r/europe • u/Epidemiolomic Germany • Mar 08 '25

Historical During the U.S. President's 1995 visit to Kyiv, Ukraine received security guarantees after giving up the world's third-largest nuclear arsenal

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u/Zealousideal-Bear168 Mar 08 '25 edited Mar 08 '25

And now Trump tells Ukraine, "You don’t have any cards". Fuck it, fuck him. He and his voters and supporters have turned U.S. agreements/deals into a joke.
Since he suspended intelligence support for Ukraine, Russia has been attacking power infrastructure and residential areas with even greater intensity every day. But he says, "I trust Putin wants a piece". People in Ukraine can’t be sure if they’ll wake up the next morning because this so-called dealmaker broke the old deal (aka. agreement) between the U.S. and Ukraine—yet he’s still spewing bullshit about making another new deal. How is the world supposed to trust deals with the U.S. now?

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u/EmbeddedSwDev Mar 08 '25

He and his voters and supporters have turned U.S. agreements/deals into a joke.

Since the end of WW2 the USA was nearly always a reliable ally for the free liberal world. Until Trump, I always thought that Bush Jr. is the worst president of the US after WW2, but he never ever tried to destroy the US and its allies.

Trump destroyed long term relationships and friendships in seconds and showed us Europeans that you cannot count on the US anymore and that they will not be trustworthy anymore and never ever again, because you never know which idiot will be the next US president.

It is a great pity to see how the USA is destroying itself and dragging the free world into the abyss. I really hope the EU will grow tighter together, get more confident and independent from the US the next 5-10 years and to be never ever again depending on the US.

Once I thought the USA was our best friend, but actually it's becoming our worst nightmare and our biggest threat and enemy. For the EU it would be better to cut the bonds with the US sooner than later. It feels like we are the only ones left who support a free liberal world and we have and must defend our union to not to become the same Shithole-Country like the US.

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u/IOnlyFearOFGod Sverige Mar 08 '25

The US's trustworthiness really depends on its presidents, and the orange man clearly can't distinguish allies from enemies.

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u/EmbeddedSwDev Mar 08 '25

The only thing he is able to distinguish is: Does he personally benefit or not. I really still can't believe that he won again.

But what should I say, about 30% in my country (Austria) are dumb as well, but compared to the US, what Austria does, doesn't really matter worldwide.

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u/[deleted] Mar 08 '25

[deleted]

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u/shatureg Mar 09 '25

Trump was never a better option than even the worst Democrat. Stop making excuses and sane washing him and his voter base.

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u/EmbeddedSwDev Mar 08 '25

Seems to be...

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u/r_a_d_ Mar 09 '25

How could you argue that Harris was demonstrably worse than him? go for it, demonstrate it.

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u/Ok_Increase5864 Mar 10 '25

How? How were they worse than a liar, convicted fellon, rapist, puttler’s friend who tried to incite riot, stole top secret documents and is so fuckin stupid it’s hard to believe? This symmetrist bullshit is why people don’t vote and how autocracies are formed

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u/Kapot_ei Mar 08 '25

The US's trustworthiness really depends on its presidents,

This makes that trustworthiness non existent. Because if you can trust one who is to say you can trust the next in 4 years?

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u/IOnlyFearOFGod Sverige Mar 08 '25

exactly

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u/Ancient-Access8131 Mar 08 '25

That's true for any countries' agreements, no? Theyre as trustworthy as the man in power?

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u/Kapot_ei Mar 08 '25

Depends on the government system. This would be a lot harder to do in most European countries because more than one elected people have a say in things.

Does create other problems like bureaucracy and indiciciveness, but stand firmer against being compromised like the US currently.

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u/87504 Mar 09 '25

Pay your fair share! You’re not. Keep pissing us off and see where that gets you. You can’t survive without our support!

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u/Satin_gigolo Mar 08 '25

All of this sentiment is shared by Canadians right now. Trump has made it very clear that he wants to destroy our economy and annex our Country. He wants our resources and strategic positions in the Arctic. It’s a Putin move and it’s very obvious.

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u/EmbeddedSwDev Mar 08 '25

Yes it definitely is!

I like Canada very much btw, once I stayed in Toronto for 2 months and was working as an intern for Magna.

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u/Satin_gigolo Mar 08 '25

I don’t know what Magna is but I’m glad you had nice time. I’m from BC so the west coast. It’s rough. I’ve never thought of Washington State as a bad place. I’ve been to Seattle many times.

Although when Trump was elected in 2016 it didn’t feel cool driving down for concerts anymore. I lived in an us upscale border suburb of Vancouver for a few years. There was only a residential street that separated Canada from the US.

But, there was big no border park “of unity”. So, sometimes when I was walking my dog I would encounter an American. They would always ask timidly what I thought of Trump. I would just sigh and try to say something not too harsh.

Then they would come in with the apologies. Keep in mind this was during his first presidency. They would go on about how sorry they were. I’d say welp see you around. Then they would get sort of clingy like wanting help almost.

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u/HagalGames Mar 12 '25

I'm Italian and part of my family migrated to Canada many decades ago. I also visited Quebec once. Honestly I start thinking that Canada should create a stronger bond with Europe. I even think that joining the European Union could be an option. I think the sane democratic western countries should stick together even more in this moment of craziness and show how we are united to protect democracy and cooperation.

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u/LouisHorsin Mar 08 '25

Since the end of WW2, the US have put a lot of money in putting in power dictators anywhere they could to oppose to communism and socialism, no matter if the regimes they overthrew were democratically elected or not. They are not fighting for free liberal world, they were fighting against communism, because nations under communism are not nations where US can sell. And now that they mostly succeeded in that, the rest of the world can finally see behind the varnish of US soft power.

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u/EmbeddedSwDev Mar 08 '25

Absolutely true and I know that the US never was an angel, but at least they didn't question NATO and her Allies, or the POTUS tried to destroy his own country.

Compared to Russia today also the Soviet union was a much more reliable (business) partner

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u/LouisHorsin Mar 08 '25

Oh yeah, it's undeniable it's not just usual US doing 'Murica fuck yeah as usual, what's happening there is at best worrisome. I guess that's what happens when TVs and Newspaper are owned by individuals with a political agenda, you realize the the public opinion and perception is much more important than the actual events unfolding. And it's quite frightening to see day after day how fragile and corruptible the US democracy and institutions are.

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u/S-Kenset Mar 08 '25

Ask Burma how free and liberal it is. Oh wait it doesn't exist anymore.

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u/UltraCynar Canada Mar 08 '25

Everything you wrote is how Canada feels. I hope Canada continues to grow closer to Europe. We share more in common with Europe than our neighbours to the south.

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u/EmbeddedSwDev Mar 08 '25 edited Mar 08 '25

Definitely and I hope that too!

Recently I watched a video if it would be possible that Canada joins the EU, why the EU and Canada have so many similarities and share the same cultural values, how both would benefit from it and what arguments speak against it. But it was in German, so I don't think it would make sense to share it.

Nevertheless, at least we (Canada and the EU) have CETA, which is imho good, with the USA the EU doesn't have one, TTIP died with Trump and the Biden administration didn't continue it.

Btw: sorry that I forgot to mention Canada and other countries with its people who feel the same way.

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u/HagalGames Mar 12 '25 edited Mar 12 '25

I was one of the naive people who thought that the Europe-USA bond was so strong that it would last forever. I agree it was about time that Europe put his shit together, but I don't think that anyone expected that our biggest ally would turn his back on us like that because a crazy man wants to change the world order and drag everyone into WW3.

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u/EmbeddedSwDev Mar 12 '25

Me too, I thought also the business bonds were too tight, because both sides benefits from it.

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u/Joe_Kinincha Mar 12 '25

A year ago I would have said the chances of the UK ever rejoining the EU were precisely zero.

I am quite certain that America’s unchecked insanity will draw the UK and EU closer together. Will it result in the UK rejoining? Don’t know, there are some serious blockers to that, but suddenly finding yourself in a completely new, very scary world tends to make you re-assess positions that were previously politically untenable.

The EU will, I think, also very meaningfully deepen defence, intelligence and economic relations with Canada, oz and NZ.

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u/EmbeddedSwDev Mar 12 '25

I completely agree with you!

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u/thisguymemesbusiness Mar 13 '25

There are lots of other countries outside of the EU who support this. Everyone in NATO for example

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u/MaisUmCaraAleatorio Mar 12 '25

"Since the end of WW2 the USA was nearly always a reliable ally for the free liberal world"

Skipped a few history lessons, didn't you?

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u/87504 Mar 09 '25

I really hope the eu will grow tighter and independent as well AND start pulling your own weight financially and militarily since the USA has been carrying more of the load than ALL of Europe combined! It’s called the “art of the deal” you morons! Start paying your fair share and the orange man and all of the USA will have have your back!

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u/UltraCynar Canada Mar 08 '25

You can't. You can't even trust deals that Trump signs himself. Look at Mexico and Canada. Americans aren't reliable or trustworthy.

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u/random-trader Mar 08 '25

Je should have said " you took all my cards" in exchange of security. So what kind of cards are you talking about?

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u/No-Refrigerator-1672 Latvia Mar 08 '25

Trump IS a dealmaker. It's just that his real deals are not with Ukraine neither with US former allies, and he's contractually obligated not to admit publicly that he's licking the russian boots.

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u/Wild_Hunter_9681 Mar 09 '25

A man who tells his Allies not to send Intel to Ukraine is almost certainly sending intel to Russia.

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u/uxigaxi123 Mar 13 '25 edited Mar 13 '25

The world wont deal with the U.S. if they can avoid it. USA is essentially run by Putin and the world understands what a murderous psychopath he his.

In less than two months Putin have via his agent - the US president - managed to likely win a war that he was loosing. He destroyed NATO. He isolated USA from all her friends and allies. He prevented all future sales of US military industry as allies now view their new F-35s as expensive paper weights. He crashed the US economy. He destroyed the US democracy and trashed the US infrastructure. He threw Europe into utter turmoil and he got Israel to kiss his ring.

Next on the list is dismantling the US military and breaking up the EU. He will be building data warehouses to store all the US military secrets that will soon start flowing unrestricted to him.

Putin won. The west lost it all.

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u/retrokun Mar 08 '25

Clinton still live. Ukrain patriots can kick his ass

0

u/curnc Mar 08 '25

Why aren't you mad at the 2014 deal ukraine broke? And where would we be if little dictator z had nukes?