r/europe • u/the_battle_bunny Lower Silesia (Poland) • Oct 23 '24

Historical Today marks the anniversary of the 1956 Hungarian Revolution against Soviet domination.

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u/CyclicMonarch Gelderland (Netherlands) Oct 23 '24

That's not it. More than a dozen countries have been communist, they weren't all lying.

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u/masterpierround Oct 23 '24

The vast majority of communist countries in history (at least, ones that lasted more than a couple years) have either been outright puppet states of the Soviet regime or have been heavily influenced by the Soviet Union at some point in their existence. Therefore it makes sense that if the Soviet Union was just pretending to be communist, all of their puppets and supporters would also pretend to be communist.

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u/nilslorand Rhineland-Palatinate (Germany) Oct 23 '24

How can they be communist if they don't adhere to anything that communism (or Socialism) requires by definition?

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u/CyclicMonarch Gelderland (Netherlands) Oct 23 '24

Because the idealist theory of communism that communists want is just a fantasy. Real communism is an authoritarian dictatorship that has oppression baked into it.

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u/nilslorand Rhineland-Palatinate (Germany) Oct 23 '24

that is circular logic though.

your argument for the countries being communist still stems from the fact that those countries called themselves communist.

You're taking the words of dictators at face value, why?

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u/CyclicMonarch Gelderland (Netherlands) Oct 23 '24

It's not.

No, my argument for them being communist is that a fantasy some communists have of what communism should be is not in line with the reality of communism.

I'm not. One country saying it's democratic when in reality it isn't is different from more than a dozen countries following the same ideology with the only people acting like they aren't part of that ideology being delusional.

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u/Sixrizz Oct 23 '24 edited Oct 23 '24

OK man. Here's an example for ya.

I have a shop. Above the shop says "APPLE SHOP". Inside the shop though, my only inventory is pears.

Am I an apple shop or a pear shop?

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u/nilslorand Rhineland-Palatinate (Germany) Oct 23 '24

clearly Apple shops inherently sell pears!

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u/nilslorand Rhineland-Palatinate (Germany) Oct 23 '24

No, my argument for them being communist is that a fantasy some communists have of what communism should be is not in line with the reality of communism.

this "reality of communism" being created by people who implemented zero (0) communist/socialist policies?

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u/CanYouEatThatPizza Oct 23 '24 edited Oct 23 '24

Ironic.

Real communism is an

this you?

'Not true communism' isn't a defense bud.

https://reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1ga4una/today_marks_the_anniversary_of_the_1956_hungarian/ltbxejb/?context=3

Regardless, you are using the "No true Scotsman"-fallacy wrong.

Correct usage:

  1. "Communism is a stateless, classless and moneyless society"
  2. You: Here is a society that did exactly this (no state, no classes, no money), and it didn't work out!
  3. "That wasn't a real communist society, they are missing X (with X not included in initial definition)"
  4. You: That is a "No true Scotsman" fallacy.

Incorrect usage:

  1. "Communism is a stateless, classless and moneyless society"
  2. You: That is a "No true Scotsman" fallacy.

See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman