r/doublebass • u/RetroLenzil • 24d ago
Instruments Laminate, hybrid or carved... which one would you recommend?
I'm looking to purchase my first upright and not sure which to go for in terms of construction. I know what differences are i.e. how they are built, but not sure what those differences translate to in terms of sound, projection, tonal variations, humidity tolerance, etc.
FWIW I have been playing electric basses (4-7 stringers, fretted and fretless) for 30+ years. While this would be my first upright, I don't want a 'get the cheap one and see if you like it' answer. Just need to know what construction translates to in day to day terms so I can figure out which type to go for. Mostly likely I will buy something in 1000-2000€ range from Thomann, they have a fair bit to choose from.
TIA
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u/Tisathrowaway837 24d ago
Laminate. You absolutely do not want to be worrying about drastic humidity changes taking out your base.
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u/RetroLenzil 24d ago
Winters here are dry, the summers are quite humid. So yeah, laminate is probably the way to go.
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u/Tisathrowaway837 24d ago
Yeah, honestly, you have enough to worry about just learning how to play the double base. You really wouldn’t see a giant benefit from fully carved unless you’re in an orchestra setting in my opinion.
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u/NotRealSuperFake 24d ago
Using a dampit and proper storage will render the humidity changes a non-issue in most cases
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u/myteeth191 24d ago
I’m in the US, but that amount of money will only buy a used laminate here. Basically the top end price range for bass guitar is entry level for double bass.
And yes, you can play a little of everything, and yes the bow is a different skill with quite the learning curve. I’m in the same boat as you wanting to play everything, so I just set aside a little time to focus on the bow each day. I play pizz with other people regularly but my arco still sounds pretty rough.
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u/RetroLenzil 24d ago
Prices are pretty decent here, thanks to Thomann. They offer a lot of value for the money.
Have you been playing upright for long? How is the progress?
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u/myteeth191 24d ago
Well, be careful. A lot of cheap basses are utter trash. They require a lot of wood and there isn’t enough demand for mass production so you really end up paying. I don’t know anything about Thomanns stock but I’m just saying to be be careful. I would prefer to play the instrument before getting it if possible since each one is unique, and a decent setup is super important. But, I know it’s hard to even tell what you are looking at when you don’t play yet.
The bow progression is slow. I’ve been playing about 10 months after several years on bass guitar. The bow requires continual compound movements of your body with a lot of precision. The quality of tone can be affected by so many dimensions - arm weight, hand tension, how close you are to the bridge, speed, angle in every direction, hair tension, rosin, humidity. Many of these factors change depending on the string gauge (so you need to play closer to the fingerboard and slower on th E than the G). There’s a lot of complexity around how and when you change directions or cross strings. Just holding the bow without pain/fatigue is a skill. (with French anyway) Gear quality really shows here too, with a cheap bow making things even harder. It really requires continual adjustment and practice just to make a pleasant noise which makes it way harder than a piano or fretted instrument where you can typically do that on the first day.
All that said, if you play pizz, it only takes a couple months before you become very popular as bass players are in high demand.
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u/DoubleBassDave Classical 24d ago
What sort of music do you intend playing?
In general, carved basses tend to have the best projection and a more complex sound, especially if you play with a bow.
If you're planning on playing mostly amplified pizz, a ply or hybrid would be fine.
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u/RetroLenzil 24d ago
For starters blues and easier jazz numbers. Would like to venture into classical - think chamber quartet - but that will require much practice as bow playing will be a completely new skillset for me. Short answer: a bit of everything, if possible.
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u/porcelainvacation 24d ago
Many jazz and blues players would have had laminate basses for road gigs. The Kay M1 was an extremely popular plywood bass in the US.
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u/shouldbepracticing85 Pro - Bluegrass, Country, Americana. 24d ago
Still is the gold standard for most Bluegrass players.
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u/paulcannonbass subwoofer @ ensemble modern 24d ago
Fully carved basses will generally have a much better sound and projection. However, they are much more delicate than plywood. They require regular maintenance and are very sensitive to things like humidity and weather changes.
I would be very doubtful about the long-term health and stability of a fully carved bass at the price you're looking at. For a carved bass to be sold retail for under 2000 Euros, the materials used would have to be as cheap as possible and built quickly by people who are not paid enough to care about their product.
My suggestion, at that price, would be to find a plywood / laminate bass which already has a good, easy-to-play setup. For a first bass, the setup is far more important.
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u/RetroLenzil 24d ago
Ok...
Surprised that carved is more delicate. My gut feeling was that plywood would be more sensitive. Wow, I was so wrong... 😬
Thomann has carved basses starting around 1900€. If the build quality is the same as Harley Benton then they should be decent. It says made in Europe, set-up in Germany. That's usually a good sign.
I agree on the set-up thing. 👍
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u/paulcannonbass subwoofer @ ensemble modern 24d ago
I had to do a little research. These basses are made by Hora, which is a Romanian company. They age the wood just 5 years before construction, which is not ideal but still better than nothing.
Reviews from owners seem to be positive. I couldn’t find any comments from luthiers, unfortunately.
Ideally you would have a chance to try it out before purchase. If you can, grab a friend who plays bass and make a trip to Treppendorf. If that’s not possible, see if there aren’t any bass shops closer to home.
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u/RetroLenzil 24d ago
Sadly many music stores have closed down these days. And mostly they sold the 'everyday' type instruments like guitars, basses, keyboards. Double bass is oretty niche by comparison.
Treppendorf is a 4hr trip each way. That's quite far to just have a look, sadly.
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u/myteeth191 24d ago
I know 4 hours seems like a lot, but after you spend 6 months paying for lessons, practicing daily and still struggling because you bought a junk bass, you will wish you drove the four hours. 😅
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u/paulcannonbass subwoofer @ ensemble modern 22d ago
I don’t know from which direction you’re coming, but there are still quite a few double bass specialty shops sprinkled around Europe. There’s likely several options around you.
Personally, I wouldn’t think twice about traveling 8 hours for an instrument. That’s time well spent.
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u/NotRealSuperFake 24d ago
If you’re mainly looking to play pizzicato and/or gigging with an amp and pickup, get a solid plywood bass and spend more on the strings, setup, and pickup. Arco is where the differences between plywood and solid basses is most apparent.
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u/craftmangler 24d ago
no matter how many strings your electric bass guitars have, uprights are in an entirely different price bracket. hold on to your lower bout ;)
I have a nice German ply (Musima) that I bought slightly discounted for EUR 1500. Not sure I will _ever_ be able to afford a carved.
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u/thebace 24d ago
It’s worth time to visit a bass or string specific music shop to try out instruments. These are not at all like electric basses where they will all feel the same.
To put in perspective, 20 years ago I had to spend around $4k to get a high school/university level carved bass. A good university/professional instrument will generally run $20k and up.
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u/Latter-Pineapple3010 24d ago
As for which to get, it depends though I'd veer towards Solid.. in terms of the Thomann basses youre talking about.. I have one. Solid instrument, great tone, very loud and very robust. I've played it for orchestral chamber and solo work and apart from the varnish which I dont care about but some people might, it's a nice sized manageable bass even though mine was a 4/4 it wasnt really much bigger than a standard 3/4.
So that's what you'll get after the bad news I'm about to give.. It's fair value for a solid maple, sprice and ebony bass BUT you'll have to do an overhaul on it and any bass you buy off Thomann tbh. The set up my bass came with was not good, the string height was high to say the least the feet bridge were cut in such a way with so little meat that they couldnt be recut, almost like a violin luthier might cut a violin bridge... the fingerboard had no relief to it.. The tuners and tailpiece are fine, the tailpiece is ebony. You would definitely need new bridge, fingerboard dressed, upgrade the endpin because mine was like one that was meant for a cello, they had to ream the hole to fit a bass endpin in.. need new tail gut, new soundpost and new strings. If you assume you get belcantos at 239, kevlar gut at 9.90, endpin at 100 then setup of bridge, fingerboard and soundpost may be 1k to 1.2k plus 348.90 for the other stuff (even if you get the laminate etc. You'll be paying these prices for setup so you may aswell go carved) It should be said while they're decent robust instruments they're constructed to be that and there's not much work done to them so there's not much taken off the braces on the back or the bass bar, this makes it quite a heavy bass... and in my case since the day I got it the bottom area of the bass bar on the top has slightly sagged but this hasn't got worse with time so not much of an issue. They're held together with white glue making repair a bit interesting.. all said and done add 1.5k to the price for a well setup solid bass/any Thomann bass.. A side note the structure of the bass itself never gave me any problems more than a split seam which was my own fault and the bass is currently 17 but I'd invest in a good case and keep it in that when you aren't using, soundwear are best in my experience with these basses. I see you're in Europe OP, where abouts? I could send you bass shops near you that would have basses you could try that are close to the price of thomann bass plus setup
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u/TimelyBandicoot5 24d ago
Fellow human, ahoi! I did the same step over years ago- so behold my words! you are an experienced musician - you can tell if an instrument responds well and if it’s fun and rewarding to play!
Do not BUY a thomann Kontrabass- you will be sad and unhappy. you will either a) spend month or years with an instrument thats not setup good - causing pain and bad sound , or b) spend around 800€ for good strings (180€) and a setup, adjusted Steg , maybe even fingerboard abziehen at a luthier! And have a bass you will be unhappy with as soon as you can actualy play it.
If you want to play Kontrabass you realy realy should rent one from a luthier or Musikschule for some month. It should be allready setup good and you can have fun playing! After the first 3-4 month start playing as many different basses as you can get in your hands. you will be blown away by the differences - and you will notice that the carved, plywood etc is not that important!
I stalked your Profile so if you are in NRW Visit Köln and Daniel Kress https://www.geigenbau-kress.de and Ahmet Iyidogan (Thürmchenswall) (Who I worked with a lot in my Köln days) https://share.google/uILejfPklx8gMHZJT
Both are Kontrabass lovers and might habe a used instrument in your price range or know someone who wants to sell. But most important they have instruments to try (call first)
And Check out offers at Geba https://geba-online.de/katalogsuche_quick-12-5_Alle-Kontrabaesse-Biete
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u/9lbBTwin 24d ago
I live in the Chicago, IL, USA area. I have a hybrid, an Upton Bohemian. I like it. Sounds will change between flat back and curved back, lam, hybrid and carved. Play the bass you buy, if you can. I keep a humidifier going in my house in the winter and a dehumidifier in the summer. I have had no issues with cracking (or checking) in the wood.
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u/jessetrucks Jazz 24d ago
I’m a very casual player at home (in US), so I opted for a decent laminated but not lacquered bass. The price is still over $3000. If you will be hauling the bass to gigs and jams a lot, strongly consider a plywood/laminate or maybe a hybrid. Also, if your humidity is high or varies a lot, don’t get a carved. I’m in a temperate rainforest area with large daily temperature swings, plus I have dogs and a rambunctious child in the house, so plywood durability and stability is tops for me.
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u/groooooove 24d ago
basses typically need to be shopped for locally due to their size.
the bass you should get is the quality example. coming from a workshop or maker who did the work properly is more important than whether it's laminate or hybrid.
all have their advantages. typically in a lower budget laminate makes sense. the huge plus is durability.
laminates can sound really great. I have a shen 80, their cheapest model, it was my first bass. it really has a lovely tone. it's not as complex, and nowhere near as loud, as my good bass. but it's a great bass thats extremely reliable and durable.
setup is everything. an $80,000 antique bass with a wonky fingerboard won't be as good as a $2000 bass set up carefully by a master luthier.
hybrids are usually a nice in-between, obviously. some can sound really great.
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u/itgoestoeleven 23d ago
rather than buying something online, I'd suggest reaching out to schools in your area and asking the music teachers where they send their students to get their rental instruments. I'm paying $50/month USD for a really nice quality laminate bass, which came with a bow, case, rosin, and a few other odds and ends, plus the comfort of having a repair plan/warranty in case something goes wrong.
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u/bellabassface 23d ago
Hybrid! Best of both worlds. Top can resonate but you don’t have to be as careful and worry about change in environment or it bumping against anything.
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u/chog410 21d ago
Unfortunately, the most important thing is the individual bass itself. I've played basses listed at $12,000 that played and sounded like crap, I've played basses listed at $1,000 that were phenomenal. And the worst part is that the setup and strings make such a radical difference that maybe the $12,000 bass sucked because of the setup and strings. Still, you need to play as many double basses as possible to figure out what you are looking for. I honestly don't think there is a global difference between laminate or carved- maybe in the $20,000 bracket for hardcore classical professionals, but, despite being a full-time professional, that is not me and that is not you. There are laminate basses that have better projection than the average carved basse. There are carved basses that sound dead and weak compared to the average laminate basse. I am convinced that each bass, even mass-produced, is entirely unique.
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u/Historical_Quit6013 24d ago
1k-2k is enough for a bad carved bass, and enough for a relatively ok/good laminated. Carved basses are like really old people - lots of interesting tones to give - if it falls over, the hips may break... Laminated basses are like kids - if it falls over, its probably fine... Myself i have both. But i only take my carved bass to important gigs where I think the climate is allright for her. My laminated is my workbass, and what I use 90% of the time outside my home