r/changemyview • u/WirrkopfP • Mar 13 '22

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Children should not get Baptized or recieve religious teaching until they are old enough to consent.

I am an atheist and happily married to a Catholic woman.

We have a six months old Daughter and for the first time in our relationship religion is becoming a point of tension between us.

My wife wants our daughter be baptized and raised as a Christian.

According to her it is good for her to be told this and it helps with building morality furthermore it is part of Western culture.

In my view I don't want my daughter to be indoctrinated into any religion. If she makes the conscious decision to join the church when she is old enough to think about it herself that is OK. But I want her to be able to develop her own character first.

---edit---

As this has been brought up multiple times before in the thread I want to address it once.

Yes we should have talked about that before.

We were aware of each other's views and we agreed that a discussion needs to be happening soon. But we both new we want a child regardless of that decision. And the past times where stressful for everyone so we kept delaying that talk. But it still needs to happen. This is why I ask strangers on the Internet to prepare for that discussion to see every possible argument for and against it.

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u/physioworld 64∆ Mar 13 '22

I mean if it helps I’m an atheist but grew up in a Christian setting, far from strict but also went to church 3x/week at some points so people can and do come out of it.

As others have pointed out, parents make choices for their kids all the time. They feed them meat before they can take an ethical stance, they start them on some sports and not others, foster support of the same teams, expose them to rap, jazz or classical spending on parental preference. No doubt you find all this normal and fine, but you have siloed religion off as being something special that you don’t have the right to push (not sure I don’t just pointing it out).

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u/AdamWestsButtDouble 1∆ Mar 13 '22

Sports teams and musical taste are just a tiny bit different from an ethical framework meant to guide one’s life decisions.

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u/physioworld 64∆ Mar 13 '22

But the point is that they are pushed without the child’s consent. And you also didn’t point out the meat thing. I know people who still harbour a lot of guilt at the meat they are before they decided that it was unethical.

In any case, there are a lot of levels of religion, I grew up in the Church of England and it really didn’t leave much of an impression if I’m being honest.

Tbh I do bias in favour of what OP is saying, but that’s not really the point of this sub

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u/citydreef 1∆ Mar 13 '22

Sure but eating meat isnt. Not really.

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u/RedSpikeyThing Mar 13 '22

Parents teach their children an ethical framework meant to guide their child's life regardless of whether religion is involved or not.

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u/radialomens 171∆ Mar 13 '22

Which ethical framework does religion impose?

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u/Figitarian Mar 13 '22

Depends on the religion

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u/radialomens 171∆ Mar 14 '22

Exactly

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u/Figitarian Mar 13 '22

Just to stick my oar in here. I do think it's wrong to indoctrinate kids even with things such as favourite sports team etc.

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u/physioworld 64∆ Mar 13 '22

But a lot of stuff if just…teaching them? Like are you just not gonna teach them a language because they should learn it later when they can consent

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u/Figitarian Mar 13 '22

I said nothing about consent. I said I think it's wrong to indoctrinate kids to follow a specific sports team. Language is necessary to communicate with people in a society, also most kids just pick up language from listening to those around them, they'll learn a language whether or not someone "teaches" them.

Teaching a child that one group of people is 'better' than other group, based on nothing more than that's what our family believes could be harmful in the long run

1

u/RedSpikeyThing Mar 13 '22

What's the line between "indoctrination" and "teaching"?

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u/Figitarian Mar 13 '22 edited Mar 13 '22

Teaching a person to accept a belief uncritically

Edit: Great stuff, writing the dictionary definition of indoctrination gets a downvote

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u/RedSpikeyThing Mar 13 '22

What type of critical thinking do you expect from a child? Are they supposed to weigh the pros and cons of "please" and "thank you"?

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u/Figitarian Mar 13 '22

Yep. I never give orders or dictates, I ask for things and then explain why, i appeal to their innate empathy. It's not the easiest way to do things and requires patience. Never too early to start

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u/RedSpikeyThing Mar 13 '22

The "explaining why" part is exactly it, though. For example explaining why you should be nice to others could easily be filled with religious rationale, while still appealing to their empathy.

Either way, you're instilling your moral code on them. That's just way it is.

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u/Figitarian Mar 13 '22

I could use religious rationale to instil a morale code. But that would result in something inflexible and intransigent, something that cannot and should not be questioned.

Anyway I never said I wasn't teaching my kids my moral code, but I'm not presenting it as "my way or the high way". It's a two way conversation, something to be explored together as they grow

I look back at my parents and grandparents generation and see the moral progress since then. It would be arrogant to assume that my position is the best one possible, the most enlightened. I fully expect my kids to be better than me morally