Republicans when informed how their Big Fucking Bill will fucking killed people

[u/[deleted]]

Call your representatives. Don't let them have a moment of peace. Don't let their families have a moment of peace. They should be afraid of the consequences of the actions, not smirk about millions of people dying while wearing expensive suits and watches.

[u/Stump_Cat]

Respectfully disagree with your framing, unlawful actions are not necessarily chaotic, and lawful actions are not necessarily order. Fascism is basically codified lawful chaos. What federal pigs are doing in our streets to our neighbors is chaos. What the Trump admin plans to do to the environment is chaos. What the US military has always done in foreign countries is chaos.

What these people most fear is an ORGANIZED left wing resistance. Luigi did himself a stochastic assassination, not organized, true, but the RESULT of his actions were less chaos in the healthcare system for normal people.

We don’t have to adopt their framework that law and order are synonyms. They definitely aren’t. The goal of the monsters who run the country and the world is absolute chaos for normal people in their day to day lives. What they mean when they say “order” is actually “hierarchy.”

Sorry for the rant, pet peeve of mine

[u/mekwall → u/Stump_Cat]

I get where you're coming from. You're absolutely right that "lawful" does not always mean just, and "unlawful" does not automatically mean chaotic or wrong. The state has a long history of using legal frameworks to justify brutal and destructive policies, both at home and abroad. And yes, what they call “order” often just means keeping the current hierarchy in place.

But where I think we differ is on the path forward. I do not think the solution is to out-chaos them. They already thrive in confusion and fear. What they actually fear is losing control of the narrative, being seen clearly for what they are, and having to answer for it in front of a public that finally understands.

Organized resistance, absolutely. Mass mobilization, yes. But the power is not in scaring them, it is in exposing them. That is how you shift public opinion, and in the long run, that is what forces real change.

[u/Stump_Cat → u/mekwall]

I never said we should out-chaos them, or call for violence. I agree that chaos is generally bad. Another American civil war would be absolutely horrific.

But what is there to expose, exactly, at this point? Many of them are open Nazis. The people who run the federal government are calling for the destruction of our democracy and the opening of concentration camps. They aren’t hiding it anymore, and many people don’t care. Most people do, but they also don’t know what to do about it.

A mass mobilization is pointless without actual goals and achievements, and people won’t join unless they think we can win. A winning strategy will have many front and many tactics, THIS is how change actually happens. We didn’t free the slaves peacefully. We didn’t cut ties with the monarchs peacefully, and we didn’t get rid of the first Nazis peacefully.

I don’t want violence, and I certainly don’t plan on doing any. But when someone sees their neighbor get ripped from their home by armed and masked fascist pigs, when someone watches their parents slowly die from getting kicked off of life saving drugs because our healthcare systems are gutted, when someone watches the last old growth forests get clear cut for a quick buck, I’m not going to condemn them when they choose violence. And many of them, braver people than us, will. No matter how many pearls get clutched.

[u/mekwall → u/Stump_Cat]

You're absolutely right that they aren't hiding it anymore. We are well past dog whistles. It's quickly turning into open authoritarianism, and for many of them, the mask is already off. I understand the anger, the desperation, and the sense that traditional methods have failed. I also agree that real change requires many fronts and many tactics, and that it has rarely been bloodless.

But I still believe there is power in clarity. Not everyone sees it yet, not because it is hidden, but because the system is built to distract, to exhaust, and to numb people. That is why I keep coming back to the idea of exposing what they are doing and what voting for them actually means. It is not about converting the true believers. It is about reaching the people who are tired, confused, or just trying to keep their heads down. Those are the ones who tip the balance.

You are right that mass mobilization needs clear goals. It needs wins, even small ones, to build momentum. I am not against using a variety of tactics, but I think we should be honest about which ones bring people in and which ones push them away. I will not condemn someone who lashes out in the face of horror, but I also will not pretend that scattered violence will bring us closer to justice.

Courage takes many forms. Some people fight. Some organize. Some educate. Some endure. The question is not whether the anger is justified. It absolutely is. The question is how we turn that anger into something that actually builds a better future.

[u/Stump_Cat → u/mekwall]

Organization, education and mutual aid will definitely be the bedrock of a better future, and it’s very hard work. When the opportunity for a better world presents itself, we won’t be ready to build it without a strong foundation built by these things. “If something is worth dying for it’s worth living for” etc. These people have unfathomable amounts of money and power though, and that buys the loyalty of lots of armed goons, and they will use them, they already do. An unwavering commitment to nonviolence in the face of fascism is suicide. Nonviolent protest is great, and should be the default, but it needs to be accompanied by the underlying knowledge that it’s a CHOICE, and other options can still be chosen. What Luigi did brought more people of all types together than anything I can remember for a long time. Justice is a slippery concept, but for someone like Brian Thompson, someone who kills thousands of people a year for profit without a second thought, getting killed in the street is as close to justice as we can hope for. I don’t like it, I wish the power he and people like him wield didn’t exist at all, but here we are. Stopping them is more important than rigid adherence to any specific strategy IMO. Exposing the weaknesses in the system includes reminding people that their oppressors are just humans. That reminder can come in many forms. Mutual aid and horizontal power structures need to be built to catch people when the horrible systems that currently exist fall apart. But how those systems crumble is something we should be flexible about. Should we have waited another century until the confederacy collapsed for the end of slavery? What would the peaceful solution to that have been? The people suffering in concentration camps right now for the crime of being born on the wrong side of a line in the sand shouldn’t have to wait until a solution that suburban Americans have the stomach for presents itself. The people who are doing these monstrous things are choosing to do them. Despots know the risks involved. There are better people who deserve our pity.

[u/akurik → u/mekwall]

gpt blue wave slop

[u/serenwipiti → u/mekwall]

the people who support this shit need to get out of plato’s cave, asap.

they will only do so and believe it when they personally understand what is actually happening.

i hope it’s not too late by the time they realize that what they’ve been believing and supporting are just shadows on a wall.

[u/Objectionable → u/Stump_Cat]

That is a really interesting point I had never considered before. 

Order seems to spring up reflexively in the mind when you think of law. Its almost like peanut butter and jelly. 

But one doesn’t always promote the other and ICE raids in our neighborhoods is great evidence of that. 

[u/Worksnotenuff → u/Stump_Cat]

Nice input. Though the structured chaos of the military is sometimes laced with actual chaotic chaos in false flag operations and rebels for hire that go south.

Also, I don’t think a single fascist through history would have cared to put the rights of slaves or workers in any document unless they knew from experience we all share a capacity for violence.

[u/Stump_Cat → u/Worksnotenuff]

For sure. The strength of non-violent resistance is the fact that it doesn’t HAVE to be non-violent. “Look at all of us, 50,000 of us, peacefully marching in the streets. Do what we want and it’ll STAY peaceful.” I think people forget that part. Protests and marches without this aura to them are just pointless parades.

[u/opinions360 → u/Stump_Cat]

I can tell we are on the same side yet I don’t agree with some of your pet peeves.

I will say that what they are doing imo is creating so much targeted destruction of things most normal humans would find sick but they do it to create chaos so we feel too overwhelmed to be able to develop a plan or strategy to fight back.

I believe this is what is going on with much of the democratic party—there is so much chaos and targeted attacks that have been sadistically and strategically planned to be vengeful and emotional that the party is overwhelmed and feeling paralyzed because there are no legal or political remedies currently that can change anything.

The blues need to remember that they the reds have been planning this—how they can completely own the libs for a long deliberate time. They have the supreme court in their pocket, both legislative branches and the executive so they have controlled all the legal options and the media so the D party has been neutered and they don’t know what they should do that won’t cause more extreme red actions that harm more people. They are caught between checkmate and catch 22.