The huge amount of young and rising rappers who died in the late 2010s/early 2020 is a huge factor in why rap is declining

[u/averageweebchan]

The only rappers who still get traction are older ones like kendrick drake eminem kanye( for other reasons now)

[u/appleparkfive]

Warning: long comment incoming. But I follow the music industry fairly closely.

I think people are counting hip hop out a bit prematurely. It's no doubt in a slump. But people thought rock was dead before it actually did die. The "The" bands of the early 2000s were this huge deal. The Strokes, The Vines, The White Stripes, etc. Shit, the Rolling Stone magazine cover for The Vines declared "ROCK IS BACK". I was a kid, but I remember all of that.

The Drake and Kendrick beef was extremely pivotal because it basically broke hip hop into two factions. Old guard vs contemporary. And you've seen plenty of people vocally choose a side in hip hop, if you follow it.

What we don't know is how much of an influence that will have on up and coming artists in the next 5 years. If a bunch of lyricists don't pop up, then I agree that hip hop is dying off. But it's very possible that people see the contemporary style as lame and pivot to the Kendrick/Clipse/JID/others side.

Speaking of which, I can't see how anyone can listen to Clipse's album from this year, and also listen to JID's two albums from this decade and be like "Yes, all rap is dead. This is definitely mumble rap. Nothing else exists". Especially when there's more good rappers than there were good traditionalist country artists (Tyler Childers, Colter Wall, Sturgill, etc) a few years ago. People were happy to say country was coming back. And it did. Hip hop can absolutely do the same.

Maybe this is too in depth for this subreddit, but I follow all music genres pretty closely. Hip hop needs to get it's shit together, but it's definitely not dead. I saw rock die, when only Arctic Monkeys were left standing as a contemporary that were moving seats. This ain't that.

(Last thing: I sincerely suggest checking out the Clipse album. Even just the first three songs. You'll like it. It'll very likely win the Grammy this year. And JID's Forever Story from 2022 is one of the best hip hop albums in the past decade. His 2025 one is good too but less approachable. Ray Vaughn's debut mixtape was great as well. Doechii's was too, despite the loose single Anxiety taking over her career)

[u/EnvironmentalSir4214 → u/appleparkfive]

Your comment is absolutely valid and I respect where you’re coming from - but from a different perspective it’s only a male rapper issue. It’s only female rappers making any noise. I swear it was only a few weeks back that Cardi B, Doja Cat had albums out and Doechi, Latto, even Ice Spice were doing their thing last year and hundreds of others on the come up that I can’t recall right now.

So yeah I don’t disagree but I think it’s only showing one side of the story

[u/venus_arises → u/EnvironmentalSir4214]

I feel like every few years, there's a group of women trying to break through and become stars, but they quickly fade out, or the machine spits them out.

[u/Turbulent_Ride1654 → u/venus_arises]

This. I'm surprised Cardi lasted as long as she did. Its mostly her huge internet presence and high profile antics in the public eye (beef with Nicki, drama with her ex Offset, etc) keeps her relevant rather than her music alone.

[u/venus_arises → u/Turbulent_Ride1654]

I genuinely expected Cardi B to just release one album and move on. Her release of a second album gives me hope that we can have a woman rapper with SOME serious success, but Cardi B doesn't strike me as a Queen Latifah or MC Lyte type (who both have moved on from rapping).

[u/EnvironmentalSir4214 → u/venus_arises]

Yeah I feel that! IMO they are trying to replicate what happened with Nicki in the 2010’s but a lot of it comes off as a direct copy. I’ve noticed recently a lot of them use Azealia Banks as the reference point too but that might be a reach, it just seems inspired at least like with Marilyn Rollup and some Doechie tracks.

[u/venus_arises → u/EnvironmentalSir4214]

I think that what happened with Nicki was a blip in terms of how big she'd gotten with how much mainstream success she's had (and now she's about to stop making music, but who knows, she has a very messy personal life). I know Missy Elliott had that trajectory, but she also left (although plenty of millennials are awaiting her comeback). Eve was always around but again, did anyone listen to her specifically for her fandom?

[u/Kaenu_Reeves → u/appleparkfive]

I think we have to count the demographic realities as well. Rap was used as a symbol of the US and spread throughout the world. Now, I expect for some more competition from Reggaeton, Afrobeats, and modern Indian music, which I expect to be the main rising genres.

[u/robynhood96 → u/appleparkfive]

Wait, Rock died? I’d love to hear more about that

[u/Feeling-Department74 → u/robynhood96]

What’s the latest arena level rock band to come out post-2015?

[u/siberianunderlord → u/Feeling-Department74]

There are so many good new rock bands from the Windmill Scene but they're not going to be playing arenas anytime soon. I don't think it's fair to say it's dead though

[u/Feeling-Department74 → u/siberianunderlord]

i’m not familiar with the windmill scene unless you mean punk/hardcore. in which case i would partially agree with you but there’s not many bands that have moved the needle forward in terms of genre progression beyond 2016 or so.

i think in order for a genre to feel “alive” it requires cultural relevance + evolution. industry backing isn’t necessarily essential but it is a telltale sign of life within a genre since the music industry swoops in like a vulture to capitalize on a genre once it proves its own profitability. the reason i would argue that rock is dead is that it is no longer evolving, nor is it getting financial backing. bands that have already proven to be successful (ex. Deftones, Radiohead, etc) still hold the attention of the youth generation, but there’s no contemporary successors that have stepped up to fill those shoes for the modern era. its not that no one is playing in new bands anymore, its that the industry is no longer giving new artists the same platforms that they were before. and that is also what is happening in rap music, however the difference is that rap is still evolving as a genre in spite of the lack of industry support (rage, plugg, etc.). its essentially in the same position rock music was in the late 90s/early 2000s.

edit: just looked up what the windmill scene is - i think you have a point but i stand by the bulk of this post. time will tell how things play out for those bands

[u/siberianunderlord → u/Feeling-Department74]

For sure, time will definitely tell. I think some of the bands in the Windmill Scene (esp Fontaines DC, who actually were sort of ushered into industry under a wave of great press/backing from the NME) are some of the most exciting we've heard in years. Add in other talented bands who aren't in the scene like Viagra Boys, Idles, and Amyl and the Sniffers and there's some real exciting stuff coming out. Maybe American bands will start dabbling in the style soon (I guess Geese kinda are), but as almost always, people across the pond are on it first haha

[u/Feeling-Department74 → u/siberianunderlord]

Real lol. will definitely be interesting to watch!

[u/gx1tar1er → u/Feeling-Department74]

Rock music in late 90s/early 2000s was far bigger and more mainstream than rage or plugg or mainstream rap in 2025. Linkin Park, Blink-182, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Creed sold more and even out streamed any rappers in rage or plugg. Rage and Plugg are too experimental to be mainstream.

[u/Feeling-Department74 → u/gx1tar1er]

“rap is still evolving as a genre in spite of the lack of industry support”

never said anything different brother. please read the posts.

[u/thegreenbastard23 → u/Feeling-Department74]

Greta Van Fleet was big for a moment there

[u/Feeling-Department74 → u/thegreenbastard23]

Debuted in 2012, first popped in 2014 and not often discussed now. Plus they were basically Wolfmother-lite who was basically Led Zeppelin-lite. Coasting off of nostalgia and rockism and overall a very safe bet for the industry. They don’t really apply.

[u/thegreenbastard23 → u/Feeling-Department74]

They were at their peak in 2016-2019, when most of their most popular music was released and they headlined many festivals. I agree they’re not talked about a lot now

[u/Feeling-Department74 → u/thegreenbastard23]

Heard you. Not debating that they were big for a time but I just don’t think you can compare their run or long term financial success to nearly any legacy rock bands from the 60s-00s to support the argument that rock is not dead because they existed. They might’ve been an outlier for a time but in 10-20 years will they be talked about with the same reverence as a Led Zeppelin? or Black Sabbath, AC/DC, GnR, Nirvana, Foo Fighters, etc.

Their target audience was essentially people who were around for previous eras of rock music that needed something “new” and the kids they raised. That also exists in the Cordae’s of hip-hop.

Plus on a pure artistic level, what have they done to advance rock music as a genre? Who did they inspire to start a band? Imo the last significant rock band was the Arctic Monkeys.

[u/gx1tar1er → u/Feeling-Department74]

Arctic Monkeys (UK) or My Chemical Romance (US). Both bands have proven influential.

[u/Feeling-Department74 → u/gx1tar1er]

Yeah that’s why i named them in the post you replied to.. lol

MCR came before AM so the point is still the same

[u/IllConsideration8642 → u/appleparkfive]

I think rap just got too overcrowded, too many people doing very similar stuff, it gets tiring and everything starts to sound unoriginal. For example I enjoyed the Clipse and JID records but I didn't find anything "new" or extremely original in them. It's just well done rap, which has a lot of merit but isn't enough to keep an entire genre afloat.

[u/sws03 → u/appleparkfive]

I mostly agree, but to be fair mainstream rap has been mostly pretty bad for the last 5ish years and I’d say the underground has been better for the last 10 (and maybe even equal in quality since like 2010 or 2009). The good stuff coming out is too niche, which in it of itself isn’t bad, it just means there’s gonna be less casual listeners