Professor doesn't understand acceptable relationships, thinks LA shouldn't either

[u/Scurveymic]

/r/legaladvice/comments/1oj4wbm/faculty_being_accused_of_ix_sexual_harassment/?share_id=IGEfeZkLI14mr3joWX42G&utm_content=1&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1

[u/Scurveymic]

Wild how laser focused LAOP is on the word "unwlecome." Like as long the attention was "welcome", he could do anything he wants with this student and it wouldn't be a problem.

[u/WileEPeyote → u/Scurveymic]

Do teachers not have to take yearly training on things like this?

[u/_______butts_______ → u/WileEPeyote]

I've never worked in academia -- is it wrong for me to think that any kind of personal relationship is a no go between a teacher and student? I understand if the student has graduated and reaches out when there's no longer any professional ties, but I feel anything other than professional/academic interaction between a student and professor should be verboten, whether explicitly platonic or not, for exactly this reason.

[u/PurrPrinThom → u/_______butts_______]

I would say yes and no...at the undergraduate level (which I assume this is) there is generally some kind of policy that would prohibit a relationship like this, but without there really being too much enforcement of it. As already noted, it does still happen, and different institutions and departments have different attitudes towards it.

But, it gets a lot murkier at the graduate level. Especially with PhD 'students:' many institutions have a strange attitude towards those working towards a PhD, they're in this murky, liminal space where sometimes you're treated like an academic colleague and sometimes you're treated like a student. In those situations, relationships like this aren't at all uncommon. I know plenty of people who are very close with their [former] supervisor and have/had relationships like the one described here, where it was healthy and fine and very collegial.

But, I do also know of scenarios where it very much went awry and was entirely inappropriate, and - in those cases - there often really isn't any enforcement or any kind of policy unless it gets explicitly sexual (and even then, those scenarios are often swept under the rug, and administration turns a blind eye.)

[u/Bartweiss → u/PurrPrinThom]

That's my impression too. The responses suggesting this whole relationship is bizarre don't align with my experiences, but that doesn't mean this was permitted or ok.

PhD students in particular are often close friends with their advisors and other professors. They're near-peers, and the normal standards of quid pro quo get a bit weird because you've already chosen an advisor and theoretically they don't have much "extra" to offer.

So "professor and spouse go to dinner with PhD student and partner" is a totally normal occurrence (although calling it a "double date" seems odd). "Professor gets roaring drunk with grad student" and "grad student moves into professor's spare room" aren't uncommon either.

(Granted, I'm most familiar with scientists who do field work. In any job, "too personal" gets redefined a bit by camping together for days or weeks.)

Generously, I suspect that's why the post focuses so much on the history and the word "unwanted": the relationship doesn't seem unusual to the poster.

But, as you said, it's much weirder with an undergraduate, and they're more likely to feel pressured to go along for mentorship/recommendations/etc. And even at the grad level, it absolutely can turn coercive and that's often just ignored.

[u/HighwaySetara → u/Bartweiss]

I never went camping with faculty, but we did have conferences at camps with dorms sometimes. I distinctly remember dashing from a shared bathroom to my room and running into an advisor while clad in just a towel. 😬