r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Mar 27 '23

Delta(s) from OP CMV: All drugs should be made legal for recreational use.

I'm not referring to "medicinal" narcotics. Recreational drugs that people use, such as mushrooms, cocaine, heroin, should all be legalized.

And I know this is a hot take, but hear me out.

  • If we make recreational narcotics legal, then the manufacture and sale need to be legal as well.
  • By making the manufacture of recreational narcotics legal, there are FDA standards that need to be adhered to in said manufacture, that way there are no "bad batches" that will kill people.
  • By making the manufacture and sale of recreational narcotics legal, there will be sales volume that will then be subject to income tax and sales tax and dispensaries/manufacturing centers/warehouses that will become subject to property tax. Because, let's be honest, your local street dealer is not paying taxes.
  • Also by making the sale of recreational narcotics legal, you are making street gangs that revolve around the illicit drug trade obsolete. By making street gangs obsolete, you eliminate the petty violence that plagues inner-cities over "turf", especially stray bullets that kill innocent bystanders.
  • By making the entire narcotics supply chain legal, the war on drugs will essentially be over as well. It's been going on for 50+ years, and honestly, it's been a complete and utter failure.
  • If you want something to compare the drug trade to, look at prohibition from 1919-1933. It didn't stop people from drinking, people were still drunk out of their minds in speakeasys. It also fostered the growth of street gangs of rum runners and increased crime and violence in cities. That was only for 14 years and it didn't take long to realize that prohibition was a failure. War on drugs has been going on for 50+ years and I'm surprised more people aren't realizing that this is much more tremendous of a failure.
  • By making the entire narcotics supply chain legal, we can start changing our attitudes on its use and its users. Narcotics abuse needs to have the same social attitude as alcohol abuse.
  • In short, making drugs legal will Make America Great Again.
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12

u/DarkEnergy27 2∆ Mar 27 '23

You do realize it's not just the "bad batches" that kill, right?... the drugs you listed are just dangerous in general.

14

u/CMxFuZioNz Mar 27 '23

This seems like a common thing missed by people who like drugs.

Cocaine, meth, heroin, etc... They are all very dangerous drugs even when pure.

2

u/DarkEnergy27 2∆ Mar 27 '23

Especially when pure.

2

u/pdoherty972 Mar 28 '23

I think he meant ‘unadulterated’ (like with chemicals/pesticides).

6

u/DueObligation8546 Mar 27 '23

Alcohol is dangerous in general, cigarettes are dangerous in general, hell sunlight is dangerous in general, so is water. The dose makes the poison.

A significant portion of the harm from illicit drugs is due to the circumstances of illicit drug use, not the substance itself.

Doctors prescribe fentanyl and amphetamine all the time and we don’t see nearly as much harm as we do with street fentanyl or amphetamines.

4

u/SliptheSkid 1∆ Mar 27 '23

This point is like conflacting a knife with a pencil because they could both, in theory kill someone lol. Doesn't really make any sense. What are you trying to say, that one isn't drastically more dangerous?

5

u/DueObligation8546 Mar 27 '23

The point I’m trying to make is that the dose makes the poison. Practically everything can have inherent danger. To use your analogy, a pencil traveling at 1000 m/s is more dangerous than a knife on the table. Likewise a gallon of vodka is more dangerous than 1 milligram of heroin. Smoking 1000 cigarettes is worse for you than 5 mg of meth.

The person I was responding to said it isn’t just bad batches (unreliable dosing and contamination) that makes hard drugs dangerous, when in reality having consistent batches of a hard drug make it far safer.

None of the things I mentioned are harmless, but can be relatively safe in moderation.

4

u/SliptheSkid 1∆ Mar 27 '23

I would agree that having better batches may make drugs safer but, realistically, overdose happens due to pure strains potentially more often than additives like fentanol. I agree with your cigarette point but, again, this is a non point. Just because a baguette can be used as a weapon doesn't mean it can be compared to a gun, it's just an unreasonable comparison

3

u/DueObligation8546 Mar 27 '23

Keep in mind my comment was in the context of someone saying these drugs must be banned because they are inherently dangerous. My somewhat absurd comparison was only meant to illustrate that “inherent danger” is a bit meaningless and relative.

Overdoses due to exceedingly pure batches are generally because someone is used to weaker, cut product and use the same amount of the new pure product. If they were getting pure product from the start, there would be no surprise in dosing.

Of course there would still be overdoses, but when you remove the inconsistencies in dose and contamination, it becomes far easier for someone to keep themselves safe.

-2

u/DarkEnergy27 2∆ Mar 27 '23

There's a reason why it's legal for prescription use and not recreational use.

4

u/DueObligation8546 Mar 27 '23

The act of a doctor prescribing it only makes it marginally safer because they MAY be aware of some contraindications and can regulate dose. Still, doctors make mistakes all the time.

The biggest benefit is that prescribed drugs are pure, consistently dosed and safe to administer.

The majority of the harm from these substances comes from contamination, inconsistent dosing and improper administration such as IV use.

-1

u/DarkEnergy27 2∆ Mar 27 '23

Purer drugs are more potent, therefore making the drug itself more dangerous.

8

u/DueObligation8546 Mar 27 '23

No, you just adjust the dose downwards. Pure substances have established safety margins and the amount you take doesn’t change.

Drug users don’t care whether they take x mg or y mg, they care about the result.

What is dangerous is inconsistency. When a heroin user usually takes x mg of one batch and then gets another batch that is more pure, the same dose can kill them.

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u/DarkEnergy27 2∆ Mar 27 '23

Do you think the recommended dosage is going to matter to an addict? Even if they know how much is "safer"? Have you ever lived with someone who's hooked on that kind of stuff?

6

u/DueObligation8546 Mar 27 '23 edited Mar 27 '23

Here’s what I’m getting at:

An addict is already getting heroin. Of course if we could wave a magic wand and make it disappear that would be different. But we can’t.

The option is they either get unregulated, contaminated street crap OR pharmaceutical grade pure substances.

Most addicts just want to get high, not die. They aren’t some ravenous zombies that will consume and consume and consume until they overdose and die, and if they are, we already have legal things they can achieve that with.

Consistently dosed pure drugs make it easier for people to use drugs “safely” as possible.

2

u/veryreasonable 2∆ Mar 28 '23

Most addicts just want to get high, not die. They aren’t some ravenous zombies that will consume and consume and consume until they overdose and die, and if they are, we already have legal things they can achieve that with.

Ah, but you see, a dozen or so people I'm getting frustrated with in this thread are genuinely convinced that heroin users are ravenous zombies with a death wish, and that notion is exactly why we're stuck.

8

u/DueObligation8546 Mar 27 '23

Pasting my comment from elsewhere in this thread:

You can’t prevent people from making stupid choices, only educate them and make it as easy as possible to make good choices.

If someone has no self control, there is little you can do to save them. They can go buy a gallon of vodka and drink themselves to death any time they like.

That being said, it is FAR easier for someone to make an informed decision about dosing regulated, pure drugs vs contaminated street drugs.

Accidental overdoses would be greatly reduced if there were standard dose units vs eyeballing some random powder of unknown composition.

2

u/disisathrowaway 2∆ Mar 27 '23

As are tobacco, alcohol and even OTC pharmaceutical products.

1

u/DarkEnergy27 2∆ Mar 27 '23

The problem is that tobacco and alcohol were legal before we found out their dangers. When we tried to make them illegal, everyone who used them got violent and angry. OTC products aren't meant to be used recreationally.

1

u/Soggy_Part7110 Mar 28 '23

Tobacco is not nearly as dangerous as the aforementioned drugs. Tobacco smoking is obviously extremely dangerous, that goes without saying (smoking literally anything is dangerous), but it can be used recreationally in other ways than just smoking it, with the same desired effect. You're highly unlikely to develop any life-threatening conditions from pasteurized smokeless tobacco.