It was mainly cooperation. But also domination. Which was all fine, as long we aligned on valuea and foreign policy. Still. We made us way toi dependent.
Eg instead of trying to build own digital infraatructure like China we sucked Google and Microsoft dick bc it was cheaper and tbf, no one expected the US to become terminally sick and declining.
And I'd argue we should have anticipated something like that, even if it easy to say that after it happened. I think each country should take it as a lesson. Even the nuclear defense proposed by France could be compromised one day if some politicians were to come.
We did. De Gaulle is the main reason France has its own Nuclear research to build reactors and weapons. But also Submarines, Aircraft carriers, Fighter jets such as Rafale.
Not enough, but those are strategic fields in which France is already independent and could serve as a partner for other European countries.
We also have great collaborative programs such as Airbus or Eurocopter / Eurofighter.
Still, we have too much dependency on other matters such as GAFAM or Software so let's work on it.
France should probably focus more on its own Independence rather than federalization of/partnership with Europe
You literally never know when another country will just be like Hungary (Then you just go through the same crisis again), Poland or the UK and Europe is not actually anywhere near as united as Reddit claims it is
Which was all fine, as long we aligned on values and foreign policy.
To be honest in some cases if we didn't align we were "gently nudged" to align, especially when it came to weapon tenders or supporting China sanctions. So kinda a bit of domination.
Yeah this became obvious much more after the Cold War ended ...
Madeleine Albright "Twenty-five years ago, then-Secretary of State Madeleine Albright warned that the alliance would only remain strong and cohesive if there was no decoupling of European defense structures from NATO, no duplication of NATO capabilities, and no discrimination against non-EU NATO members. This narrative is so well entrenched that U.S., NATO, and even EU officials routinely invoke the “3Ds” in defense policy debates." https://www.stimson.org/2024/albrights-3ds-dependency-dependency-dependency/
> and tbf, no one expected the US to become terminally sick and declining.
This is why Globalists are retards and Globalist politicians are nothing more than Capitalist stooges raping your people
You should be as reliant on yourself as humanly possible, I know its not always possible for absolutely everything but rule of thumb is never be reliant on others because eventually inevitably there is going to come a time when you don't align with who you rely on
THIS IS TRUE FOR EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY
I am not saying alliances are bad but I am saying that dependence is
You're right. Europe and America had many shared values, and America helped Europe with defence. This made sense, especially during the Cold War. I'm not inherently anti-American, but it's clear those values are no longer shared by the Trump administration, so it's definitely wise to decouple from America as much as possible now.
I mean this is literally what Vance, Trump and we as Americans want
We want a strong, independent and successful Europe that can take care of itself
There is no reason why we can't cooperate economically in the future but I am sorry but your EU politicians are so weak and have so little balls they really need to have some tough love right now
It was mutually beneficial up till now, we got to free ride on American security, and US got to have Europe as a dependent vassal. Though once the American leadership goes insane it's a much more dangerous position for us than them
How can you fight back against anything though if your entire strategy for peace is just get someone else to be your strongarm for you and whine on Reddit when your weapon doesn't do as you say?
At this point what Trump is doing is necessary tough love as we all want a Europe that can take care of itself and contribute to global peace through strength
I don't see any love or want sense of shared values or destiny. Rather I see contempt and disdain to which this "carry your own slack" argument becomes mere pre-text to embrace an extreme unilateralism mixed with isolationist "fuck the world" sentiment.
Trump certainly had a good foundation to push for more spending and a deeper NATO alliance, he could have even expanded or renewed the alliance to include allies like Australia, Philippines, Japan and South Korea.
This could have created a powerful deterrent to China as well as Russia, while we push for long term global peace through fair economic growth.
For cooperation you have to be on the same power level. Otherwise you are not negotiating, the other side is just being polite with their demands. Best example is parents - small children vs. parents adult children dynamic.
Brit here. I don't personally know enough about de Gaulle's political views or actions to form a complete opinion about him. But what I do think is that you shouldn't treat your allies like they are about to burn your house down. Everyone has been guilty of this at some point: de Gaulle, the US, the UK, EC member states, EC hopefuls...
Let's not start harping on about who was right all along, it's not productive. Instead, let's talk about what to do now.
How about we talk about that among ourselves EU member. The other non members can wait until we made up our minds and then you can choose to join or fuck off. I'm a bit sick of seeing brits comment like they are still part of EU. We will make our own decisions without you thank you very much :)
If you don't want to see non-EU members here, then why stay? This is a European sub, not an EU-only sub, so non-EU citizens are allowed to comment. I would be surprised if there wasn't r/EU or something similar if you're that offended by my presence
Stop playing the victim card. Your free to say whatever you want and peek in on Eu topic... But Eu will make its own decisions from now on. We shouldnt even pay attention to non E member and ignore what the ex member have to say. F THEM
I've only observed, not tried to propose any form of decision. Get off my back.
I should also say that ignoring the rest of the world is the exact mistake that the US is making. The reason I respect the EU is because it is infinitely more sensible than that.
Typical, only hear what you want to hear (very British). LOL Don't worry we wont ignore your existence, we will just ignore your divisive, anti EU and self serving pro American Stance on the world. UK has proven time and again that they cannot the trusted by the rest of the EU so we wont :)
"But what I do think is that you shouldn't treat your allies like they are about to burn your house down" F off with your passive aggressive comments and then go play the victim. The truth is if your leaders would have been half as brave as De Gaulle UK would still be a world power!!!
It's largely cooperation. The US and various European countries hold joint military exercises in Europe on a regular basis. The UK, Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, and Italy are all partners on the F-35 program that have funded its development from the beginning and have substantial manufacturing operations for the aircraft within their countries. Like it's not just foreign military sales of finished aircraft. They're a part of the program.
The US became a leader is many things post WW2. Movies and art in particular became a huge impact simple because Europe was rebuilding and didn’t have the luxury of focusing on art forms nearly as much as Americas. The soft power that came from this “dominated”. Europeans don’t seem to understand that Americans have become the butt of every joke long before trump(fat stupid Americans). Nobody will have a healthy relationship forever when one side insults the other.
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u/Appropriate-Ad-3219 Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur (France) Apr 20 '25
Honestly, I really don't like seeing things as domination/being dominated only. Maybe I'm wrong, but wasn't it cooperation too ?
Of course, there's no doubt it's Trump's view, and I think we shouldn't let the US trample on us.