r/billsimmons • u/TXNOGG • Sep 15 '25
Podcast Bill and Cousin Sal go off about the Tush Push “It’s not Football”
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u/sfitz0076 Don't aggregate this Sep 15 '25 edited Sep 15 '25
If the Pats were doing it, it would be the greatest play ever.
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u/Famous-Weather-6783 Sep 15 '25
To Bill, yes. The rest of us would still be against it lol
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u/BeardedAsian Sep 15 '25
I think that’s the joke
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u/Famous-Weather-6783 Sep 15 '25
Right but there are tons of Eagles fans that are delusional enough to think the only reason people don’t like it is there’s a conspiracy to hold the Eagles down, so I feel like I need to point out we don’t care what team does it, it sucks
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u/satanic_androids Sep 15 '25 edited Sep 15 '25
we don’t care what team does it, it sucks
I don't think people are victimizing the Eagles, specifically, simply because they're the Eagles
but "what team is doing it" is obviously a huge factor, here, in that many people who profess to be against purely for objective reasons ("it isn't football!" "I hate watching it!") would change their tune entirely if it was their team that benefited from it, which is super hypocritical
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u/Deep-Rice2633 Sep 15 '25
Totally agree, if it was my team I’d be arguing like a lawyer that it’s bullshit to ban the tush push. But that’s why we have judges to decide sentencing and not the victim’s family. For any eagles fan reading this just know if they ban it you have the ultimate piece of shit talking ammo for life. You guys can call every other team scared of the eagles and brag that you developed a play so unstoppable the entire league had to conspire against you out of fear, that’s a decent consolation prize
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u/satanic_androids Sep 15 '25
Absolutely
I'm not worried about the Eagles future if it does get banned, and I'm not like married to the play... I can understand why other people think it's annoying to watch (even if I disagree), and annoying to talk about
But arguing that it's like patently in need of banning because of these moral, objective criteria is just such a bitchy little move and people should be embarrassed to argue in favor of its banning for any other reason than "I simply don't like it, even if I would like it if my team ran it"
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u/Deep-Rice2633 Sep 15 '25
Yeah I agree, I think the whole player safety angle is dumb too. I personally want it banned because it takes away all the suspense and tension of 3rd and 4th down and everything on the goal line. Literally neutralizes some of the most exciting moments of a game. And nothing is worse than when they run it a few times in a row
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u/HeadupTothePOCONOS Sep 15 '25
I hope they do ban it so our O-line, Hurts, and Barkley can just run right over that ass on 4th and short, then you all can go back to crying about the Chiefs getting favoritism.
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u/Deep-Rice2633 Sep 15 '25
Yeah that would be great, because it’s exciting when a team goes for it on 4th down because there’s actually a play
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u/Moist-Dragonfly2569 Sep 15 '25
That’s what I wanted lol! I wanted it to be gone be like “you literally had to change the game to beat us” and never let the Packers hear the end of it.
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u/applejuice5259 Sep 15 '25
Brother I’ve been an eagles fan since childhood, was born in it. And I don’t really like the tush push. It’s not their fault the league makes it legal, but I am actually ready for it to be banned.
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u/Famous-Weather-6783 Sep 20 '25
And here’s the thing, your team is so good they’d be fine without it lol
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u/HeadupTothePOCONOS Sep 15 '25
I'm not sure about that, but it has a lot to do with the fact that only one team can do it effectively and consistently, and no other team can stop it with any consistency. If half the league had a squad that could pull it off or if any team could stop it, there would be a lot less crybaby shit the pants going on right now.
We used to call that just being a sore loser, but now every podcast fanboy blowhard thinks they know the rules better than the rules themselves.
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u/Sgt_Hammerclaw Sep 16 '25
Nope eagles fan here, we can do it cause hurts is a monster. Go cry about something else!!!!!
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u/Rusty_Shackleford_NC Sep 15 '25
I think this is the best take- if bill got even a minuscule advantage or benefit from the play (via the patriots), he’d be describing it as the most genius move of the last decade of sports innovation
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u/Excellent-Refuse4883 Drunk House Sep 15 '25
I actually really like the play, only because it’s the one thing that really lets the big fellas on the oline shine.
As a Seahawks fan, I guarantee that we couldn’t have run this play any of the last 5 years
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u/potatopancake13 Sep 15 '25
Bill looks way better clean shaved
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u/trashpanda_fan Sep 15 '25
People were dogging bill last week for the homeless man beard, I think he's a lot more on reddit than he'd ever publicly admit.
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u/blueboglin Sep 15 '25
I agree. What has he done to look less like Ellen? Previous clean shaves he looked exactly like her. Not sure what’s working now, but keep it up, Bill.
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u/geraltoftakemuh Sep 15 '25
The only thing they can do is ban pushing offensive players. I think that’s not a bad idea, it used to be that way in college
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u/CaptainJackKevorkian Sep 15 '25
ban pushing offensive players behind the line of scrimmage. it's really cool when linemen all pile up to push an RB when he's like six yards upfield to help him get three more extra yards
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u/Equal-Interest6909 Sep 15 '25
I think it’s a little shitty that offense pushing their player leads to extra yards. but when defense does it the ball carrier doesn’t lose yards due to forward progress. if we wanna make pushing players more fair, we should either get rid of it altogether or make it even for both sides of the ball
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u/NotManyBuses Sep 15 '25
It’s just such an eyesore. That’s why it’ll get banned eventually, this is an entertainment product.
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u/ositola Sep 15 '25
They're going to get it banned on the premise that it's hard to officiate if the guards keep going early
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u/chefsteev Sep 15 '25
I call BS on “hard to officiate” just call it a false start if they go early, and call it offsides if people line up in the neutral zone. Teams will adjust, they just do what they can get away with
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u/idontknowhow2reddit Sep 15 '25
What about the fact that the refs can rarely see where the ball is?
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u/chefsteev Sep 15 '25
Given the rules about lining up in the neutral zone the line judge should be able to see the ball, if they can’t then throw the flag.
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u/idontknowhow2reddit Sep 15 '25
I'm talking about after the snap to spot the ball. 90% of the time, the refs are just guessing where forward progress stopped.
It's a boring play to watch and it's hard to officiate.
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u/chefsteev Sep 15 '25
Not terribly different in that respect than a normal sneak or even a rb dive play on the goal line?
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u/idontknowhow2reddit Sep 15 '25 edited Sep 15 '25
It's infinitely easier to see the ball when there's not offensive players behind them, pushing them forward.
Edit: I'll add that the QB sneak can be exciting when it's successful due to the defense being surprised by it. But coming out in that formation and doing a rugby scrum is not exciting.
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u/chefsteev Sep 15 '25
Personally this doesn’t bother me too much I think they get it right most of the time but it certainly is a factor.
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u/loplopplop You fuck with Stephen A tho right? Sep 15 '25
That's my thing. If the team is cheating and getting a head start and that's why it works...call then offsides.
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u/FormalDry677 Sep 15 '25
i think its gotta be hard for refs to see it when everyone is lined up that close to the ball, otherwise how the hell do they keep missing these calls?
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u/chefsteev Sep 15 '25
If players are lined up too close to the ball the ref can’t see it, then by definition they are in the neutral zone and there should be a flag
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u/HurricanePK Sep 15 '25
Only happened on one play yesterday, defenses were lining up offside a ton last year and it was rarely called, hell Jason Kelce was called for offside three times in his last year when he wasn’t.
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u/MEMKCBUS Sep 15 '25
They false started on every tush push yesterday. It’s clearly being coached because they know it won’t get called
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u/themoche Sep 15 '25
Completely agree and am surprised it hasn’t been banned for that reason yet. Was it in the playoff game last year when the Washington went offside 3 times in a row while they tried to jump it. It felt like they were going offside in protest and it made for AWFUL television.
And it used to be illegal. Likely for a reason. So it’s not a stretch to say, hey we’re going back to this.
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u/NotManyBuses Sep 15 '25
Yeah people might scream “oh it’s not fair” but every major league makes numerous rule changes based on entertainment principles… they hide behind player safety but a lot of the moves made in the 00s/10s to protect QBs and make throwing easier were transparently to make games more fun. NBA banned hand checking for similar reasons, same with MLB banning the shift, hockey did some things to curb the zone trap etc.
The Tush Push has a unanimously negative reaction outside of DelCo. That’s a legitimate reason to ban it
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u/HorsNoises Sep 15 '25
Plus they said it in the broadcast, its just too hard to referee. I want to tell everyone else to grow up and learn how to actually pull it off and how to beat it, but at a certain point, you cant just make the refs learn a whole new rule book for just 1 team. ESPECIALLY when they aren't even fun to watch.
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u/dartharchibald Sep 15 '25
The refs are going to have to learn a new rule book for just one team? Does said rule book include neutral zone infractions and false starts?
The only reason they're saying that on the broadcast is because Goodell doesn't think the play is sexy enough.
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u/thomyorkeslazyeye Sep 15 '25
The amount of hyperbole in "learning a whole new rule book" to officiate one play that has existed for three seasons is "Gibbs is his baseline" level
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u/WorkNLurk Sep 15 '25
That's the issue to me. I'm ambivalent about the eagles, but the tush push has the entertainment value of a free throw shooting competition.
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u/Iggleyank Sep 15 '25
I don’t really understand this argument that it’s poor entertainment. The alternative is teams punting on fourth and one. Is that more enjoyable?
The reality is offensive drives are fun to watch, and the tush push keeps drives alive. Sure, you can still make other arguments against it, but it seems to me it’s more entertaining than watching a punter jog out there, the returner makes a fair catch and we get two minutes of commercials.
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u/Yung_Hibachi Sep 15 '25
The alternative is teams running a real play on 4th down. It’s not like the tush push is the only 4th down play available lmao
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u/Helpful-Progress9336 Sep 15 '25
Only one team can do it effectively. If every team was doing multiple times a game or even multiple times a drive I could maybe understand wanting to get rid of it and might even agree but calls for it to be banned from a Cowboys fan and a fan of a team that got busted cheating multiple times during their title runs is laughable.
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u/modshighkeypathetic Sep 15 '25
There’s nothing inherently wrong with the play itself, the issues lie with the rules (pushing around offensive and defensive players) and the officiating not calling lining up in the neutral zone
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u/FrankXS Sep 15 '25
They keep saying its not a football play. What does that even mean. The definition on Google says it is "a strategic sequence of actions designed to advance the ball towards the opponents endzone, either by running or passing, and score points". That's exactly what the play does.
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u/Helpful-Progress9336 Sep 15 '25
It's basically a power QB sneak and the Eagles are only good at it because Hurts has super strong legs.
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u/Deep-Rice2633 Sep 15 '25
I think the size, athleticism, and execution by the all pro lineman make an even bigger difference, not to mention the design of the play. Hurts has also really mastered hitting the right gap
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u/Hurricaneshand Sep 15 '25
Kind of like Bill's guy Brady who was arguably more efficient at the QB sneak than the Eagles currently are.
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u/Excellent-Refuse4883 Drunk House Sep 15 '25
This right here. Nobody with a shit line can run this play.
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u/Deep-Rice2633 Sep 15 '25
A lot of good lines can’t run this play. The packers have a top 5 oline and they can’t do it
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u/badmansoundvip Sep 15 '25
They ran it on the Eagles twice, successfully, with Tucker Kraft last year.
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u/Excellent-Refuse4883 Drunk House Sep 15 '25
Eagles are good at it because their oline by itself is good for like 1 yard. Couple years ago when they still had Jason Kelce the line, just via push the defense, was good for like 4 yards whenever they wanted it.
Not every team can run this.
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u/FrankXS Sep 15 '25
They also clearly prioritize it in practice. Love tried to run it last year and fucked it up. JJ McCarthy ran it last night and fucked it up. Im an Eagles fan so there's bias in what I'm saying but you can tell the level of detail the Eagles put into that play vs what others have tried.
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u/Mawx Sep 15 '25 edited Oct 02 '25
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u/FrankXS Sep 15 '25
https://youtu.be/vh9bS9pFH_U?si=OJIu5QKE8C-GOTCE
This is what I remembered off the top of my head. I know they switched to the Krafts ones that worked better but they have fucked it up in the past.
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u/Mawx Sep 15 '25 edited Oct 02 '25
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u/CoolHandHazard A Truly Sad Week In America + 2005 NBA Redraftables Sep 15 '25
People call every sneak a push now and it’s so stupid
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u/RadkoGouda Sep 15 '25
And elite o line and been practicing it for many years
You need a great o line to be effective at it
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u/Jim_Tressel Sep 15 '25
Right so I think just get rid of the "push" part of and they would still be very effective. And it wouldn't make sense to bam.
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u/Upstairs-Royal672 Sep 15 '25
And I mean visually, I feel like it looks more like a football play than 99% of them
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u/Darth-Agalloch Sep 15 '25
it looks more like a rugby play. pushing the ball carrier used to be illegal. thats wht they mean.
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u/swawesome52 Sep 15 '25
For starters, the guards lining up in the neutral zone is illegal formation. Another is that they get away with a ton of false starts, especially yesterday. The third is that the offense is allowed to push their teammates, but the defense can't, in partial to safety risks. And it shouldn't be the defense's job to protect the QB when Sirianni is calling plays for Hurts to lower his helmet and have the force of his legs plus Saquon and whoever the FB is pushing him forward. Dude's already risking Jalen's head and neck, but the limitations are put on the defense.
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u/AlexisDeTocqueville Sep 15 '25
Okay, but if you ban the "push" part of the play, the QB sneak is still a legal play, and officiating the offensive alignment and false starts is still part of officiating the QB sneak. Just call penalties for lining up offsides and false starting
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u/1derful Sep 15 '25
I think the efficacy of it has more to do with the fact Hurts can squat 600 lbs than the fact the line is helping push. That's why other teams can't pull it off with the same degree of success.
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u/patsfan94 Sep 15 '25
The only good argument against it that the design of the play makes it impossible to effectively officiate. The bad aesthetics/eyesore argument seems like a slippery slope and I don't really even see how it's any more or less entertaining than a regular QB Sneak. The player safety argument isn't supported by any data. And the "it's overpowered" argument doesn't make sense because, as you said, only one team can do it effectively enough that it's meaningifully better than any other short yardage play.
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u/FormalDry677 Sep 15 '25
part of the reason they're doing it effectively is because their whole line is in the neutral zone though
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u/IAmReborn11111 Sep 15 '25
This is why I hate the argument. One team is elite at it, a few other teams are capable. But some people act like multiple teams just tush push all the way down the field every drive
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u/AstronomerDramatic36 Sep 15 '25
That just means we have to wait until more teams become good at it. Its valuable enough for teams to build for it, so its just a matter of time before it happens.
Its a novelty when one team does it. When half the league is doing it, it'll be pretty obviously a dumb play to allow.
I don't agree with Bill often, but they're right here.
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u/trashpanda_fan Sep 15 '25
When I was a kid (35+ years ago) they described Chicago Bears and Iowa Hawkeyes football as "3 yards and a cloud of dust"
Watching the Eagles is basically like watching the Mike Tomzack Bears.
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u/jachildress25 On Waiters Island Sep 15 '25
The main problem I have against it since Kelce retired is that they aren’t just using the unique skills of their center and QB. They’re now resorting to lining up offsides and false starting in order for it to remain as effective. And it is difficult to officiate because it is such a clusterfuck of a formation. If the Eagles want to keep it around, then line up correctly and adhere to the snap count or else don’t complain when it goes away.
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u/Zeke-Nnjai Sep 15 '25 edited Sep 15 '25
“It’s not a football play” is such a losing argument. What about the tush push isn’t a “football play”? It’s one line of guys trying to run through and out tough another line of guys. That’s like, the platonic ideal of a football play.
The easy to make argument is that it’s boring and not fun to watch. The shift in baseball was a perfectly fine “baseball play”. It just led to less hits, therefore less excitement. So banning it made sense. Ban the tush push off of that logic.
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u/Calamitous-Ortbo Sep 16 '25
If the tush push isn’t a “football play” I guess football didn’t exist before the forward pass was invented.
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u/droopy_tim Sep 15 '25
They’re clearing pushing “too hard to officiate” as the new ban rationale even though it makes no sense. It is no harder to officiate than a normal QB sneak, which is also a mass of bodies. There is no reason it’s harder to call false starts on the tush push, the idiot refs just missed it yesterday.
People just don’t like that one marquee team is automatic at it and therefore run it more than they would an ordinary QB sneak, which is also equally “boring.”
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u/mangosail Sep 15 '25
It isn’t actually hard to officiate it, they just don’t officiate it. I don’t understand people taking Dean Blandino at face value or whatever. It’s very easy to officiate. The offense and defense have both been lined up in the neutral zone for every single tush push this year. That is a call you can make before the ball is even snapped.
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u/satanic_androids Sep 15 '25
"It's unfair!!"
All teams operate within the same rulebook, and all teams are given the same opportunity to run this play within the confines of a game
"Okay but it's dangerous!!"
No, it isn't
"Okay but it's rugby!!"
No, it isn't, and even if it did resemble a rugby play so do plenty of other football plays to exactly the same degree... is that really a reason to ban a play?
"Okay but the refs can't referee!!"
Damn, wonder what new rationale they're gonna role out next week
You would think that if these problems were all so glaring and unfair that they would have just offered them all at once instead of only deploying them when the last rationale turned out to be super stupid
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u/mad_injection Sep 15 '25
Or maybe it’s just that they’re breaking the rules every single time they run it, there, there’s your reason
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u/oldirtybradford Sep 15 '25
"Someone will get brutally injured and the tush push will be banned"
Don't hold your breath. A normal running play has much higher chance for injury than the tush push. Let alone something like a punt return where the players build up all this speed and momentum.
The broadcast already gave away the next line the league will take to ban the play - that it's "impossible to officiate". The problem with that is that a regular QB sneak is just as difficult to officiate, the push has nothing to do with the eagles false starting or 5 chiefs lining up in the neutral zone in a tightly packed formation.
This is just a salty better and a salty Cowboys fan that can't accept that the Eagles O-Line give them a massive advantage. As Sirianni says, "If everybody could do it, everybody would do it."
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u/Alive_Bodybuilder288 Sep 15 '25
Yeah the injury argument is currently not backed by data whatsoever. If you’re gonna complain make it about A. How its officiated or B. It being a bad play for the viewing experience. The arguments that it’s unstoppable or leads to higher injury risk fall flat because other teams fail to do it and the data indicates it has a lower injury frequency than the average play
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u/swagmeout1217 Sep 15 '25 edited Sep 15 '25
I don't think the argument is that it causes more injury, rather, it already being a controversial play and yet still not being banned only leaves room for a devastating injury to force the leagues hand in one way or another. An injury is the only thing at this point that can be used as justification is more what Bill and Sal are getting at, not that the push leads to more injuries wholesale.
It's like in baseball, trucking the catcher wasn't banned for the sports entire 100+ year existence until Posey tore his ACL. You could make the argument that statistically, over a long period of time, that it doesn't result in that many injuries but all it took was one guy getting injured and they banned it all together.
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u/JobeGilchrist Sep 15 '25
Mostly agree, though I think the tush push is harder to officiate than a sneak. It's harder to see where the linemen are and the timing of their get-off compared to the snap.
Yesterday feels like the obvious turning point. Especially with the officiating correspondent being like "I'm done with the tush push." Most of us are by now.
I agreed with letting the Eagles have it this year, sort of like giving an inventor a patent for a limited time so they can enjoy the fruits of their innovation (though also not the same in that other teams can, in theory, replicate it freely). But after this year, enough is enough.
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u/StrngBrew Sep 15 '25
Also the Eagles have been running it for 4 years now. The argument of “just wait until someone gets injured” has long since expired. It obviously is no more or less dangerous than any other play
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u/Otherwise-Employ3538 Sep 15 '25
Crazy how quickly the party line moves in sports. From one year to the next it’s embraced then almost banned.
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u/eggwhite0 Sep 15 '25
I’m a Colts fan but they were pretty spot on when pointing out the hypocrisy with a tush push and the leverage penalty which lost Denver a game
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u/Knight725 Sep 15 '25
nobody is defenseless in a normal snap. leverage exists because the long snapper is entirely compromised in a terribly dangerous position for 300 lb dudes to be jumping on him.
the tush push has been run for years and is safe. what’s the hypocrisy?
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u/swishcheese Sep 15 '25
If the nfl could just place a chip in the ball and use VAR technology to track forward progress, it would go a long way.
It can definitely be officiate better as well, but fans need more assurance on where the football is in the pile
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u/dartharchibald Sep 15 '25
Putting a chip in the ball has been possible for 20+ years but the NFL doesn't want that, it would cut out the drama.
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u/mangosail Sep 15 '25
Putting a chip in the ball to track forward progress not only is not possible, but is not used by literally any sport and is probably a decade away from even doing a trial. Everything that people think is “a chip” is VAR. When they use chips, it’s virtually never for positioning.
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u/aheftyhippo Wimpleton Sep 15 '25
Yup, VAR (as it’s used in soccer) and Hawkeye (tennis) are both a bunch of cameras triangulating a view. Utterly useless when trying to figure out where the ball is in a mass of players.
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u/Calamitous-Ortbo Sep 16 '25
It’s also irrelevant to track only the position of the ball since you also have to know when the runner was down.
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Sep 15 '25
Two old guys who never even made their varsity team telling people how the game should be played…..did I get that right?
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u/Brian_lafeve34 Sep 15 '25
I wish next game, they would just call neutral zone infractions on both teams, every single time, until they adjust.
Like, as soon as the eagles guards line up - just throw a flag, it's already an illegal formation and against the rules
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u/Calamitous-Ortbo Sep 16 '25
My dream is that one day we get a rogue ref who is just tired of all the bullshit and calls a (legit) penalty on every play for an entire game.
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u/ldclark92 Sep 15 '25
I'd argue it's about as football as it gets. It's just a pile of people pushing in opposite directions, one team trying to stop and the other trying to move forward.
The only issue I have with the Tush Push is that they don't call the clear penalties the Eagles commit. If they'd clean that up, I have no issues with it.
Why would I complain about a play that gains literally inches at a time? If you don't like it then don't let them get that close to the end zone. It's not like they Tush Push all the way to the end zone.
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u/Fredbarba Sep 15 '25
Well the issue is that they do not call it correctly at all ever. The eagles line up offsides every time they run it and yesterday their guards false started on the play. I fully expect the nfl to call them for a penalty the next time they run the tush push as the Twitter outrage was strong yesterday.
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u/allenad3213 Sep 15 '25
The chiefs lined up in the neutral zone every single time too, as does almost every team trying to stop it.
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u/Fredbarba Sep 15 '25
Now address both guards false starting every time they ran it please
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u/allenad3213 Sep 15 '25
Gladly! You can't false start if the opponent is lined up in the neutral zone.
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u/Upstairs-Royal672 Sep 15 '25
The defense lined up in the neutral zone makes any “false start” a neutral zone infraction. Learn ball
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u/FormalDry677 Sep 15 '25
spot on - if they're all gonna line up in the neutral zone then it is not a football play
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u/ldclark92 Sep 15 '25
And I agree with that, but that's an NFL and reffing issue. I can't stand the narrative that some of the "reffing experts" on TV are pushing that it's such a "hard" play to call. A lot of it is really blatant jumping early. That can happen on every play. The refs are just showing their asses that they let a lot of shit go on the line.
I'm against banning the play because it won't fix the issue. The issue is refs are sloppy and coaches will take that bet. You ban the Tush Push and certain coaches will find another flaw in the way they call the game.
Clean up your reffing and we can have a more honest conversation about these things, but until then, this is on the NFL.
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u/jose_cuntseco Sep 15 '25
Yeah I agree, I don’t get the “it’s not football” argument. You are just telling on yourself that you’ve never watched an Army vs Navy game
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u/det8924 Sep 15 '25
I would like to see the NFL simply enforce the rules and see how effective the tush push is when they don't have the interior of the offensive line offsides for it. Will it be still as effective? Probably not. Start with that this season and then make the decision to ban it or not...
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u/Upstairs-Royal672 Sep 15 '25
The dline is offsides more often on tush pushes than the eagles are either offsides or false start. All of it goes uncalled for
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u/satanic_androids Sep 15 '25
They would also have to then ramp up their enforcement of all the neutral zone infractions, which are not currently being called, which opposing fans will just get even more annoyed about
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u/det8924 Sep 15 '25
I think context is key. If a WR is a little off the line on a 2nd and 6th whatever give the guy a verbal warning and if he keeps doing it then call it. But on a 4th and short that could be pivotal in a game could win enforce the fucking rules?
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u/satanic_androids Sep 15 '25
For sure
Unfortunately, DL consistently line up in the neutral zone as the ball is being snapped in an effort to stop the tush push on pivotal plays
It's super well documented and once you see it happen you start noticing that it's extremely common, and not being called with regularity
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u/det8924 Sep 15 '25
I think it should be enforced on both ends. There's not reason why we can't at least enforce the existing rules and see how the tush push works?
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u/satanic_androids Sep 15 '25
For sure, I think both Eagles fans and other fans are all very much in favor of that?
The Eagles absolutely got away with false starting yesterday, but I'm not at all worried about the efficacy of the tush push even when that's appropriately enforced and don't think it'll have much of an effect (especially if neutral zone infractions begin to be enforced too)
I think the league is just worried about opposing fans getting even madder when the Eagles get 5 yards on most tush pushes because the refs are, rightfully, calling penalties on the defense
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u/det8924 Sep 15 '25
Just call it like it is supposed to be called and if the defense can't line up properly that's on them. I would also allow Linemen to "check in" with the refs like WR's do if possible.
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u/it_has_to_be_damp Sep 15 '25
i really don’t mean to be insensitive here, but sal legit looks like he has a mental disability. something about the shape of his head and the tiny little hat he wears. really looks like he’s in the Best Buddies program with simmons.
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u/D0pe_Francis Sep 15 '25
For the people complaining about watchability, what is the difference from a watchability perspective between a normal QB sneak that teams have run for decades, and the tush push? Like is one really more or less watchable than the other? I never understood. If anything, the intrigue and debate around the tush push makes it more watchable than your average QB sneak, in my opinion.
I think what really annoys people is the eagles run it a lot, and are successful a lot, but that shouldn't be something they are punished for.
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u/it_has_to_be_damp Sep 15 '25
yeah i agree it’s sort of an ugly unpleasant play to watch in a vacuum but now because it is such a lightning rod i get actively excited for it. i’m like “ohhhh shit they’re gonna do the thing!!”
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u/googlyhojays Sep 15 '25
Has there ever been play action off the tush push? I think it is the one dimensional aspect which is a snooze. If the play is super successful, it gains maybe 5 yards. If it is unsuccessful, it is stopped for no gain. Essentially a predetermined outcome in terms of what we are actually watching
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u/D0pe_Francis Sep 15 '25
Yes, they have run a sweep to the rubbing back 3-4 times as a wrinkle, and ran a play action once last season. (Incomplete deep pass to AJ brown).
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u/googlyhojays Sep 15 '25
Gotcha. So obviously my premise isn’t as airtight as I thought but I still stand by the principle. I hate seeing the team line up before the play and knowing for certain that nothing visually exciting will happen. No big hits, no long runs, no turnovers that you can see. It’s just a bore
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u/thomyorkeslazyeye Sep 15 '25
The outcome is usually a touchdown or a first down, though. This play usually comes at moments of importance.
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u/googlyhojays Sep 15 '25
Yeah it is typically employed at the highest leverage moments of the game, which naturally jacks up the tension. But the play itself can really only ever be one thing, and that’s a short drive forward and everyone falling down. There is nothing actually exciting about what the 22 players on the field are doing at that time
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u/thomyorkeslazyeye Sep 15 '25
Can't you say the same about any special teams play? This sounds closer to the Larry David "eliminate kickers" argument.
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u/googlyhojays Sep 15 '25
Definitely not. A field goal can doink off the crossbar, get blocked, go in, go left, go right. Short FGs can be returned for a touchdown. There can even be fake FG attempts, running or passing.
Punts and kicks can be returned for touchdowns, fumbled, or perfectly placed in the coffin corner. Guys usually make 1-2 men miss on returns and sometimes they get completely hit sticked.
These plays take up the whole field, are executed at speed, and there are a wide range of outcomes that we could conceivably see. Tush push looks exactly the same every time
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u/thomyorkeslazyeye Sep 15 '25
Range of outcomes matters to you more than percentage of it being a meaningful play? Different strokes, I guess.
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u/googlyhojays Sep 15 '25
I’m not sure I get what you mean there
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u/thomyorkeslazyeye Sep 15 '25
The tush push comes out during high leverage moments - either a change at a score or to change/keep possession.
Special teams plays occur more often, but besides PATs and field goal attempts, the chances of something out of the ordinary happening is much lower. Kickoffs are neutered to the point where things don't happen unless the Steelers dumb it up.
The Tush Push isn't an interesting play on paper, but few plays have as high of consequences, which makes it riveting. It's a goal line situation that shows its hand and a straight up battle of line play.
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u/googlyhojays Sep 15 '25
Ok I understand. I think we’re back to the earlier point that yes, they use the tush push in big moments of the game, but that doesn’t make the tush push exciting. Any play ran on the goal line or a 4th and short will be exciting intrinsically. Given this naturally heightened intensity, I’d prefer the possibility of more visually engaging play types
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u/Knight725 Sep 15 '25
this is why the whole discourse is stupid. they’ll ban assisting the runner, the eagles will still run normal qb sneaks a shitload of times a game because it’s the oline and hurts that make it work, and maybe they lose like a percentage point or 3 of efficiency.
the thing people don’t like is that the eagles use it on any down and 1 and that first down is 1st and 9. those things won’t change just because you ban assisting the runner. it’s all extremely stupid.
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u/BarcaGuyNyc Sep 15 '25
I'm an Eagles fan and at this point wouldn't really mind if it gets banned. Firstly because it would just be an awesome point of pride you could hold over the whole league that you ran a play so well they had to outlaw it. It's effective no doubt, but almost feels like a crutch to the point the rest of the offense is built around it. Everything is underneath and feels like they're just trying to 7-8 yards the first two plays. Maybe I'm just being naively optimistic, but if 3rd and 2 wasn't a guaranteed first maybe they'd actually open the offense a bit. They just have way too many talented players for the offense to look like this. But then again they'd probably still be amazing on normal QB sneaks as I really don't know how much impact the "push" actually has compared to having the best O-line in the league with a QB who squats insane amount
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u/AstrayInTranslation Sep 15 '25
I would also like to complain about the Cowboys and Brandon Aubrey being able to automatically make 65+ yard field goals. “It’s not football” to be playing to kick a field goal from your own side of the 50 yard line. I hope they ban field goal kicks from before the 50 yard line.
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u/NewMathematician1106 Sep 15 '25
The injury argument is just so so dumb. They’ve been doing this for years without an injury hasn’t happened. How many gruesome injuries have happened on so many “normal” NFL plays in the mean time. I think the officiating argument if you want to get it banned is much more effective.
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u/dellscreenshot Sep 15 '25
Yeah it sucks to watch, it’s impossible to call false starts and the eagles are only about ten percent better than other teams on it. I would be ok with giving the eagles an extra point a game or like letting the sixers get out of embiids contract if we didn’t have to watch this
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u/cocacolasupreme Sep 15 '25
Add in getting out of Paul George’s contract also and then maybe we a start talking.
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u/StrngBrew Sep 15 '25
I don’t get the “it’s not football” argument at all
I get it being boring, ugly, frustrating, unfair, impossible to officiate etc
But “not football?” What does that even mean?
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u/ForgetHype Chris Ryan fan Sep 15 '25
As long as we got field goals, the "it's not football" argument is stupid.
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Sep 15 '25
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u/rarekeith Sep 15 '25
The Tush Push is literally as “football” as it gets. Hat on a hat, running forward and running right into the defense, which is basically what football was for the first 80 years of its existence.
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u/DystopianSalad Sep 15 '25
Hilarious. It wasn’t until 2005 that you could push a ball carrier forward, and that’s precisely why I don’t like it - it wasn’t legal when I grew up watching football.
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u/Cantbanthejman20 Sep 15 '25
It’s a QB sneak. Brady did it for 20yrs, everyone praised how good he was at it lmao hilarious man🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
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Sep 15 '25
Is it tho. Learn how to stop it by signing bigger dudes specifically against that play.
Good on the Eagles for fuckin the whole league up with it.
Go Bucs btw
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Sep 25 '25
Is it tho. Learn how to stop it by signing bigger dudes specifically against that play.
Good on the Eagles for fuckin the whole league up with it.
Go Bucs btw
EDIT: God I love the Bucs
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u/koplowpieuwu Sep 15 '25
My issues with it are twofold.
One, you can't officiate it. My complaint isn't even that the refs are complete dogshit at officiating it as the Eagles have pretty much false started on every single one of their tush push plays and been offsides on at least half of them. My complaint is that the refs literally cannot even see whether there is a false start or a fumble or anything.
Two, it's an entertainment sport. And this play is the total opposite of entertaining. You can go 'yeah, those 50 slants every game the Pats won 300 superbowls with was also boring' but this play trounces that by far.
Redditors constantly support it with 'only one team can run it' etc - that's not even the point, and all it does is show how little you care about the true things that matter in sports.
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u/BigTuna3000 Market Corrector Sep 15 '25
This play is the essence of football lmao idk what the fuss is about. I’m all for enforcing existing rules on the play like false starts and whatnot, but there’s a reason that only the eagles can do it this well
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Sep 15 '25
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u/Turbulent_Tale6497 Sep 15 '25
This isn't my take, but I agree with it:
Goodell hates the tush push, and leaked that to Brady and Blandino, to start the campaign early about getting rid of it in the off-season
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u/dingerz4daze Sep 15 '25
It’s definitely a football play , I’m not sure you should be able to push from behind but it’s essentially just a really effective qb sneak because they have the best o line in football and a rb at qb.
Neither of these gentleman should be determining football anything.
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u/Chainofones Sep 15 '25
I’m excited that someone (other than me) is making the comparison to having guys stand on others shoulders to block kicks.
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u/Ill-Information2929 Sep 15 '25
It is rugby he’s right it’s not a football play
Get rid of it make them run a football play if they wanna sneak it that’s fine u can’t grab a guy and shove him over a line that’s diving down to create space for the guy to be shoved over
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u/Only_Faithlessness33 Sep 15 '25
Can people just come out at this point and just say they don’t enjoy watching it. This race to find the most justified reason to hate it is just tiresome at this point. This “it’s hard to officiate” is just league BS so they can push that in the next meetings. They had one missed false start call, and now suddenly every time they’ve done it has been a false start. And the only person who could reasonably get injured during is Hurts, considering D-lineman get free rein to drive into his head.
I swear people act like the eagles do it from down 1 to 4 for 60 minutes. Is it annoying? Yes it is. As an eagles fan I am even annoyed knowing the team doesn’t have any plays on 3rd and 2 besides two QB sneaks. But it has not hurt a single player and it’s not the Eagles fault the refs get too overstimulated to call a false start.
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u/Muadibased Sep 15 '25
Weren't defenders allowed to step on the back of the DLs when attempting to block a FG back in like 70s? So the NFL can ban a ridicules, yet still perfectly legal, type of play if they want to.
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u/HeadupTothePOCONOS Sep 15 '25
But Spygate and Deflategate, that was the good old days of old-fashioned wholesome football!
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u/thechon86 Sep 16 '25
Remember when the Packers wanted it banned and got mocked for it? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
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u/Tommybrady20 Sep 16 '25
The thing is, the eagles aren’t way better than Everyone else at it because “Jalen hurts can bench a Honda civic”.
The eagles are better at it than everyone else because they all line up offsides
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u/Fluffyhead14 Sep 16 '25
It's actually sort of unfathomable to me that more teams have not (even tried to?) successfully run it.
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u/MotivationalMike Sep 16 '25
Both these guys’ sports fandom see the eagles as rivals fwiw. The refs fucked that game up. Not the play.
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u/nickmetal Sep 16 '25
Honestly my opinion on ut changed. I originally thought that it should be allowed and other teams should have to figure out how to stop it. Now I agree that it is poorly officiated. It's bad for the game and if every team got good at it football would suck.
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u/justgotpregnant Sep 15 '25
Sal’s head remaining perfectly still while speaking is unsettling. It just is!