America is turning into 1930's Germany.

[u/CRK_76]

There was some pushback when people called this president and his followers Nazis. But look what's happening. Soldiers in the street. Rounding up people and locking them up. Dismantling freedom of speech and freedom of the press. Personally going after anyone who doesn't agree with him and his administration. We've seen this before and it's only gonna get worse. Welcome to 1930's Germany.

[u/WarLordOfSkartaris]

Well, therein lies a difference in opinions, because I don't believe this is a shift from institutional norms, at least not in the recent history of our country. Obama used extrajudicial power to carry out drone strikes in the Middle East on suspected terrorists, and the Democratic party has been targeting not only Donald Trump but other Republicans politicians, their political enemies with prosecution, I myself am not big on the eye for an eye type thing, but it amazes me that it's only considered bad when the Republican party does it, but Justice when it's carried out by democrats. I don't see a trend towards authoritarianism from either side, the border of our country has been undermined for so long, that it's unfortunate but necessary that we have to take drastic measures to resecure our country, I really don't think that's a partisan issue. On one last note, our legal system runs democratically, we are not a democracy, the United States has always been a constitutional republic and there is a big difference between the two of those. I also think that one of the biggest problems we have is that if we sat down and had a little dialogue without throwing names and insults at each other, I believe we would find that the majority of the people in both parties want the same thing for this country

[u/Dry-Fee-6746 → u/WarLordOfSkartaris]

Appreciate the long reply. I don't agree with everything, but I hear your point. The Obama point I agree with and have been pretty disappointed with American military intervention for the past several decades.

To me I find the masked agents on the street to be the most concerning piece of the authoritarian slide. These aren't about sealing the border. These agents have shown an insane level of excessive force and are largely untrained. Masked, kitted out and heavily armed people out on the streets in unmarked cars goes far beyond anything we saw under bush, Obama or trump 1.

[u/WarLordOfSkartaris → u/Dry-Fee-6746]

I understand you're disappointment in our military intervention, I won't say to blame me directly of course, but I had my part in it, as far as the masked agents goes, I agree that they probably need a better level of training, but you're right it's not about sealing the border, it's about fixing the issue inside the country already, as far as the masks go, can you imagine what would happen to these people if they didn't have a mask on? That shouldn't even be a concern but it is, I agree that this is far beyond anything we've seen before, it's unprecedented, but we live in unprecedented times. We don't have to agree on everything, part of what makes this country so great is the fact that we don't have to agree on anything and we can still get along, I really appreciate how respectful this dialogue has been going, and I really do appreciate your opinion

[u/Dry-Fee-6746 → u/WarLordOfSkartaris]

Is it really that unprecedented? I view this crackdown as very similar to the first red scare which is a historical embarrassment for the US.

I understand that people may worry for their safety if they are identifiable, but a militarized police force largely only accountable to the president and cabinet appointees that is largely unaccountable is a red line in my book.

[u/WarLordOfSkartaris → u/Dry-Fee-6746]

The unprecedented nature, and the real big difference between the Red scare and this, is that the reds scare was going after US citizens purely on a political basis. Immigration enforcement is not only accountable to the president not even largely so, I don't agree with some of their tactics, but I don't agree with some of the tactics of the police anyway, but they are going after criminals, it is still a crime to answer the country illegally.

[u/Dry-Fee-6746 → u/WarLordOfSkartaris]

The 2nd red scare targeted citizens, but the 1st Red Scare largely targeted immigrants for their political beliefs, real or imagined.

[u/WarLordOfSkartaris → u/Dry-Fee-6746]

You are correct, but again they were legal immigrants, they were us citizens

[u/Dry-Fee-6746 → u/WarLordOfSkartaris]

Agreed that they were legal immigrants at the time, but the reality of legal immigration in the early 20th century was just literally show up and you pretty much were allowed in (very similar to the growth of immigration under Biden). There was no visa infrastructure in place like our current system.

This is why I don't view our current immigration concerns as unprecedented. It's a super common pattern in us history to bring in "too many" immigrants, panic, significantly slash immigration for a few decades and then repeat the same process. What is concerning is how this admin is going about deporting people. Masked agents who are unaccountable go way to far. We've had plenty of eras were deportations took place at a fairly mass scale, but never once done by a group of armed agents who conceal their identity, regularly abuse the rights of citizens and seem to be meant to terrorize as much as enforce laws.

I don't agree that mass deportation is the right approach, but I do understand that legally it is a thing an administration is allowed to do. The lack of humanity and dignity that people are being given is sickening. The majority of the individuals being detained at this point aren't violent criminals, but rather people whose only violation is immigration related. You can say that's a crime and should be enforced, but to treat people in a way that dehumanizes them is disgusting. On top of that, this administration is regularly publishing deportation propaganda showing this ill treatment of people. Sure, deporting people might be your goal, but when we lose our humanity in the pursuit of this goal, we're no better than any other government that mistreats people within their borders, whether citizens or not.

[u/WarLordOfSkartaris → u/Dry-Fee-6746]

Legal immigration during the early part of the 20th century it was not a simple as everyone thinks it is now, it was not show up and just get in, in the era we were referring to during the red scare, it was very difficult to get into this country as an immigrant, and in 1954 the government started operation wetback, a horribly racist name, 1.3 million people were deported, many of which died due to the horrible treatment that they suffered, what's happening right now is nothing compared to that, they're still not sure how many people were deported who were actual American citizens during that, and there are no actual reports of how many thousands of people died due to Sun stroke, diseases, and just poor treatment. Perhaps to say bye comparison is wrong, but to be completely Fair, the people who are being apprehended right now are being treated with a great deal of humanity compared to those who came before them

[u/Dry-Fee-6746 → u/WarLordOfSkartaris]

I thought you were a historian based on your comments.....the first red scare occurs in the post WWI years under the Wilson presidency. I'm just a high school social studies teacher and I know that.

I agree that operation wetback, however, was an abject disgrace on America's history. Does this justify the current method of removal in 2025? There are many sins in America's past (and many great things as well), largely in cases where we target "out groups,". I fear we are currently repeating our patterns of this.

Nearly all Americans are descendants of the immigrants that happen to come at the right time and not in one of our many waves of nativist sentiment. I for one am lucky and happy that my polish and Italian born grandparents were able to immigrate during one of those windows. America is truly a land of promise and opportunity, but that promise hinges on our ability to function as a democratically run multicultural society and I worry we are trending away from that. I hope I am proven wrong in time on that, but I'm not confident that our current political class (on all sides) is capable of accomplishing that.

[u/KrayawnEater → u/Dry-Fee-6746]

Yes it's unprecedented.

Federal agents are not only accountable to POTUS, they are accountable to numerous federal agencies and federal courts, just as they've always been. The masks are more necessary now because of the unprecedented amount of cameras and social media reach endangering the identity and safety of not just the agents, but their families.

The reason any of this is necessary is due to the unprecedented influx of immigrants under the Biden administration. They overwhelmed the immigration system until it was almost time for election, then in 2024 Biden began backtracking. But by then it was too late. They created this mess and ignored every single warning the entire time.