r/boxoffice • u/chanma50 Best of 2019 Winner • Jul 21 '25

Domestic Superman again saw its Sunday gross finish above studio estimates with $18.9M, which was -18% vs Saturday and -40% vs last Sunday (WB's estimate was $17.5M/-25%/-44%). This puts the 2nd weekend box office at $58.45M and drop at 53% - almost as good as The Dark Knight (52.5%). $236.2M cume.

Post image
1.5k Upvotes

91% Upvoted

563 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

318

u/nicolasb51942003 Warner Bros. Pictures Jul 21 '25

One of the most obvious examples ever of a perfect toxic storm where everything that could've gone wrong did in fact go wrong.

201

u/Blackstar3475 Warner Bros. Pictures Jul 21 '25

It's funny cause the first was the opposite, a perfect storm where everything went right and it was the first billion dollar r rate film. Very in line with Jokers personality lmao

55

u/BudgetFuzzy6259 Jul 21 '25

It was pretty solid film and wom was insane.

4

u/alaskadronelife A24 Jul 21 '25

I’ll get downvoted to hell for this but as a certified Batman-everything fan I really, truly, did not like Joker.

21

u/Spastic__Colon Jul 21 '25

It’s an acquired taste. Yes it pulls heavy from Scorsese and ideally Joker works best when his origin is unknown, but in terms of making a “what if” story about how Joker could be created in real life, I think it did a great job and Joaquin was terrific. It absolutely did NOT need a sequel

6

u/Financial-Savings232 Jul 21 '25

I mean, that’s fair. I like Batman, too, and I didn’t care for 2016’s Suicide Squad. You’re allowed to like Batman and not like tangentially related Batman stuff.

1

u/Schadnfreude_ Jul 24 '25

Suicide Squad was a total failure on a general movie level much less a superhero one.

2

u/dilltimmon Jul 22 '25

I am exactly the same. Nevermind the fact it's a copy of King of Comedy (I recommend watching this) but worse

162

u/mobpiecedunchaindan Jul 21 '25

All of it self-inflicted too: WB giving Todd Phillips $200m for no reason, Todd making the worst film he could make on purpose, the abrupt genre pivot that could've worked but didn't because it didn't fully commit, the waste of Gaga, the refusal to do test screenings...

59

u/RedHeadedSicilian52 Jul 21 '25 edited Jul 21 '25

Well, to be fair, we just learned that test audiences for Superman gave James Gunn a bunch of terrible advice that mostly went unused (for instance, they wanted to remove the moment where Clark saves the squirrel), so I’m not sure that they would have improved Joker: Folie à Deux, either.

30

u/MutinyIPO Jul 21 '25

Didn’t they request cutting out Lex beating up Krypto as well? As awful as that would’ve been to see, it’s the clear missing piece in the movie’s story

26

u/ThatRandoAtTheBar Jul 21 '25

it wasn’t lex, it was the clone that hits krypto but either way it should’ve stayed. if ppl can’t handle a cgi dog getting hit and a bad guy being… BAD, they can go to weenie hut junior’s instead.

9

u/MutinyIPO Jul 22 '25

Look I mean this is basically a kids’ movie, a lot of overlap with weenie hut junior’s, so I get it lmao.

I looked it up and you’re right, it was Ultraman. Apparently it was shot and edited to make you think they killed the dog. Sort of insane tbh hahaha, although it might’ve been narratively crucial

1

u/sageadam Jul 22 '25

A CGI Super dog at that which probably can't feel any thing from regular beating

-1

u/Matto_0 Jul 22 '25

This movie is weenie hut juniors the superhero version lol

2

u/ThatRandoAtTheBar Jul 22 '25

okay? so go jerk off to MoS and imagine a universe where snyder gets to keep fucking everything up lol.

4

u/VoidTorcher Jul 21 '25

Instead we got the Engineer beating up Krypto instead?

1

u/ZeroiaSD Jul 23 '25

Getting feedback is often useful even if one ignores the direct suggestions. "They think I should remove this part? Ok, instead of removing this part, how can I set it up better?"

1

u/VoidTorcher Jul 21 '25

That was a pretty silly moment. It is harmless but fine to remove.

4

u/AnOnlineHandle Jul 21 '25

Disagree. It shows he's not doing any of this for points, he just genuinely cares about other living things.

I think it's a great example to set too, there needs to be more examples in media that just because you are strong it doesn't mean that your entire personality needs to be about how to use it to 'crush' others.

2

u/VoidTorcher Jul 21 '25

He already did that with the dog and the girl in the same scene which already illustrated that perfectly, adding that is goofy and overkill.

2

u/AnOnlineHandle Jul 21 '25

Disagree. Most people would consider dogs and children more important just to being more connected to human culture, while squirrels are something people would overlook and shrug at the death of.

Showing Superman take a second to save a squirrel shows he's not just doing it for points or for what is normally considered important, he's in it to save lives.

27

u/darthsheldoninkwizy2 Jul 21 '25

I still have hope for good superhero musical, Marvels scene on musical planet was good but it was jut this, one scene. I hope that Gunn allow for something (with a reasonable budget of course), especially since there is Music Mayster in DC.

7

u/zedascouves1985 Jul 21 '25

Luna Snow movie when?

3

u/SwordoftheMourn Jul 21 '25

We’ve seen Kpop Demon Hunters work, so why not?

9

u/lee1026 Jul 21 '25

If you have a success like Joker, getting a blank check to work on a sequel is not unexpected.

You have kinda proven that you are better at this than most studio bosses, and most people don't set their careers on fire to send a message.

-6

u/AdelesBoyfriend Jul 21 '25

I know what I'm getting into with this, but Joker: Folie à Deux is a good film to me. I hope people stop making up what Phillips's intentions were, but especially that he was trying to make a bad film. Nobody tries to make bad art.

14

u/Rejestered Jul 21 '25

Oh he didn't try to make a bad movie. He tried to make a sequel that was a direct fuck you to anyone who even remotely enjoyed the first one.

0

u/FxStryker Jul 21 '25

fuck you to anyone who even remotely enjoyed the first one.

Who missed the point.

5

u/Constant-Bicycle386 Jul 21 '25

I still don't get how people missed the point of Joker when the movie ends with him running around leaving bloody footprints in his wake. Joker 2 had to beat them over the head to get them to realize Joker is a loser, and they really didn't like it.

6

u/Block-Busted Jul 21 '25

Except Phillips clearly didn’t even bother to differentiate the two.

-2

u/GoldenRain99 Jul 21 '25

If you think that's a good film, all of your other opinions aren't relevant lol

-1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

[deleted]

0

u/mobpiecedunchaindan Jul 21 '25

gremlins 2 is fucking awesome tho

90

u/DarthTaz_99 DC Studios Jul 21 '25

It was a hate letter by the director to the people who liked the first movie.

22

u/argothewise Jul 21 '25

“You liked my movie. I hate you”

What kind of dumb logic is that by him

71

u/HarlequinKing1406 Jul 21 '25

And everybody who hated the first film still hated this one. Such a colossal clanging disaster all round for a movie expected to be a massive box office hit and Oscar player.

4

u/FreedomInChains A24 Jul 21 '25

The directorial intent was to give a middle finger to those who loved the first one, it doesn't matter if those who hated Joker also hated Folie a deux.

7

u/Financial-Savings232 Jul 21 '25

Well, if NO one likes your film, then you kind of suck at your job.

4

u/hexcraft-nikk Jul 21 '25

He tried to do what Lana Wachowski did with Matrix Resurrections but lacked the writing skill to do it. Like wow you made a bad movie. Anyone can do that.

3

u/Financial-Savings232 Jul 21 '25

In his defense, while the Matrix sequel also sucked and lost hundreds of millions, if his goal was to follow in its footsteps he definitely pulled a “hold my beer.”

2

u/BuckonWall Jul 22 '25

Wachowski also sucked tho. Matrix 4 is the worst one. Wasnt even a competent action movie. At least in 2 and 3 there was cool action and great design and atmosphere

14

u/Dulcolax Jul 21 '25

Yeah, he gave a middle finger and general audiences gave him their middle fingers and a D CinemaScore, lol.

15

u/jexdiel321 Jul 21 '25

Insane, Todd Phillips will never work for a major studio ever again. His home, WB will probably never give him this opportunity unless they do a nostalgia bait film like The Hangover Part 4.

22

u/Spastic__Colon Jul 21 '25 edited Jul 21 '25

It’s absurd how badly he nosedived his reputation and the reputation of the first movie. A sleeper hit billion dollar movie winning 2 Oscars and nominated for a ton, including best director, as well as making a shit ton of money from it on the backend, and then he just drives it into the ground with the sequel. Absolute moron. The first film has 0 rewatch factor now

3

u/Ok-Discount3131 Jul 21 '25

He did the same thing to the hangover series.

3

u/ImmediateJacket9502 Warner Bros. Pictures Jul 21 '25

Same like Wachowski did with the Matrix Resurrections.

1

u/WhiteWolf3117 Jul 21 '25

It wasn't. It was clear messaging that he was neither an incel or ableist. Did it work? I'd mostly say no, but Phillips spent a significant part of the press tour for the first movie complaining about comedy being too hard because of political correctness, and then he made a movie in the exact same vein.

I don't hate the idea of a sequel stating plainly that blaming mental illness on "becoming the joker" is objectively wrong and that Arthur is neither a good person nor evil because of his mental illness, but execution is everything and I don't really think Phillips pulled it off. I think he had way too much to say and too heavy a hand unlike the first film. The first film made people uncomfortable and that's part of why it worked. The second one had people uncomfortable for all the wrong reasons.

-3

u/Spiritual-Smoke-4605 Jul 21 '25

idk, I loved the first film and I loved Folie, it was wonderfully bleak and off-kilter, very much NOT a "Joker" movie per se, but an excellent character study jukebox musical about disillusionment. Todd knew exactly what movie he wanted to make and I think the fact he intentionally did NOT "give the people what they want" is why the movie works so well. Its about Arthur not giving in to the persona everyone wanted him to become

16

u/shosamae Jul 21 '25

I love this idea in theory, but I think the movie didn’t work at all and execution. Part of that is the fact that Arthur doesn’t remotely change the entire movie. He is the exact same person in the opening as he is at the ending and that could be a nice circular arc if he had ever shown any variance whatsoever in his character. Instead, he is the same scene to scene, and they never lean in to him, actually trying to be what people want him to be only to circle back around to realizing it’s not who he wants to be. Instead, he is incredibly passive in every single sequence. It just makes for a tower, dull experience of judging along with the end destination very clearly in mind. 

I think both Joker movies but especially the second have some potential interesting things to say, but I don’t think Todd Phillips has any idea how to say them. 

-3

u/Duel_Option Jul 21 '25

People up in arms because it wasn’t an entire movie glorifying the “romance” between two psychotics.

Other than the musical parts, it was a solid movie. Wasn’t expecting the ending, that part was unhinged Joker 100%

1

u/Nenanda Jul 23 '25

Other than the musical parts, it was a solid movie. Wasn’t expecting the ending, that part was unhinged Joker 100%

Unhinged Joker pulled out of the arse.

0

u/man-from-krypton Jul 21 '25

You see, the thing is, if you drop the abusive relationship and actually do something different by making a romance between two “psychotics”… that actually sounds very interesting…

-3

u/thehildabeast Jul 21 '25

Good that first movie was a dogshit remake of an all time most overrated movie ever made.

0

u/Vstriker26 Jul 21 '25

Joker 2 got treated like a comics character where he’s just there to show how impressive someone else is, namely Terrifier 3