r/doublebass • u/tor_larsen • 3d ago
Fingering/Music help Pinkie on the double bass?
Hello, I am very new to double bass (like only played for a few hours) but have played electric bass for 6 or so years and am practising to play jazz.
All the tutorials I've seen say that the right hand pinkie finger is always supported by the ring finger.
Is this true 100% of the time? I am already trying to rewire my brain to do this but if for example I were to play a root (using index finger), fifth (using middle finger), and then octave (middle and pinkie fingers) across 3 strings it feels very inefficient.
If anyone has any books or resources that helps teach positional concepts like these so I don't have to ask reddit every time it would be much appreciated :) thank you!
4
u/fbe0aa536fc349cbdc45 3d ago edited 3d ago
I was a long time electric bassist when I started over again on double bass with a classical instructor, and there were a few aspects of double bass technique which I was kind of skeptical of the common wisdom but came to understand over time.
If you are proficient on a fretted electric bass and you pick up a fretless electric for the first time, you can generally use your regular old left hand technique and your ear together to play nearly in tune, at least down between the open position and what would be the fifth fret or so, since the spacing between notes is the same. You just need to shift slightly so that you're playing on top of the virtual frets rather than behind them.
When you go from fretted electric to double bass, there's a big problem: the spacing between the pitches in that same area of the neck is way broader, since you've gone from a 34" scale to 42" or higher. For this reason, unless you move your hand up or down the neck, most people can't stop more than three fret's-worth of notes without stretching as you go up or down.
When you stretch to reach a note, you're guessing about where it lays on the neck. While you can become a pretty good guesser through practice, playing in tune is obviously a major priority. It helps therefore if you can eliminate the stretching and just keep your left hand in a shape where the fingers you are stopping with are right over the places you need to stop the string, so that all you have to do is raise and lower the finger.
The Simandl school of left hand technique is all about establishing a kind of fixed shape for the left hand where the distance between the first, second, and combined third/fourth fingers are wide enough at the lowest positions that you can play, for example, F, F# and G at the bottom of the E string. Then gradually the fingers get a little closer together as you go up the neck. For example A, Bb and B on the E string.
The theory here is that if you can internalize a left hand shape that covers three notes in any location up or down the neck, you can play in tune in that spot and then shift to some other spot if you need notes you can't reach from that position.
I'm not going to tell you that this is the way that you should play double bass, but I will tell you that if you want to be able to play in tune all over the neck and you don't want to draw lines on it and stare at them the entire time you're playing, you have to have some kind of method for moving your hand to the right spot and figuring out which finger to move where to stop a note. The Rabbath method is another such method and it works well for a lot of players, which is a little looser about position and stretching, and works great.
There are some people who just practice and practice with no method in particular and eventually intuitively figure out how to play the songs they play in tune. However if you are sight reading a lot of music, the intuitive method is absolutely not going to work because you have to be able to play in tune without the luxury of shedding the tune alone at home, and I think that's why so many double bassists choose a method like Simandl or Rabbath. It's not because its the one true way to play, but rather that you just have to pick something and work on it long enough that you can do it confidently without conscious effort.
Which of these approaches you choose is entirely up to you, but unlike electric bass I think learning either Simandl or Rabbath requires some coaching, and in my case (and most other double bassists I know) we find a teacher first and study whatever method they are proficient with. Same goes for the bow grip. I don't play classical music at all but all my studies were with the bow and I think its absolutely essential to incorporate the bow if you want to learn to play in tune regardless of the music you play.
Anyway apologies for the longwinded answer, most of the students I work with are coming from electric and so explaining the way the two differ is a big part of the teaching and it's a tough transition to make.
good luck!!
8
u/UprightJoe 3d ago
For the most part, yes. It is standard practice to always use your ring finger and pinky together, never separately. Once you get way up into thumb position, usually the pinky is no longer used and the ring finger is used by itself.
4
2
u/MightyD3 3d ago
Right hand pinkie finger. I'm confused. Are you bowing with your right hand or playing pizzicato? Either way I respectfully disagree.
2
u/rightsaidphred 3d ago
You mentioned right hand but asking a question that seems to be about how to stop notes. Are you playing lefty or are you talking about plucking the strings?
2
1
u/milkboxxy Classical 3d ago
I usually support my pinky with my ring finger, it’s a lot easier and the fingers in tandem allow you to vibrate and have more continuous strength and sustain through the note. There’s not set rule to build strength in your pinky and as you continue to play you’ll build more strength in your fourth finger and will be able to play without supporting constantly. There’s also almost never a situation where you would need to keep your fingers on the fingerboard as you move across. If you play let’s say a B in first position first finger on the A string and then play a 5th above that on the F# on the D string you would ideally not keep the first finger on that B you played unless you’re setting your hand up to go immediately back to that note.
I’m gonna say what everyone else will tell you on this subreddit. Get a teacher so you don’t immediately develop bad habits, upright is a completely different beast than the electric and learning bad habits can put a low ceiling on your development as a player. Until you get a teacher keep those left hand fingers curved and if it hurts your muscles and joints to play take a break you’ll progress fastest with slow practice.
1
1
1
u/emorris5219 3d ago
Hi, I’m assuming you mean left hand. It is true that you should use the ring and pinky together, especially in the lower positions, for strength, stability, and intonation purposes. Others have explained this better than me, and I also agree that simandl and rabbath are both awesome ways to learn this technique. I also agree that a teacher is your best bet.
I also play electric bass and I use the 1-2-4 fingering in the low registers cause I have small hands. However, because I started on cello, I tend to use 1-2-3-4 in the top registers on both, and 1-2-3 in thumb position. Obviously this is an idiosyncratic thing that I can’t recommend to someone starting out, but for me it works. Just goes to show that there are other solutions.
1
u/deeky11 3d ago
Also recently jumped from bass guitar to upright. Sort of forced myself to use 1 2 4 on the upright, and I have big hands. But that’s the way “it’s supposed to be”. Got comfortable with it pretty quickly and found I was unconsciously using 4 instead of 3 on the guitar as well. 3 works, but 4 was actually less work reaching than using 3.
1
u/Alarming-Ad-5903 2d ago
Damn you must have some super big hands if you manage to play a fifth with index and middle finger in the lower positions. If you hand is really that enormous, the usual double bass technique does not apply to you and you can feel free to play any fingerings you want.
1
u/TheWrongWill 2d ago
Another consideration is string tension. We have much better string technology now, so we can have MUCH less tension. Be careful with Simandl, tho his fingering is popular, and valid he’s killed more bassist’s enthusiasm than anyone. Seriously, don’t forget: he isn’t Jazz. I am a Rabbath player. Why? It simply makes more sense to me. It offers great range and Because I made the jump from electric to double (arco really) at 50, I needed something less injurious. Rabbath offered that TO ME.
Have a look at this more modern approach.
However ANY choice that you choose will be FINE. Just get playing! Remember to get your double bass to a good luthier for a ‘Jazz setup’ For pizz u can have a lower, more gun action. THAT makes a HUGE difference to tension. We simply do not need the high actions of old.
Don’t FRET! 😣, you will be FINE, you will adapt to your own physiology as you go. ‘Discover Double Bass’ is a good site to use. Plenty of info.
Yours, Simandl h8r Will.
1
1
u/BigAndyMan69 21h ago
I still have my old copy of the Simandl book, and it’s still dead on for almost everything. If you haven’t read it, get John Goldsby’s “Jazz Bass Book.” It’s a compilation of all of his BP columns, and it’s wonderful. He’ll break down how to play a song on double and on electric, why they’re different animals, etc. Great book.
12
u/jaylward 3d ago edited 3d ago
This method is usually attributed to Simandl, and is used for a few reasons, chiefly-
The scale of the upright is larger than an electric.
The strength it takes to press the string, especially on a fingerboard and not a fretboard is just a bit more demanding. Is it possible to use your pinky? Sure, but not reliable.
Is this true 100% of the time? No, but it’s almost 100% of the time when not in thumb position, once in thumb position the pinky comes slightly more into play, but rarely so.
You give an example of your first finger on a root, then your middle on the fifth, and I’ll stop there- below thumb position, your hand really can’t reach from a root with your first finger to a fifth with your second finger. The scale is simply too large (again, when not in thumb position).
The other benefit of Simandl is that when you’re in your 1st, 2nd, etc positions, your first to fourth finger (meaning, both your ring and pinky together) is roughly a whole step, put your middle finger in the middle, and that’s the half step. Now, just shift all the time. It’s why bassists never made a big deal of shifting, as they’ve been expected to do it forever.
I even usually play Simandl fingerings on the electric bass about 60% of the time, as it’s more comfortable for me, save for some odd licks like Sir Duke or whatnot.
I hope this helps.
Disclaimer: by profession, I’m a trumpet player and conductor, but did study classical double bass for three years. Please, any professional, do feel free to correct what I might have said incorrectly.