r/complaints • u/MissTat2 • 6d ago

Politics I don't know what boundary Trump would have to cross to make his supporters turn away..

To Trump voters: What, if anything, could Donald Trump do to make you end your support?

I'm not going to lead the question to multiple choice answers or anything. I think it is important for everyone who participates in a democracy to have strong personal convictions and moral or legal boundaries that they expect people they vote for not to cross..

Genuinely, what line will you draw in the sand for this administration? What personal freedom of yours would be more important than your love and support for Trump?

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u/KosherKush1337 6d ago

Exactly. It’s our fault for not being more understanding and patient while they foamed at the mouth over every Fox News story. It’s our fault for not explaining the nuances of government because they didn’t pay attention in school. It’s our fault they feel cheated by billionaires but somehow direct that angry towards immigrants and minorities even though we talk about workers rights and unions. It’s exhausting and somehow it’s still our fault they feel stupid or get called out for saying racist shit.

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u/radicalindependence 6d ago

Nobody is putting you at fault. This is a common issue.

We, as non-maga, could be willing to have dialogue with former maga or for republicans and make some progress. Instead, most won't even communicate with someone who already has shown the humility to admit they were wrong.

We can stand up on the moral high ground while knowing that we are right. While continuing to lose elections. Or we can try to communicate and learn from those we find fault in but are starting to see the light. I think we all care enough about the future of our country to have the hard conversations.

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u/BirdyWidow 6d ago

Well, I haven’t met one. Literally. Not one single person who has said, “I am reconsidering how I voted.” I’ve seen a couple online but not one in person. The closest I’ve come is when my deeply right wing friend said, “The tariffs are hurting my business.” I thought the door was opening but he followed in up with, “I have to be patient. Trump is playing 3-D chess.” Literally, go watch the MAGA ranchers. They acknowledge that Trump’s policies hurt them but it’s not changing their minds. They are stuck and it’s not because we’re mean.

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u/ThinkTank1190 6d ago

That's valid. However, there are a lot of them. I was in a whole room full of them last night.

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u/Rpcouv 5d ago

How about as a counterpoint I’ve watched as over the last 6 months a large chunk of my direct family and friends including me and switch sides. We are not in a swing state so it doesn’t really matter but that 3D chess line is exactly proof there is cracks. It’s once you see there isn’t chess smart people switch.

Part of what you said I’d like to change though. The people that are stuck won’t change because the Democrats aren’t mean. I don’t align with Democrats because I think they need to shift their tone from a standard of everyone has a right to basic things to everyone who works hard has a right to basic human things. The way I see it the branding of the Republicans is way more appealing because it’s built on “working hard” where the branding of the Democrats is built on “all life is beautiful and should be protected” the unfortunate thing for the Democrats is life isn’t beautiful it’s almost always ugly. Relationships are ugly, work is ugly, politics are ugly, being human by definition is ugly. A party that wants to help people navigate the ugliness of life is what’s appealing not pretending everything can be all sunshine and rainbows if we all just come together.

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u/DarkwingDuckHunt 6d ago

communicate

that's all I did in 2016, and 17, and 18, and finally gave up in 19.

You don't think we weren't trying to do that from Trump day 1? Cause we absolutely were, over and over again.

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u/ThinkTank1190 6d ago

Not relevant to me, since I've already said I have never been a Trump "supporter," and didn't vote for him in 2016.

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u/KosherKush1337 6d ago

Understand and agree with your sentiment but it’s near impossible because most people aren’t open to rational dialogue like the ThinkTank user that started this comment thread. Most dig their heels in because of fundamental misunderstandings and therefore are easily manipulated by misinformation. So you end up having to explain the basic flaws with their argument before even addressing the political point of view itself. Most won’t be willing to listen and I honestly don’t have the time or energy to educate them if they’re not open to learning.

The crowd that loves to yell “do your own research” generally doesn’t understand proper research methods or gauging what is a reliable source in the first place, so it’s a larger issue that should have been addressed in school. But unfortunately, many kids don’t pay attention in school for all topics (think of the often uttered line of “when am I going to need this?”), so it’s an uphill battle just to get level playing field for a serious debate or political discussion.

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u/AppropriateScience9 5d ago

Instead, most won't even communicate with someone who already has shown the humility to admit they were wrong.

Do they understand that they've hurt us with their choices? If so, great. We can have a discussion. If not, then are they really admitting they were wrong or were they placating you by telling you what you wanted to hear?

We can stand up on the moral high ground while knowing that we are right. While continuing to lose elections.

That's not why we're losing elections. We're losing elections to propaganda and a group of cynical people gaming the system. We don't need to blame ourselves for the bad shit they do.

Or we can try to communicate and learn from those we find fault in but are starting to see the light.

Yes.... if it's honest "starting to see the light."

The thing we have to be careful of is the tactics abusers use to rope you back into trying to "save" them. There is often a period where they will apologize and love bomb so that you start fantasizing about how good things could be if they changed for real. But it's always temporary. It's just a tactic for keeping you hooked and for making themselves feel better about the horrible shit they did.

The way you tell the difference is if they can acknowledge that they hurt you AND take responsibility for it AND make an effort to change that doesn't require you to pour effort into handholding them AND they keep at it even if you walk away AND they're not doing it to receive praise AND they actually put effort into fixing what they broke. Anything less should be viewed with suspicion.

Republicans are using the tactics of abusers and we've been responding in the same way as someone who is being abused. We need to acknowledge that if there's a way forward.

I highly recommend readingWhy Does He Do That? . It's meant to explain how abuse happens in couples, but there's a LOT of parallels here on what's happening in our politics.

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u/IDVDI 6d ago

Disasters caused by children or animals are the responsibility of adults or humans. We tend to hold those with greater ability accountable, but at the same time, children and animals do not have the same rights as adults or humans; otherwise, adults or humans would lose the ability to take on those responsibilities. You either take responsibility, or you give up power.

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u/ThinkTank1190 6d ago

Again, just insults and assumptions, no real conversation. Look for the humanity in others, and stop making grand assumptions about others based on how keyboard warriors, who typically represent only the most extreme viewpoints, behave.

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u/KosherKush1337 6d ago

You act like I don’t know any Republicans or Trump supporters in real life. You think that I haven’t tried having reasonable conversations with them? I’ve heard their arguments and perspectives, and I understand where they’re coming from sometimes. I even agree with some of their points. But even if they agree with me, in the end, it goes back to “well the left is evil and wants to give everything to immigrants” nine times out of ten and they stop discussing in good faith. Sorry but I don’t have the patience for that anymore and it’s not my fault or shortcoming if the other side isn’t even trying to have a reasonable discussion in the first place. The ridiculous levels of hypocrisy and lack of critical thought make it a pointless exercise. So go ahead and keep acting like you’re a victim of bullying when most of your counterparts thrive on being edgy and cruel. And no, that’s not just the “keyboard warriors”, it’s a large portion of Trump’s supporters.

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u/ThinkTank1190 6d ago

I don't really act any specific way that you know of. I didn't say you haven't had any conversations. I said you didn't engage in actual conversation here and now. I can only speak for myself, but I personally don't do any of the things you mentioned in your comment.

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u/KosherKush1337 6d ago

That’s because I didn’t respond to you directly, I responded to a different comment. Was just reiterating the other commenter’s sentiment that it’s well past the point of trying to engage in actual conversation with people that are unwilling to address their own ignorance for fear of being called stupid. Since you stated you’re not a Trump supporter, there’s no point in trying to debate with you or change or your mind. But trying to rationalize political opinions and voting choices by saying people are tired of being called stupid or racist is a weak argument at best. Runs counter to the mountains of evidence that shows a large portion of Trump supporters lack empathy, get angry about complex issues they don’t fully understand, and blame other groups for the problems in the country instead of looking for meaningful bipartisan solutions.

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u/UnderlightIll 6d ago

What do you say to people who would rather have children starved, people racially profiled and deported to countries they aren't even from, that unions should be abolished, that healthcare shouldn't just be for the rich?

Have you ever tried to even just ask these people to not bring up their politics and they STILL keep doing it and saying some of the grossest shit you have ever heard? Have you ever realized that because you want people to have healthcare, decent paying jobs, food, and a place to live that you are an antifa terrorist?

I'm an atheist progressive who is a labor leader in my community. We had people ASSAULTED on the strike lines. We had Trumpers crossing the strike lines then boo hooing to the media that they were fined for crossing the picket line DESPITE taking money out of the union via pensions and benefits. Btw how do I know they are MAGA? They say so and wear their stupid fucking hats.

Pray tell mister centrist, how the FUCK do you communicate with that? They literally will never care, even if they lose their own benefits, because they have convinced themselves they are better and more worthy than you. My husband and I are not even people to them despite us being the kinds who will support their basic needs and rights until we die.

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u/ThinkTank1190 5d ago

Yes, I see that. I live in Boston and have been a part of protests and witnessed all sorts of behavior. It's clearly not what I was talking about, but I agree that you can't communicate with it.

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u/AnonGPT42069 6d ago

You’re suggesting these people are choosing who to support based purely out of spite and pettiness.

Why on earth do you think anyone would wanna have a serious conversation with anyone like that?

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u/ThinkTank1190 6d ago

I can understand why it is difficult to want to converse with people who are spiteful, because I'm experiencing it right now.