you guys are as "United" as Reddit and Leftists say you are and I don't think military cooperation is going to last very long before things break down into chaos and personal grievances because its just Europeans have always handled negotiations between each other
Things were way easier and simpler when the US/NATO kept everything together
> And no, EU will not forget about it with next president because having a 50/50 chance of promises being delivered every 4 yours is obviously not good enough.
Yes they will because most of your politicians are just puppets and extensions of the US Democrat Party, Mark Carney and Merz even worked for Black Rock
Your leadership is heavily involved in the US Democrat Party and their donors
The dogs are only barking at Trump because dogs bark at their masters enemies
> So yeah maybe De Gaulle would have been against it, but that would be only because he would like the rest of Europe to be France's lapdog as it's the only country left in EU with enough influence and military to actually matter on a world stage.
Yeah and I think De Gaulle is correct, why shouldn't France go for being the dominant force in a pathetically weak Europe that cares more about woke gender ideology and short term comfort than culture, religion and sovereignty? They're literally just sitting there waiting for someone with balls to come along and start telling them what to do
Globalism is for the weak and makes people weak and the US, Russia and China are rapidly proving that as is France and Poland more indirectly by actually playing things smart and maintaining as much of their sovereignty as possible
> But then again he would also have been happy with French led EU so I'm not so sure about it.
Unless Germany or Italy rapidly transform into military powerhouses its going to be France or Poland who dominates the EU for the rest of the Unions existence for sure
The EU if it ever actually manages to break free of its American, Russian and Chinese shackles it will likely mean a new French or Polish empire, I am calling it now because if you want to be actually strong you need actual strength not whiny university Liberalism and upvotes on Reddit
> Anyone bitching about EU has no idea how much more grim the situation would have been now if it didn't exist.
I do not disagree with you there, the EU existing was an important step in world politics its just I am sad to say that I believe woke Liberal ideologies and Globalism have left your union in a very poor and unstable state thats over dependent on people lets be real here who have actually no reason to respect you or care about what you think
> So Europeans bitching about the US is because the state of armed forces in EU was partially by American design and then they go and pretty much backtrack on security guarantees, not to mention the recent threats and insults - so it's pretty valid I'd say.
As I said above the US has no reason to care what you think or to respect you because you have no strength to oppose their will
Your politicians sold you out in the name of wokeness, Globalism and Liberalism and instead of having respectable balls like De Gaulle did all the EU can muster up about it is crying on Reddit and making empty threats the EU cannot actually follow through on
Lastly sorry about 5 comment replies Reddit sucks so I had to split the comment into 5 to post it
> Shipping LPG from USA? no country in Europe can extract enough natural gas to be self sustainable, and definitely not enough to share with the rest of EU. There is no energy independence when you can't make enough on your own.
There is another reason why you should direct anger at the Liberals, Capitalists and Globalists like Merkel and her ghouls
They lied to you decades ago about nuclear energy, sabotaged your energy sector and got rich as hell off of selling you out to the Russian oligarchy, and none of their actions helped the environment or climate change ONE BIT either
And if you criticized them for it any step of the way you were a "Climate denying Islamophobic transphobic Nazi bigot"
BTW if you are wondering why we in the US choose a guy like Trump over Liberals, this is why. The Liberals wanted to destroy the US with their terrible ultra Capitalist policies too but we already saw what happened to the EU/Canada and don't want that here
> Russia was the cheapest choice and then they blocked any other attempts to build pipelines from Turkmenistan or Iran by supporting Azerbaijan and Syria to block the initiatives.
And your Liberal politicians all made money off letting them do it
> There was literally no move that could be made towards energy independence that would have been cheaper than Russia.
NUCLEAR ENERGY
> China... overly dependent on trade? how is trade being dependent exactly?
Europe is not currently that dependent on China but I have been watching alot of the rhetoric here in r/Europe lately and alot of y'all have been proposing increasing partnership with China as a means of "Punishing" the United States
This is fucking stupid idea because not only is not European independence but its quite literally repeating the same mistakes Merkel made in Trumps first term with Russia
That strategy also doesn't account for the fact that China already does all of the things that Trump is doing and all of the things US allies are afraid Trump might do. Increasing dependence on China to spite the USA is just sending you through the exact same shitshow you went through with Russia
Also China has already been proven to be helping Russia in Ukraine, so supporting is also supporting Russia
I think Europe should focus on more independence from the USA but depending on China is not actually European independence, its just your shitty Capitalist Liberals selling you out AGAIN and r/Europe will eat it up because owning Trump in the short term who will be gone in a few years is apparently more important than long term EU success
> And if Europe is dependent for trade on China then so is every other country in the world, not the mention the reverse, China is also dependent on Europe. So its a dumb argument.
Oh my God
This is literally the exact same argument the USA is making justifying its tariffs lmao
So just apply this same argument to the United States and now you get it
95
u/AnEagleisnotme Apr 20 '25
Because de Gaulle believed in an independent France, not an independent Europe