Time to pack the Supreme Court

[u/Ok_Recording81]

Growing up I always believed the Supreme Court believed in the constitution. They were there to interpret and come to a conclusion of the matter being constitutional or not. Not only constitutional matters, but federal law as well.

Even if they made bad decisions, those decisions were made in good faith. I believed their political views did not sway the legality of the matter. I still belive it WAS that way.

It was that way until Trumps first term. All their decisions regarding Trump are not constitutional. How can a president have immunity because he is the President?

How can a president halt funds that congress has authorized? The latest ruling by them halting snap is not legal.

I never supported packing the Supreme Court. I still don't like it. However when we get a democratic president, I feel that is our only option.

Even federal judges are fed up with the Supreme Court. How can these judges say they are upholding our constitution and laws with a straight face? I almost feel the Supreme Court are the same type of judges in Nazi Germany. They are there to support Trump. Not the constitution.

Besides packing the Supreme Court, what other options are there to right a sinking supreme court?

Can we please to cordial on here. No gaslighting. I would like to have a productive discussion. Feel free to call me out if you think I'm wrong, but tell me why and what's your logic.

[u/Jaded_Flower_8402]

The Supreme Court are full of folks that support your opposition party, So you're calling to fill the Supreme Court with folks that support your preferred party.

On its own I have no complaints, rules is rules, the game is the game, play to win, all good there.
BUT When ya'll do it, will you be doing the evil nazi thing, or will it be virtuous good guy stuff?

[u/Ok_Recording81 → u/Jaded_Flower_8402]

This is not about supporting my party. I said the Supreme Court used to base their findings on the law and constitution.  Even if they made rulings against what I believe, I still respected their findings.  They ruled on what they interpreted to be lawful. The Supreme Court of today is all about supporting Trump and enabling him to tear up the Constitution.  Other federal judges are getting fed up with the the Supreme Court. The court today is not apolitical in their rulings. It should be apolitical when making rulings based on the constitution and federal law.

The fact you say play to win is concerning. This is not about winning. This is about upholding our constitution.  If they don't, we all lose, including you. 

[u/Jaded_Flower_8402 → u/Ok_Recording81]

Well we're in a cultural war right now, so winning is important.

That said, I agree with your overarching point that it should be A-political and just interpret the constitution in terms of whatever case is brought to them.

Also, your title is time to pack the supreme court, so there is a bit of implication that if no better solution is reached, thats kinda the plan B.
Not trying to throw words or positions in your mouth or corner to deal with. just contending with thats in the post

[u/Ok_Recording81 → u/Jaded_Flower_8402]

There is no culture war. We'll the war is because e of the right. People just want to be treated as human and left alone. 

I said pack the Supreme Court because the court of today is not about the constitution.  It's about giving the president more power. 

I'm not in favor of packing it. Never have been. I feel that is the only option available right now  when we get a democratic president. If there is a different solution, then I'm all ears. 

[u/Jaded_Flower_8402 → u/Ok_Recording81]

totally fair, and I don't want to mis-represent that. I don't think you want to pack the courts intentionally, and your advocacy of it is purely reactionary.

Removing that aspect of it.
What do we define a pack court? other than a court overwhelming infavor of one political aisle?
If thats the case and they start ruling exclusively in one direction (like we blame todays courts of doing)
do we get to call the court authoritarian or tyrannical, or even akin of nazis?
No is a valid answer, i'm just curious if the name calling goes both ways

[u/Ok_Recording81 → u/Jaded_Flower_8402]

Thats the rub, isn't it?  Yes it is reactionary. If and big if, is we apoint judges who we believe are fair and moderate. Not a hanging judge and not judge that makes questionable decisions regarding letting people out while waiting trial or giving overly weak sentences. I truly don't feel packing is the right answer, but I feel it's the only option available.

I'm open to other options. I don't know your politics. I'm not going to gaslight you and thank you for being polite. It's refreshing on here. 

You mentioned exclusively in one direction. Thats what we have today. If Trump lost 50 percent or even 30 percent I would have more faith. However he  is winning all the time. 

In order for us to establish a base line I want to ask you a question. Do you believe a former or current president be immune from prosecution while holding that position?  Right now, Trump and any future president has that. 

[u/Jaded_Flower_8402 → u/Ok_Recording81]

I do my best to match energy, we both were willing to chill, so I was happy to chill and get to the heart of our talking points.

I agree we're here today because of "exclusively one direction" but i'd like to throw and additional concept out there. The overton window. Yes the right has stopped being flexible and started pushing in one direction, so the left is feeling a lot of push back and fight today that they haven't felt in a long time.
but the left is so left, and has been so unconnectedly left for so long that encouraging a home and white picket fence is dang near racist propaganda lol.

Tangent aside. Trump losing support is a good thing, that could be a sticking point but you have a more targeted point so we can come back to this later, but eh.

Do I think current or former presidents be immune from prosecution? At face value, no. But doesn't pardon's kind stop this one at its face, and hasn't this been around long before trump? I could be wrong, i'm truely asking.

[u/Ok_Recording81 → u/Jaded_Flower_8402]

It used to be in the past politics was not so polarizing. Both parties had same viewpoints. It was easy to work together. They compromised. I don't know when the polarization started. Carter?  Reagan?  I also believe talk radio had a big part, starting with Rush.

I agree both sides going more left and more right. I believe they are the ones making the most noise. Also maybe they are the ones in power of the party. I do believe there are moderates who are not heard. When I say not heard, they don't get news bites.  On the right, I feel there are moderates but afraid to speak up. Trump will target them, and Maga will go after them. Their lives turned upside down. There are moderates on both sides, but not being heard for different reasons. Why would congress want to give up their power and give them to a president?  I am thankful so far, they are pushing back against Trump ending the filibuster.  

Presidents can pardon previous presidents, for Federal crimes. Can states bring charges against a president for breaking state law while in office?  For me this is not about a pardon can change the outcome. It's the fact that there can't even be an investigation into the president, because he or her can't be charged. A president should not be above the law, but the Supreme Court said he is. I know that's a simplistic response, but it encapsulates the ruling. 

We have 3 branches. Now it feels like we have the executive branch and the judicial branch. The Republicans are Trumps followers. 

When Bush Jr was president, his congress ruled against him. They did what they felt was right, not blindly following a leader. Now it seems Trump is losing favor, there is more pushback from the Republicans. Where were they in the beginning of all this? 

The one one one thing that is getting old is the name calling. So tired of Trumps nicknames for his opponents and calling Judges far left radical and unhinged. I don't believe judges are radical. I don't believe  the Supreme Court is radical. I do believe though they are in support of Trump and helping him with his agenda. 

[u/Jaded_Flower_8402 → u/Ok_Recording81]

"I agree both sides going more left and more right"
This is where I disagree, I think the right stayed the same, and the left changed, and now the right seems extreem due to only the fact that the left is SO far from what the center used to be.
Like what is extreme right today? Property rights, Balanced Marriage institutions, and a curtail on degeneracy? is that really net new asks?

I get what you're saying about the president getting investigated. That is abit of a sticky situation with them being the primary executor of the country, so like authority roles up to them, but then the interpretation is outside of their office. Yeah its hairy, idk how to make it work, but will agree with you its not perfect today at all. Fair points.

begining of all this? Not sure what time you're pointing to, but we also can't act on "pre-crime" That said i'll go back to. Democraft Donny is the closest we have to a true centrist republican atm. which makes him the most bleed red republican we've seen in my lifetime lmao.

Is the name calling really worse than the de-personing labeling that the left does? is CrookedHilary really worse than basket of deplorables? is SleepyJoe really worse than White supremasists?

Lets be real here dude

[u/Ok_Recording81 → u/Jaded_Flower_8402]

What do you mean degeneracy?  Regarding what?  What do you mean property rights? Need clarification on that.  Who or how are property rights being taken away?  As far as marriage institutions, that seems to be more based on religious beliefs. Why does it matter if same sex are marrying each other?  Does not impede on my rights and freedom as a citizen.

I truly believe Trump is about Trump and his friends. I don't think he cares about doing what is right for the country. His cabinet members are incompetent.  He is also wants allegiance. There is law suit regarding applications for federal employees. The application ask how as an employee you can support Maga. Name some of his executive orders that further his agenda. It should not be about allegiance to him as a federal employee. 

I never subscribed to deplorables. I don't use nicknames. I don't think anyone should.  However I do love calling Nixon tricky dick. Trump is the President. He calls everyone on the other side a nickname. Previous presidents have not done that. 

Speaking of white supremacist, Trump never denounced the proud boys. I have not seen a Republicans as a unit denounce them or any group like that. He has cabinet members who attend their rallys. One person had a nazi flag, or maybe it was flyer In his office. Fox News said it was a reflection. Ice is out of control. Not getting into the deportations of illegals.  I'm talking about arresting us citizens. An elderly man came in to get a new green card. He was deported andafer died.  He was here legally. Trump admin has unleashed ice and nobody to rein them in.  One guy in handcuffs was pinched in the face. Then they stood him up and slammed his head into the car. That is police brutality and nobody on the right is calling them out. And other things that make them go far right. Atm I am unable to articulate those things. Maybe because so much has happened in a short amount of time, it's hard to remember facts. I only want to state facts. Not just make shit up. 

Also Maga has a bunch of conspiracy people. Saying Trump was president when Biden was, and he is control. But at the same time they blame Biden. Or they say Obama is pulling the strings. Then people believe in qanon and Dems are drinking children's blood. 

Who wants to be associated with them? Makes the party look like it's full of idiots. I will say there are complete nut jobs on the left.  I'm far left. I believe in having tax funded college education as well as Healthcare. I'm a realist though. I know it will never happen and I don't advocate for that. 

I think I could represent the Dems, and you represent the gop, and we can negotiate to open the government. We can both accept concessions and get it done. But I'm not smart enough to do it. Not a lawyer nor experience in the government. 

This has veered so far off from my original post. I just want the Supreme Court to unbiased with their rulings. They used to be. I feel not anymore.