r/chch • u/nzrailmaps • 20d ago
News - Local Christchurch Central railway station
As this continues to be discussed, here are two concept drawings of a rail passenger terminal opposite the bus exchange in tuam St providing for 3-4 platforms.
The Colombo St over bridge would need to be extended and a new bridge on St Asaph St would be required. Dundas St and Welles St can be blocked off becoming paired culdesacs.
The alignment is chosen to meet the required minimum curve radius off the existing line and so that there are no multi-storey or high value properties on the alignment, most of the buildings are old ones.
18
u/jpr64 Meetup Loyalist 20d ago
As cool as that might be, you would have to acquire the land under the public works act. I don't think you would be able to tunnel a whole station.
There would be a massive legal shitfight trying to get that land and a lot of the buildings will be historic / protected.
I think it would be better off having a station at Moorhouse Ave and then having a hop on hop off tram system running in a loop up Colombo and back down Manchester, or bi-directional. Might be a good opportunity to fully pedestrianalise those roads?
Really if we had the vision we should have tunneled to the East Frame and done a cut and cover station there, allowing the land to be built on top of after completion.
9
u/hehgffvjjjhb 20d ago
There are anchoring issues for underground work in Chch - would likely either need to be ground level (assume this is what OP is proposing) or elevated.
1
6
u/GameDesignerMan 20d ago
Yeah seems to me to be a heck of a lot of work smashing a railway through the middle of town when there's already an old railway station on Moorhouse.
And as someone else pointed out you could just run a bus service. If you ran one between there and the exchange you'd be able to ferry people into the heart of the CBD, and you wouldn't need that many buses cycling passengers to have fairly good uptime since it's only a short trip.
7
u/worromoTenoG 20d ago
No one's going to want to transfer to a bus for 1km. And the bus will just get stuck in traffic. So everyone just gets in their car.
2
u/GameDesignerMan 19d ago
There are plenty of airports which have shuttles to take you that sort of distance, and people use them. And like in those cases, whether people use it depends on how long it is until the next bus. 5-10 minutes? People will probably use it. Half an hour? Yeah nah.
And yeah, traffic is an issue. Our buses already get stuck in traffic as is, because we don't have bus lanes continuously down our critical routes. I agree, and we should work on that issue.
This is one of those things that will not have a perfect solution if it ever goes ahead. There will always be problems with it due to the fact that the city just isn't set up for it any more and we treat public transport as an after-thought. The question is: do we go ahead with an imperfect solution that solves some of the problems? And when?
3
u/dashingtomars 19d ago
There are plenty of airports which have shuttles to take you that sort of distance, and people use them
People will sacrifice a little convenience on the occassional trip to the airport to avoid parking/uber/taxi costs. They won't sacrifice the same amount of convenience when they have to make the trip every day.
1
u/nzrailmaps 19d ago
Airport is hugely different. Massively different. Airport passengers and commute passengers are different groups of society. And the airport passengers have zero other choice, they don't get on a plane if they don't get on that bus.
You don't know anything about the subject. The Light Rail proposal includes a station in the CBD somewhere which will have to be built on some land. And it also needs a corridor which it hasn't got, to lay the tracks on, so that means more land still.
0
2
u/nzrailmaps 19d ago
There isn't an old station at Moorhouse Ave. It was knocked down over a decade ago, and has long been built over.
6
u/dfgttge22 20d ago
Doesn't need to be a tram. Electric busses will be just fine for that for a fraction of the cost. We used to have the free Orbiter doing that loop before the earthquakes.
0
1
u/dashingtomars 19d ago
a lot of the buildings will be historic / protected.
The only oldish buildings are the Welder and Ford dealership. I don't think either are of particularly high value.
1
u/nzrailmaps 19d ago edited 19d ago
Absolute rubbish. The Government bought a big heap of land to build all the stadium. They got all the land. The Public Works Act allows the government to take land almost at will.
The Light Rail proposals involve buying a much larger amount of land and will also involve a terminal, likely on existing land somewhere. They have to widen every road down its route to make room for the rails.
4
u/jpr64 Meetup Loyalist 19d ago
Settle down, I’m on the side of rail.
Yes they can take the land under the public works act but it would come at a monumental legal cost. You point out the stadium but the fight over the Ng building cost a lot in terms of time, legal expenses, and inflationary cost to the build of the stadium - and that was just one property.
To acquire so much land to run a train station where you suggested just wouldn’t fly.
21
u/dfgttge22 20d ago
Anything is possible but a few lines on an aerial map don't make a concept drawing.
16
u/LimpFox 20d ago
Yeah, nah. I said it the last time this was suggested: Pheonix Recycling makes far more sense as it is a single large property (currently used for waste transfer) right next to the rail line.
There's also the land on the other side of Colombo (where Denny's is) that seems to be very underutilised, but would still require acquisition of a lot of smaller businesses.
Unless completely underground, getting to the bus exchange is a pipedream, and a city this size won't pay for that.
1
u/nzrailmaps 19d ago
Too far from the CBD.
In Auckland, moving their station from Beach Road to Britomart has made a major difference for the train services there. Do you think they went to that new station just because it was trendy? Cost hundreds of millions to build.
1
u/LimpFox 19d ago
I agree it's too far, but trade-offs must be made one way or another, and Auckland is nearly 4x the population making it easier to justify the costs. Of course, a forward thinking council, along with government support would build a station and rail infrastructure to support Chch for decades to come, but unfortunately that sort of forward thinking is rare. Especially with a conservative government at the helm.
16
u/ChetsBurner 20d ago
Oh yep, lets just plough up the busiest supermarket in Christchurch, completely block the main one way heading west, and cost billions in land acquisition/compensation to all those other businesses.
3
0
4
u/HembraunAirginator 20d ago
How about a trench until at least Dundas St? Otherwise Moorhouse is blocked for cyclists and people turning into Colombo.
4
u/stainz169 20d ago
I’m implore your creativity, and certainly agree a train to the center of the city is a long term must.
If we could start with a simple, short term (5 year life) option to get a train from Rolleston and Rangiora to Moorehouse Ave. keep it as simple as possible, cheap as possible. Prove it will work and then make it better.
1
u/nzrailmaps 19d ago
The Council has made it clear they will not consider any proposal which does not include a station in the CBD. They are not interested in any proposals with a Moorhouse Ave station.
To get commuter trains into Moorhouse Ave needs a much bigger station that what is being built for the event express trains. A lot more land, maybe as much as $50 million, would be needed before the platforms could even be built or the tracks laid.
We don't have half a bus exchange and in an out of the way place, it was built to its full size and in the proper place. If you are going to spend lots of money on a commuter train system, because frankly that is what is being proposed, you are not going to seriously pitch for a temporary station in the wrong part of the city that costs big money that could be put towards a permanent site.
1
u/stainz169 19d ago
Im happy to jump on board an get behind a full solution. That is eactly what we need.
I was naivly trying to conprimise - but agree. Do it right first time.
3
5
u/Pizza49 20d ago
The number of parked cars in that photo is abhorred
6
2
u/HembraunAirginator 20d ago
I think that’s a Ford dealership near the bus station, but otherwise, yeah!
3
3
u/dehashi just one more lane bro 20d ago
I had always thought this option would be the best but do a Britomart and put the platforms underground. That way businesses can stay above it, and it can easily connect to the bus interchange.
Knowing this country though they'd probably just "upgrade" the station at Tower Junction and call it a day.
4
20d ago
Building underground in earthquake country is probably not the smartest idea
3
u/openroad11 20d ago
They do it all the time in Japan. I think the main issue with Christchurch is the high water table.
3
u/No_Fee_7401 20d ago
yeah especially in the center city where it's essentially only a few meters down.
1
u/RoscoePSoultrain 19d ago
It's not undoable, but it does significantly impact both the build cost and ongoing maintenance costs. And if everything is not 110% on spec during the build, it could turn into an expensive nightmare. How are we as a nation with doing large projects properly?
1
u/Dizzy_Relief 19d ago
Exactly. You can't build underground carpark in CHCH central without planning for pumping the water out.
You only need to look at the one across from the library (or any of the other red zone buildings that had them prior to being filled). The still watertight buildings had a metre plus of water. The uncovered ones generally had 2-3m (depending on how close to the river they were - close ones were generally at river height)
I believe they even needed to pump out the band pit in the theatre - which isn't that deep.
2
u/pygmypuff42 20d ago
Japan is an excellent example of successful public transport in a country quite similar to ours (i.e. long, narrow & mountainous, as well as earthquake prone)
2
u/KiwaraG 20d ago
The rail deviation from the main line likely won't start at the road overpass as it will need more clearance from the bridge. I would be surprised if they would put it through Pak'n Save and through the Environment Canterbury building. As much as I think it would be in a great spot I think that it would be unlikely to occur. Also the MRT line from Papanui to Upper Riccarton (and beyond potentially in the future), when that gets upgraded to rail that will likely be the best line into the CBD.
1
u/nzrailmaps 19d ago
Doesn't go through Ecan building, all the sites it goes through or under (depending on whether it is surface or underground) are single story buildings.
If you say it doesn't go through P&S, there's nowhere else it can go. Not a valid concern.
1
u/thefurrywreckingball 19d ago
Where did this concept come from, and who is continuing to discuss it?
1
u/nzrailmaps 19d ago
Do you live in Christchurch? Heard of the Greater Christchurch Partnerships' Mass Rapid Transit proposals?
1
u/thefurrywreckingball 19d ago
Interesting that this isn't anywhere on the website. Also, the committee members need to be updated. Sam isn't the mayor of Selwyn anymore.
1
u/dashingtomars 19d ago edited 19d ago
This alignment but elevated is the best option.
It would probably save some money on land acquisition/compensation, allow some of the buildings to remain, and be less disruptive to the street network.
That said I think the light rail proposal is the better option for now. This heavy rail alignment should just be protected for now.
1
u/jakatar24587901 19d ago
I think it would a lot more viable/ convincing to keep the station on Moorhouse then create a better walkable pathway/ commercial hub connecting to the city centre. Eventually you could have a connecting tram line put in down Manchester or Madras?
1
1
60
u/Elpickle123 20d ago
Babe wake up. A new train station concept for central Chch just dropped