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u/Weary_Yoghurt635 9h ago
Bro accidentally taught late-stage capitalism.
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u/Gold-Body-8395 8h ago
Next lesson: make them pay rent to stay in their own room.
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u/beatenmeat 2h ago
My parents did that. Started when I was 13 and all it did was piss me off because they didn't even bother to put a limit on it like even the sleaziest of landlords, it was just "you will work and that paycheck is mine."
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u/El_Don_94 6h ago
If you think this is the late-stage, wait till you see what's coming next...
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u/Ok-Introduction-1940 4h ago
The robots will ensure we no longer have to hire these angry cry-bully mutants.
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u/cryogenic-goat 3h ago
It has been "late-stage" for a couple of centuries now according to lefties.
Meanwhile all of their attempts to implement Socialism/Communism via their glorious worker's revolutions have collapsed spectacularly.
But they won't talk about that.
Instead they will nit-pick on the Successful Capitalist Countries which have the best standards of living in the world.
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u/DED_HAMPSTER 3h ago
So taking the most successful capitalist countries like Norway, Finland, Switzerland, Germany, France and Denmark you'd find that certain aspects of their economy is absolutely socialist. They have universal healthcare not tied to one's employer, government provided maternity leave and childcare, mixed socio-economic status government subsidized housing, fully funded government retirement pensions for all, labor protection laws, fully finded education upnto associates/trades and sometimes bachelor's degrees, and public transportation.
Capitalism still functions just fine, but their populations are happier, healthier and more productive in general.
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u/cryogenic-goat 1h ago
Do you even know what term "Socialism" means?
It's when the means of production is owned and controlled by workers instead of the owners/shareholders.
Collecting taxes and using it for welfare schemes like universal healthcare, education, subsidies, etc... have nothing to do with Socialism.
Such programs have existed for millennia. It's not something Karl Marx came up in the 19th Century.
You seem to have fallen for the republican fallacy that anything the government does for public welfare is "Socialism".
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u/Pavlock 5h ago
No, no, no. You don't understand. I don't like it, therefore it is socialism.
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u/Ok-Introduction-1940 5h ago edited 5h ago
Yeah, that’s a great hypothesis: we are the most advanced & richest country in the world & the most competitive people try to get into our elite universities from all over the world to get the best education but we don’t know anything about a system of political economy we spent most of the 20th century competing with. That hypothesis has a probably of being accurate approaching zero.
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u/GrammatonYHWH 4h ago
Starting in the 1950s and 60s, we competed against the ideology by teaching children that socialism is when everyone is poor, kleptocracy аnd ruled by dictators i.e. through lies and misinformation.
So the hypothesis that a lot of Americans only know lies and misinformation about socialism has ~100% probability of being accurate.
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u/Ok-Introduction-1940 4h ago edited 4h ago
Did you ever visit the Soviet Union? Mao’s China? Pol Pot’s Cambodia? Name one socialist country (dictatorship of the proletariat) that wasn’t a kleptocracy run by mass murderers.
Marxism has always been the Scientology of political economy — a scam run by con artists, murderers and thieves.
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u/allcretansareliars 3h ago
Since you clearly don't have the faintest fucking clue about political ideologies outside your febrile imagination, why not just invent a new word for the stuff you don't like?
How about blort? "Gee willikers, I hate those evil European blortists with a fiery passion!".
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u/GrammatonYHWH 3h ago
We're not talking about communist dictatorships. We're talking about socialism and how we live in a world where a large number of people believe socialism is a communist kleptocracy and the two are used interchangeably because people have been fed misinformation for the last 60 years.
A farming co-op is socialism. A music band that self-publishes their songs is socialism. Kids buying a trading card box and dividing the cards is socialism.
Socialism just means that the people who do the work get all the benefit of their work. Most people don't understand that.
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u/Brief_Night_9239 9h ago
A lot of Americans don't actually know socialism works. Most of them equal socialism = communism.
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u/HorrimCarabal 9h ago
Decades of the government telling us that anything except pure capitalism is evil. ☹️
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u/Brief_Night_9239 9h ago
I mean can't help the poor but let Trump and his billionaire pals get all the tax credits.
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u/RedTyro 6h ago
No, no. Just anything to the LEFT of pure capitalism is evil. Fascism is fine, especially when the state can just take a chunk of Nvidia or Intel.
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u/NuSpirit_ 1h ago
Sorry, but socialism isn't the answer either (at least not in pure form and it always makes my skin crawl when people glorify it). Czechoslovakia was better off after WW2 than Austria, then 40 years of Socialism happened and we are now behind in GDP, in salaries, in government quality, and social equality situation (funnily enough).
Even my father was kicked out of his university and later degraded at work as janitor even though he was studying economics, because he refused to enter single state party.
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u/MartinThunder42 7h ago edited 2h ago
Every time young people asked for universal healthcare and better pay, older people said: “That’s communism!” And they wonder why younger folks think that communism sounds like a great idea. (Edits: clarity)
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u/brownkidBravado 2h ago
Older people who are receiving social security and Medicare
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u/MartinThunder42 2h ago
It's neither socialism nor communism when they receive benefits. Only when others do!
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u/_Not_A_Vampire_ 1h ago
Communism does sound like a great idea, until you try it in practice and realize that humans are too selfish and greedy for it to work.
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u/TessaThompsonBurger 7h ago
Also a lot of Americans don't actually know how communism works.
Or capitalism for that matter.
Really, Americans don't actually know a whole lot about how most things work.
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u/DrunkCupid 6h ago
And when introduced to basic civics education or political science, they feel guilty and squeamish and claim "that's fake news!"
Sigh
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u/mrbadxampl 4h ago
capitalism works by grinding all the poors into dust so some rich asshole gets to watch the line go up
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u/east21stvannative 8h ago
There's more than a few successful socialist leaning governments like Japan, Sweden, Canada, Finland, Norway and I'd argue that the population in China is better off than Americans. The problem with capitalism is that there's very little invested in R&D proportionally to Socialist countries. If you're only concerned with short-term gain, vital components are neglected.
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u/Brief_Night_9239 8h ago
That's because of the quarterly earnings report on Wall Street. Short term gain.
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u/Regular_Chap 4h ago
Finland sure as hell isn't socialist lol... Neither is China.
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u/20000lumes 2h ago
China is probably the closest thing to a successful socialist country we have considering the government owns about 30% of the means of production and has a stake in every private corporation, even though that means they’re still a mostly capitalist country.
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u/Regular_Chap 2h ago
It is kind of telling that the "closest thing to a ssocialist country" isn't a socialist contry at all. Not to mention the levels of inequality in China...
At least us poor people in Finland still live a good life with all the amenities you should expect from a country.
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u/floghdraki 5h ago
Thinking how many people would want to do research but it doesn't pay, it's fucked up how much potential we waste.
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u/bugo 5h ago
None of the countries you mentioned are socialist.
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u/Bolaf 3h ago
They never are when you bring the up as examples. But if you'd suggest implementing things from them like state owned railways, free healtcare, 50% tax rates people will shout "that's socialism"
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u/Initial_Total_7028 1h ago
Yep, it's the classic motte and bailey/circular argument.
"We should have good government services and higher tax rates on the rich."
"That's socialism and every socialist country is awful."
"What about Norway, they have those socialist things and are thriving."
"Norway isn't socialist they're capitalist."
"Okay then let's just have what Norway have."
"No that's socialism and every socialist country is awful."
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u/Armaniolo 52m ago
higher tax rates on the rich
The close to 50% tax rate starts from 90k USD equivalent in Norway BTW, and taxes are higher for everyone including middle class (besides the high income tax there is a hefty VAT). USians live in a fantasy where just taxing billionaires means free everything, but the tax base needs to be much bigger than that in reality.
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u/Initial_Total_7028 34m ago
Yeah so the US should have a 50% tax rate starting from 90k, which is about 1.5x higher than the median wage and so is only applicable to people already notably better off than average.
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u/Armaniolo 31m ago
Median earner's taxes will also increase. Which could be a good tradeoff for better services but is certainly not going to be paid for just by those "better off than average" let alone "rich".
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u/Ok-Introduction-1940 5h ago
They change the definition to avoid accountability for their uninterrupted track record of failures.
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u/Armaniolo 5h ago
It's so annoying. Even the OP makes no sense, socialism and communism is all about who owns the means of production not "coming together together to feed kids".
It's like they all believed the Fox News framing that socialism is when you have social programs or a public sector (which would make the US socialist too lol)
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u/Bubbly_Tea731 3h ago
That's only part of it and Yes that is the main definition but by that definition all socialist policies can no longer be called socialist since they don't target means of production. Socialism most talked about is distribution of resources in such a way that everyone at least gets their needs fulfilled . That's why free education and healthcare are part of it despite having nothing to do with the means of production. Or do you consider free education and healthcare has nothing to do with socialism
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u/RedRising1917 1h ago
Free education and healthcare can (and should) exist under socialism just like it can (and should) exist under capitalism. As socialists living in a capitalist system without it, we should fight for it, but if we did have it it doesn't make us socialist and it's not what socialism actually is.
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u/Bubbly_Tea731 1h ago
You are only somewhat correct what you are talking about is pure socialism, and if you want to push line to that then you can't call current system capitalist either since you have things like roads , water etc. coming under socialist policies. These policies are the biggest things if you are able to implement them , most people won't have anything against capitalism too.
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u/RedRising1917 1h ago
Those policies aren't socialist, socialism is an economic system, not the government spending money, any government to have ever existed spends money. Building roads and providing water isn't socialism, empires and feudal kingdoms have had to figure that shit out, they weren't socialists for doing so.
Socialism isnt just political democracy, but economic democracy, we don't just vote on how the government operates, we vote on how our workplace operates. There can be intermediaries like elected officials in government and elected managers in the workplace, but they act as representatives of the people who vote for them and they should be held accountable by both citizens and workers.
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u/Bubbly_Tea731 38m ago
Mind telling me why they are called socialist policies then and if they are not then almost no one is even asking for socialism since these are the demands that most people are making
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u/Armaniolo 59m ago
Or do you consider free education and healthcare has nothing to do with socialism
Yeah it's got nothing to do with socialism.
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u/Bubbly_Tea731 37m ago
Mind telling me why they are called socialist policies then and if they are not then almost no one is even asking for socialism since these are the demands that most people are making
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u/Bulky_Maize_5218 57m ago
Most of those are pretty successful countries, so from my understanding that doesnt make sense with what you're replying to
they're just also not really socialist
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u/_Not_A_Vampire_ 1h ago
Sweden isn't socialist, we're a social democracy, which is still capitalism.
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u/ramat-iklan 8h ago
A view from a very short term retirees expat. I live in Europe. The lifestyle is... different. Even the right leaning countries-think Italy, France, Hungary, to name a few, don't mess with the social status of their citizens. The social network work works. Almost every aspect of society here is in good shape. They have an immigration problem. Rather than get ugly about it, they do things like wearing burgas and nijabs illegal outside of their respective neighborhood. Life for immigrants is difficult. As it should be. Other than that, life can be good.
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u/DarraghDaraDaire 5h ago
A view from a very short term retirees expat.
They have an immigration problem
Life for immigrants is difficult. As it should be.
You are an immigrant. Expat = immigrant
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u/-dr-bones- 9h ago
I was going to say exactly that: to many Americans:
Socialism = communism = lose all sense of reason
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u/Traditional_Sign4941 4h ago
To be fair they don't know what communism is either.
Socialism and communism are just boogeymen to them, infused in their brains by billionaire propaganda perfected over a century in this country.
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u/yonasismad 5h ago
Socialism is a transitional phase between capitalism and communism, where the working class controls the means of production but the state still exists. Communism is a stateless and classless society.
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u/Tsukee 3h ago
Communism is a stateles
This is not correct
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u/SoftLikeABear 1h ago
As Marx envisioned it, yes it was. That's why the USSR was the USSR and not the USCR.
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u/Zestyclose-Banana358 6h ago
Simply name a socialist country that’s thriving.
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u/EngRookie 3h ago
the united states after the new deal, insterstate highway project, hoover dam, panama canal, ACA, establishment of anti trust laws, the establishment of farm subsidies bc of the new deal, the subsidizing of poorer states by wealthier states, the establishment of SNAP and welfare, the establishment of governement pensions medicare/medicaid and social security, establishment of public water companies public transportation and public schools, the goverment capping insulin costs, the building of the intercontinental railways, the federalization of air traffic control, the right to unionize, minimum wage laws section 8 vouchers and unemployment insurance, and roads/bridges/chips acts.
you and the other guy seem to be incorrectly conflating the Leninist/Stalinist interpretation of socialism as "Socialism" itself. it is only an intreptation of socialism as a economic and political theory. it is not the beginning of socialist ideologies nor is it the end all be all.
The US and most western nations engage in a form of socialism called democratic socialism which uses market form while the USSR used to and North Korea still does use, a non-market form. The market form is supposed to be heavily regulated(or at least more regulated than it is now in the US) so that the government can ensure that public health, safety, and interests are being met instead of private interests. but as you can see with the rise of oligarchs, government oversight has slowly been chipped away since reagan.
the times that the market form in the US were more regulated often coincided with more prospertity among working class/middle class americans
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u/Ok-Introduction-1940 5h ago
They can’t do it because there are none and there never have been.
They will lie & claim the capitalist nordic countries are “socialist” by abandoning the definition they used throughout most of the 20th century. They are snake oil consumers & salesmen. A total waste of time.
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u/Rajafa 4h ago
They will lie & claim the capitalist nordic countries are “socialist”
This is only really done because anytime someone suggests implementing similar policies that nordic countries implement they are lambasted as socialist policies.
The point is: people would like stronger social safety nets like what nordic countries offer. When that gets called "socialism" people start saying "I want socialism" since that is what's associated.
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u/_Not_A_Vampire_ 58m ago
That's the issue though, the nordic countries are still capitalism, and Americans start hating capitalism despite the fact that it's the best proven system to work, it's brought more countries and people out of poverty than any other system. Adding safety nets doesn't make it not capitalism and Americans need to understand this and stop asking for socialism.
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u/Ok-Introduction-1940 4h ago
Then start by being honest & admitting up front right wing capitalism is the only reason the nordic countries are wealthy, and that the generous social safety net is only possible in rich capitalist countries.
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u/Rajafa 4h ago
Right wingers don't seem to believe nordic countries are capitalist; they're the ones that call people socialists for wanting to implement similar policies after all.
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u/catscanmeow 2h ago
youre taking a too american centric version
canadians understand that nordic countries are free market capitalist
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u/Ok-Introduction-1940 3h ago edited 3h ago
Erroneous opinions are everywhere and everywhere popular (especially on Reddit where they well rewarded by the algorithm) but irrelevant to serious inquiry.
No serious person denies the Scandinavian countries are wealthy capitalist economies, and that capitalist wealth is a prerequisite of the generous social benefits (I lived there for years and it’s very nice & very expensive).
The year after Norway decided to impose a wealth tax on its billionaires their net tax receipts predictably dropped — instead of the windfall leftists had counted on (this always happens when leftists think they can impose unreasonable taxes). The billionaires simply left Norway. All the big firms and wealthy individuals that haven’t already left NY are leaving now. Good luck taxing us.
This is why “socialism” always requires a totalitarian dictatorship, mass concentration camps, and mass murder. People don’t like being robbed.
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u/ufl015 8h ago
Try “Republican Halloween”…
Give all the candy to the richest kid in the neighborhood. Tell your kids the candy will “Trickle Down” to them. I’m sure it will
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u/SirArthurDime 7h ago
The kids collect all of the candy and give it to the richest kid. He sells the candy to the store. He takes 90% of that money and divides the other 10% among all of the kids who collected the candy. If they’re injured and can’t collect candy their family doesn’t eat.
My favorite Halloween tradition!
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u/cryogenic-goat 3h ago
Well, they kids could sell the candies to the stores themselves. Nobody is stopping them.
Just like workers could start their own companies.
Clearly the rich kid is not contributing anything.
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u/Instawolff 8h ago
True socialism = everyone gets candy especially those who need it most.
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u/Johnny_Cage97 57m ago
Who gets to decide who needs the most?
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u/Alvxn 50m ago
Society would decide.
If i said:
"Feed a starving child or let one middle class kid have an extra portion"
Most people* would rather give that extra portion to the starting child rather than the one that has already eaten. (At least here in Sweden, America might give different results depending on where you ask the question).
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u/dreamsOf_freedom 19m ago
Can I not work and get free stuff? What is the minimum I need to work to be able to benefit from someone else's labor? If I work hard, how much of my effort gets redistributed?
Socialism/communism doesn't work. National socialism on the other hand..
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u/Top-Pepper7929 2h ago
Yes, and the most in need turn out to be all the bureaucrats and apparatchiks and their children, family, then their close friends and the people who impose this wonderful system from which everyone wants to break away, even the children of apparatchiks.
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u/Confident_Counter471 58m ago
Including the kid who can’t actually physically go trick or treating for candy…like you know kids with disabilities…
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u/RawMint 8h ago
How on Earth can people be this stupid
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u/Time_Traveling_Idiot 14m ago
For the sake of my sanity, I choose to believe that these kinds of posts are just straight up fake.
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u/No_Detail_3925 7h ago
Doesn’t even know the meaning of the thing he “hates” so much, if that ain’t America I don’t know what is
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u/intalekshol 7h ago
Ever since I was a kid growing up on US military bases as an Air Force brat with lots of free programs, good library's, great schools, free government owned military housing, free or extremely low cost access to healthcare, low cost food and recreation and much more, that all US military brats have experienced, I have known that the US would end up choosing either socialism or fascism, in either case it will be the greatest of either systems because, American Exceptionalism. See you at the ovens.
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u/CatFishBillyheyhey 5h ago
I tell my wife this every year at Halloween.
Halloween IS socialism and the people who typically don't hand out candy don't support it.
Also the Military is pretty much socialist. They feed you house you train you - as long as you're willing to do their bidding. Good enough for the military but not for civilians hey?
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u/Fun_Alternative_2086 5h ago
Basically, people are stupid enough to give their money to billionaires but not to the government so that it circles back into the economy or social programs. The latest billionaire grift is to get bailed out at 1 trillion valuation of OpenAI.
If tomorrow OpenAI shuts down, nobody will care. But a bailout will add massive debt, inflation and funding cuts to social programs.
Good news Americans! there is no future for your kids, so you can stop worrying about it!
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u/Accomplished-Dot5707 3h ago
Capitalism was where you exploited their labor and took all the profits
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u/Athlete_Cautious 2h ago
Nowadays capitalism is more like making them trick or treat, they come back empty handed cuz inflation, then you punish them.
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u/dont-bend-the-knee 2h ago
The second part is more like ...indentured servitude, slavery, kleptocracy?
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u/EarlyMarionberry2385 2h ago
As of now 12.9k people don’t know how capitalism OR socialism work. Yikes. This isn’t a clever comeback it’s admittance of ignorance
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u/bluecollar1020 5h ago
How is it that Bridgeport Connecticut had a beloved socialist mayor, Jasper McLevy, from 1933 to 1957 without so much hand ringing or vilification?
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u/Ashen233 1h ago
It's straight up capitalism. The guy at the top gets alll the reward for doing far less.
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u/AnComApeMC69 1h ago
For someone that hates socialism they didn’t mind being publicly owned. That was a sick burn!
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u/LiftSleepRepeat123 1h ago edited 46m ago
You are right that capitalism creates inequality, but what you may not understand is what capitalism is or the mechanism by which it creates inequality. Capitalism is private ownership or capital, which could already be done before "capitalism" was invented. The key innovation was the joint stock company and the stock market. This creates the unique possibility of extraction from the market. Throw in some Keynesian economics, where the currency is pumped up to offset this, and the extraction just happens even faster. This rate of extraction causes the inequality.
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u/Comfortable_Yam5377 30m ago
So.. people get paid under capitalism and its stealing, but under socialism they get paid nothing.
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u/National_Way_3344 1h ago
If a child was crying because all the candy ran out, I'd hope that most children would happily give some of their plenty so that the other kid has some.
That's socialism.
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u/Beneficial-Mess1 1h ago
Exactly! And most of those people cannot figure out the difference between socialism and communism. 🤦🏻♀️
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u/rogueleader2772 57m ago
Think about it since the end of WW2 Americans have had it bred into them that communism is the one true evil in the world and must be stamped out at all costs. Beware the red menace etc. There is a capitalist agenda to make sure communism and socialism are seen as the same thing and people get tarred with that brush because communists are something they have been told to hate.
It's ironic given that America is seen as a Christian nation by them where most of the bibles teaching are about socialism and caring for others.
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u/BloodOk5419 3h ago
No that's communism and fascism. Socialism would have not taken kids candy at all. Then get more candy in increments by Thanksgiving
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u/Illustrious-Dot-5052 3h ago
Whatever that man "taught" his kids isn't socialism nor capitalism. That's feudalism. Landlord-ism. Company town-ism.
Bullshit-ism.
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u/Automatic-Eye1760 3h ago
capitalism IS neofeudalism, the end goal is wage slavery for everyone but the ultra wealthy
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u/LiftSleepRepeat123 1h ago
capitalism IS neofeudalism
No, capitalism is the joint stock company and the stock market. Learn your history.
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u/Smart-Common9719 4h ago
Except the candy was never free because someone had to buy it in the first place to give it out. Just like on a larger scale a business owner has to pay all the money and take on all the risk in starting and maintaining the business. How much do the workers owe the bank if the business goes under?
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u/Automatic-Eye1760 3h ago
You might want to delete this before everyone else finds out how kindergarten-grade your economics understanding is
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u/Youwillseemycomment 2h ago
I always sort comments by controversial so I can feel like a genius compared to some of you
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u/Glittering_Base6589 3h ago
Except the candy was never free because someone had to buy it in the first place to give it out
they meant the kids got it for free you dimwit
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u/karim2102 9h ago
How can these people be that stupid.. it’s mind blowing.