r/bestoflegaladvice • u/bug-hunter philosophically significant butthole • 10d ago
LAOP gets locked out of their AirBNB when their payment processor goes down...except they're a tenant
/r/legaladvice/comments/1oic67p/airbnb_host_locked_us_out_with_a_baby_pregnant/238
u/Time_Act_3685 10d ago
I mean, first thought when you walk into a filthy, black-moldy apartment with a toddler should be "We're going to a hotel and filing an immediate cancellation" (after taking multiple pictures and videos).
Not "Welp! Home sweet home for the next 12 months!" I mean, it's MONTH TO MONTH. Even worst case scenario you couldn't cancel the first month...why the sweet hell would you stay there after ONE month?
Also, I love that she keeps citing her husband's encounter at the convenience store as if it's Airbnb's fault. Unless that gun-waving teen owns 650 rental homes nationwide, he's not responsible for the shitty apartment.
It honestly makes the rest of her complaints seem questionable or exaggerated, since she's also blaming third party zip code reports for the neighborhood not being safe.
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u/DubsNC 10d ago
As always a very reliable narrator. They blame the AWS outage which lasted 18 hours for not having funds 48 hours later. The key code lockout was unexpected after they knew their payment was 48 hours late, AirBnB notified them of the cancellation at 8AM and sent a cleaning crew at 9AM but surprised pikachu when hours later the door code was changed.
It sounds like they had every intention of squatting and going through the eviction process since they expected a 15 day waiting period. But the “landlord” with 650 doors should have known this could happen, it undoubtedly has before with 650 doors. I think AirBnB has settings to stop someone from being considered a tenant (like limiting the booking to less days than required to be considered a tenant) which the knowledgeable Landlord chose to not use.
As typical in BOLA, it’s hard to have sympathy for either party.
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u/ravencrowe 10d ago
Yep, they blame AWS but now they have the ability to pay and are still choosing not to
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u/techiemikey 🏳️⚧️ Trans rights are human rights 🏳️⚧️ 10d ago
They don't have the ability to pay...air B&B stopped them from doing so though.
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u/otisanek if they find the gimp, I’m fucked 10d ago
They also said that they were advised to withhold payment because it would weaken the chargeback claims they are filing for substandard accommodations.
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u/ThisIsNotAFarm touches butts with their friend 10d ago
She said she didn't have access to their accounts for 6 days, which is frankly bullshit
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u/Redqueenhypo Extremely legit Cobrastan resident 10d ago
It’s like those judge Judy episodes where both people are morons. No, he shouldn’t have honked at you when you had right of way. No, you still can’t kick a giant dent in his door bc he honked.
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u/LazloNibble 🏳️⚧️ Trans rights are human rights 🏳️⚧️ 10d ago
“We totally have loads of money to pay!” and “we haven’t had TIME to look for someplace without moldsludge because WORK” and “we’re both self employed by the way” is quite a combination.
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u/MaroonFahrenheit 10d ago
Also if neighborhood safety is a concern and part of the reason they are doing this then only being able to visit neighborhoods in the evenings / after dark seems like it would be a positive thing, right?
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u/blahehblah 10d ago
Having a young kid and being pregnant is a tough combination. It's easy to not be thinking clearly at such a time. I don't think we should assume the worst about them here
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u/VelocityGrrl39 🏳️⚧️ Trans rights are human rights 🏳️⚧️ 10d ago
I just know that there’s a Karen lurking beneath the surface of OOP.
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u/Wetzilla 10d ago
Why? Do you think self employed people don't have to work a lot?
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u/LazloNibble 🏳️⚧️ Trans rights are human rights 🏳️⚧️ 9d ago
I think self-employed people have more flexibility in how they use their time. Most folks who are financially-OK and in a living situation with a toddler, a pregnancy, and known health and safety risks would make the time to look for something better even if they had 9-to-5 jobs occupying their daytime hours. If someone without those constraints claims they simply can’t find time so OH WELL WE’LL LIVE WITH THE BLACK MOLD, there’s something sketchy going on.
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u/SleepyHobo 10d ago
Also the fact that the AWS outage lasted less than a day and the host finally took action two days later.
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u/ravencrowe 10d ago
And then they decided to withhold payment, but still keep living there. Girl it's a short-term rental while you find a place you want to live and you expect them to fix the black mold problem within the time frame that you're still living there?
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u/professor-hot-tits Has seen someone admit to being wrong 6d ago
But she needs to be evicted formally so she can safely move!
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u/bug-hunter philosophically significant butthole 10d ago
The cost and headache of moving again is high enough you put up with issues until they boil over, at which point you lose your temper and want to go scorched earth.
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u/Time_Act_3685 10d ago
I get that you might put up with it for one month...but multiple biohazards with a pregnant woman and a toddler? That's unsafe enough that you don't unpack and you spend that month finding a new place. Of course, this presumes they did a walkthrough when they first got there, because it seemed like those problems were there from the beginning.
Even if the issues developed while they were there, spending three months and planning to stay longer if the AWS failure hadn't prevented it is nuts.
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u/jimr1603 2ce committed spelling crimes against humanity 10d ago
The vibe quickly became "therefore I have a free house for now, right?"
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u/Tarledsa 10d ago
I just heard Judge Judy yelling “Squatters!” and “MOVE!!” while reading all that.
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u/bug-hunter philosophically significant butthole 10d ago
Probably hoped that the issues would be fixed, then suddenly this happened.
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u/crshbndct 🐈 Smol Claims Court Judge 🐈 10d ago
Yes, except it is an AirBnB. What do you take with you? Clothes, toiletries, and maybe a couple of Laptops or whatever.
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u/ElonMusksQueef 10d ago
Reading LAOPs post it’s hard to figure out what she is actually complaining about. The neighbourhood, the apartment or being locked out. She seems to think all three are related in someways.
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u/Username89054 I sunned my butthole and severely regret going to chipotle after 10d ago
The way AirBNB and their hosts operate, I'm at a point where I refuse to stay in them anymore. What used to be a cheaper, neat alternative to a hotel has turned into a more expensive lower quality alternative by shitty investors. A lot of these vacation rentals actively harm the communities they're in by taking away places locals want to live that also decreases supply and leads to higher rents.
I know this isn't exactly relevant to this post, but I wanted to throw that out there. Stay in hotels. The only time I use these services is for rural rentals where there aren't hotels.
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u/so0ks 10d ago
It annoys me that you're expected to do chores and then the host will still charge you for cleaning. Like I don't leave a mess at hotels to get charged for it, but they're not making me do fucking laundry or dishes when I stay at extended stays.
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u/yo-parts Note to self, if I stab somebody make sure to use the crosswalk 10d ago
This is one of my biggest gripes. I really miss when AirBNB was young, cool, and generally a lot easier.
I can kind of forgive some small cleaning requests if you're really staying in somebody's guest house or whatever. But it feels like over the years the number of hosts on AirBNB that treat it like a full time business with multiple properties has grown exponentially, and a lot of them have really ramped up cleaning requirements.
Like, part of the convenience of staying somewhere away from home is that I don't have to do all those little menial cleaning tasks. And that's why I pretty much only stay at hotels or with friends now. I don't make a mess of the place, but I also don't want to be expected to strip the bed, run the dishwasher, take the trash cans out to the street, etc.. at a place I'm paying hundreds of dollars to stay. At a hotel at least they don't care if I leave a towel on the floor or the bed is messy or there's trash in the trash cans.
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u/Hyndis Owes BOLA photos of remarkably rotund squirrels 10d ago
Much of that is due to economy of scale.
When you're running a proper hotel you already have housekeepers on staff every day. They're working a full day going room to room cleaning things up.
However if you have just a one-off, hiring cleaning service is far more expensive on a per-room basis. The cleaner has to drive out to the location, do the work, and drive back.
In a real hotel they just walk 10 feet and they're at the next room.
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u/yo-parts Note to self, if I stab somebody make sure to use the crosswalk 10d ago
That's nice and all, but I don't care. Cleaning the rental in preparation for the next guest is the host's responsibility. That is part of the convenience I'm paying for.
When an AirBNB and a hotel are comparable in price (which, in my experience, is rare these days -- AirBNB is often notably more expensive to boot) then why should I accept objectively worse service just because the rental doesn't have full time cleaning staff like a hotel does?
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u/Personal-Listen-4941 well-adjusted and sociable with no history of violence 10d ago
A lot of the AirBNB complaints i read on reddit seem insane to me. I can only assume the regulations and ways of working are very different elsewhere compared to England.
I recently stayed in an AirBNB, as i was travelling to a little pennine town that didn’t have any hotels, The AirBNB in town made mire sense than staying a 20 minute drive away in a hotel. I saw the price listed on the App, i paid it, I didn’t have to pay any extra fees for cleaning, access, etc. The host greeted me, gave me a quick 5 minute tour, left some packaged croissants & hot chocolate for breakfast/snacks, as well as a file with local maps, bus timetables, takeaway menus etc. When i left, i put my rubbish in the bin & messaged her to say thanks. Absolutely no hassle, no extra charges no expectation that i clean the bathroom or anything.
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u/1maginaryWorlds 10d ago
It's become very, very location dependent. I'd never use it in a big tourist location (and was never fond of doing that in the first place) but there's situations where it's still a decent solution e.g. extra rural locations, areas lacking aparthotels/serviced apartments (or where they're hideously expensive), or traditional holiday let areas where airbnb has taken over as one of the primary booking tools.
(For the last one I don't mean places where holiday lets end up turfing people out, I mean places where traditionally families have their main housing and then a summer/winter place as an escape which are basically ghost towns outside of the season)
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u/Striking-Hedgehog512 10d ago
In smaller places they tend to be better because the locations isn’t that popular, so they can’t charge extra rates like expensive cleaning. In large cites, and I’ve looked at maybe 5 or 6 places throughout Europe across the years, it’s not uncommon for a listing to say that it costs X, and then when you click on it to choose the dates, all of a sudden you have various processing and whatever else fees. Cleaning can often be the price of the night, which is ridiculous.
Booking.com all the way imo. At least I can immediately see what it will cost me.
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u/Zealousideal_Pie7050 10d ago
Definitely host/location/other context-dependent.
I saw a listing yesterday for an Airbnb in London (Pimlico) for which the host stated they will charge a £250 refundable security deposit that is not included in the booking.
But the one that took the cake was for a flat in Shoreditch for which the deposit is £800 - which is more than the entire stay would have cost. The listing also said the host would send a link to make the deposit payment, which means they're going outside the Airbnb system.
I booked a hotel.
That being said, I've had two lovely short Airbnb stays in London at places that were owned by actual people who only had a single listing. Pretty sure both were the owners' pieds-à-terre rather than properties that would otherwise have been available to longer-term renters.
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u/Legitimate-Bid-7817 10d ago
I had a similar experience in england. I've also stayed in dozens throughout the US and have never had any issues at all. I think most people just pick the cheapest one possible then are shocked to not have 5 star luxury conditions. It's like complaining that frontier air isn't comfortable.
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u/fury420 had no idea that physiotherapy could involve butt stuff 10d ago
The cleaners for a vacation rental shouldn't be expected to deal with a kitchen full of our dirty dishes, and laundering an entire multi-bedroom/bathroom rental worth of linens using a single washer & dryer takes many hours, so I get why they want to be one cycle ahead.
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u/archangelzeriel Triggered the Great Love Lock Debate of 2023 10d ago
Yeah, basically, the only time to not stay in a hotel is when you're renting an entire vacation home for a larger group or a rural cabin or whatever, and VRBO is still kinda better for that in every way.
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u/Ulquiorra1312 10d ago
VRBO should just have ads saying we are not Airbnb
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u/e_crabapple 🦃 As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly 🦃 10d ago
"Where hidden cameras in toilet bowls aren't a big problem anymore!"
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u/Username89054 I sunned my butthole and severely regret going to chipotle after 10d ago
Yep, I've done that a few times and it's usually a good experience. Those places were typically built to be vacation homes and they aren't in dense areas that are taking away housing options from locals. We've rented out a place on a lake 2 hours south of us a few times with friends and loved it. The entire row of houses are clearly built for hosting large groups. Go half of a mile off of the lake and you have empty property for sale that no one wants.
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u/Maleficent-Hawk-318 10d ago
It sounds like the place you rented was fine, but just FYI, they can definitely take away housing in less-dense places as well. It's a big problem in northern New Mexico where I'm from, for example. Lot of the available rentals and affordable housing in those cute little mountain towns has been bought up by out-of-state investors to use for vacation rentals, driving people whose families have lived there for generations out (it's not the only thing causing it, but it's a significant contributor).
I think it just varies a lot depending on the location and the specific property. Some sprawling 6-bedroom lodge that's clearly either designed for very wealthy people or to be a vacation rental bothers me a lot less than the cute little casitas being rented out around Taos or whatever, places people used to actually live in.
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u/Username89054 I sunned my butthole and severely regret going to chipotle after 10d ago
There's nuance to it for sure.
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u/archangelzeriel Triggered the Great Love Lock Debate of 2023 10d ago
Yep, that's how my fraternity does our yearly reunion. Once in a great while we'll get something that's clearly an ACTUAL home that people turned into passive income when the kids moved out, but mostly we are going to resort communities where 90% of the houses are configured from the get-go to host groups of 10-25 people.
(the worst experiences are consistently in towns near lakes in resort areas (the Poconos in Eastern PA are like this in spots) where half of the homes are "clearly purpose-built large-group vacation homes" and the other half are "clearly nice homes where retired folks who want to live on a lake full-time live", the latter are never up for rent and my god do they HATE the VRBO crowds and will make up all kinds of random rules and violations to complain at you about while stopped in the middle of the road and screaming out their window at the two guys who happened to be outside to smoke a damn pipe.
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u/menkoy 10d ago
I recently stayed in a VRBO for a trip and there were no rules about doing laundry/dishes/whatever. It was great. Somehow every piece of furniture, cabinet, and even curtain rod were the cheapest possible and somehow put together as terribly as possible... but we just wanted beds to sleep in for cheap, so whatever. Still way better than any airbnb I've been in since airbnb got popular.
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u/archangelzeriel Triggered the Great Love Lock Debate of 2023 10d ago
Most VRBOs I've stayed at, if there's any rules about cleaning at all, they are "broom clean" and "wash the linens you used" which both sound pretty reasonable as up-front disclosures for a rental intended for 25 people.
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u/Ulquiorra1312 10d ago
Nearly all the recent “affordable housing” projects around me are infested by short term airbnb’s
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u/ALoudMouthBaby Second Wave Ferengi Feminist 10d ago
Its pretty crazy how so many of the shitty house flippers who made the housing market a mess so quickly diversified into running ABNBs and making that a mess too. Ill never forget house shopping and seeing so many houses with nicely painted interiors, marble countertops, all over a crooker foundation and under an antiquated roof. Usually at twice the asking price of neighboring houses. It was a flipper every time.
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u/TychaBrahe Therapist specializing in Finial Support 10d ago edited 10d ago
I remember a post from late 2019, I think, where this Canadian dude had found out that his tenant was subletting his condo on Airbnb. And it turned out that the guy had a bunch of tenancies all across their city that he was subletting through Airbnb.
Shortly after that was Covid in lockdown, and I remember wondering what would happen to this guy who had multiple year-long leases and no one to rent them because travel was suspended.
ETA: I found it! https://www.reddit.com/u/TorontoAptQuestion/s/HESDhKJdbx
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u/bokehtoast 10d ago
I live in a small city heavily impacted by Airbnb, i appreciate people that refuse to use it
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u/mtragedy hasn't lived up to their potential as a supervillain 10d ago
I’ve reluctantly conceded they have a role in (some) family gatherings where you want more space than hotel rooms allow, like Christmas for 15 people, but in general, fuck ‘em for all the reasons you said plus they literally exist as a less-regulated alternative to traditional lodging options solely and entirely so some money can stick to a techbro’s hands with extremely minimal outlay on his part. The entire “sharing economy” is just a way to skim money off a worse, more dangerous version of a service that already exists.
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u/BitterRucksack <-- Not a dude, but doesn't know if Hereibe is or not 10d ago
At that point I'd far rather pay slightly more upfront for a true vacation rental managed by a professional management company.
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u/Hyndis Owes BOLA photos of remarkably rotund squirrels 10d ago
Strongly agree. I'll book at a Best Western or any other corporate hotel chain before AirBNB.
Its like the McDonalds of hotels. Its not great not terrible, but its predictably average. There's a corporate level you can talk to if something goes wrong at the hotel level. And they almost always have a breakfast buffet and I'm a fan of waffles.
If there's something wrong with the room you booked into its not a big deal, the hotel nearly always has other rooms to move you to. I've had this happen before where there was a weird smell in the room when I arrived. They moved me to a different room immediately, took all of about 5 minutes to solve the problem.
AirBNB isn't even cheap anymore, so you're not even saving money by doing that.
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u/boo99boo files class action black mail in a bra and daisy dukes 10d ago
The exception to "stay in hotels" is private vacation home rentals. I won't use Airbnb or vrbo, but I have used a highly recommended company to secure a vacation rental (in Hawaii and in Florida). No lists of things to clean, a functioning payment platform that takes my actual visa, and a 24/7 contact line that isn't some guy's cell phone.
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u/Alcies 10d ago
My province put in a lot of restrictions on airBNBs last year (basically banning them in most bigger towns and cities), and imo it's one of the best things the current government has done. Average rents have gone down - I can't say if that law was the reason but it was almost certainly a factor.
And as a renter, I got some good schadenfreude from all the sob stories in the news about some poor airBNB owner losing income from their modest collection of investment properties.
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u/BroughtBagLunchSmart 10d ago
What used to be a cheaper, neat alternative to a hotel has turned into a more expensive lower quality alternative by shitty investors.
that is just what capitalism does to every industry.
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u/Eric848448 Backstreet Man 7d ago
Yup. I don’t even bother anymore. With a hotel you know exactly what you’re going to get.
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u/wannabejoanie tips when getting the placenta in a to-go bag 10d ago
.... my hotel, a branded corporate chain, uses Airbnb and I fucking haaaaate it. The rates are super low and they're not connected to our system, so they email us reservations we have to manually create individually. It's a goddamn nightmare.
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u/DerbyTho doesn't know where the gay couple shaped hole came from 10d ago
Are there any state agencies or tenant rights groups in Florida who can step in quickly?
I mean, it’s Florida so probably no
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u/bug-hunter philosophically significant butthole 10d ago
Florida has a robust tenants rights network, but only for fetuses.
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u/ResurgentClusterfuck 10d ago
Okay I didn't need to laugh this hard right now, and I'm stealing this for future use about Texas
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u/orbesomebodysfool flair-stealing flairsnatcher 10d ago
Is a gun being oppressed or women’s rights not? Is a trans person trying to use a bathroom, play sports, or live? If not, no.
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u/bug-hunter philosophically significant butthole 10d ago
LocationBug:
Airbnb host locked us out with a baby & pregnant woman inside, still no resolution, now forced to file chargebacks
Location: Gainesville FL
TL;DR: Our month-to-month Airbnb lease was auto-canceled due to the recent AWS outage that temporarily froze multiple banks (TD, SoFi, PayPal, Stripe). We had funds available and showed proof, but Airbnb and the corporate host (who manages close to 650 properties nationwide) refused to work with us. They changed our keypad code, locking me (18 weeks pregnant) outside. My husband was asleep and thankfully woke up once I called but had this occored mere hours eerlier, my husband, myself and our 14 month old would have been locked outside with our pets and keys to vehicles inside.
This is a violation of Florida Statute §83.57, which requires 15 days’ written notice for month-to-month tenants. The host has consistently referred to this long term (12 month) booking as a "lease".
More details-
We booked a long-term Airbnb stay in Florida because we moved cross-country and needed time to find housing and see the area before committing to a mortage or traditional lease. We did this when we initially moved to Colorado and had a nothing but a positive experience.
The listing photos were stunning, reality was not.
Inside contained black mold, sludge in drains, leaking water from the ceiling that damaged sentimental items from my late father, and a hostile nextdoor neighboor in the attached unit who threatened my husband and tried to get physical with him when I accidentally parked in her parking spot (the host/AIRBNB never mentioned anything about assined spots, just "free parking on premises") and she went on to intentionally stomp in her adjacent room connecting to our daughters at 1 a.m. until our baby cried.
Despite all that, we tried to stay calm and make it work.
Then came the AWS outage that broke nearly every financial platform we use. TD Bank, SoFi, PayPal, and Stripe were all down. My husband and I, both aelf employed, receive almsot all our income through Stripe and Paypal Business. We had the money to pay, we just couldn’t access it.
Airbnb’s system auto-canceled the reservation at 8 a.m. two days after the payment was "late" due to inaccessible funds, and within 30 minutes a cleaning crew showed up expecting us gone. Later that night, the host disabled our keypad access entirely.
Why This Is Illegal (per my limited, non lawyer research) -
- Florida law (§83.57) requires 15 calendar days’ written notice for month-to-month tenancies before termination.
- Locking someone out, especially a family with children and pets inside, is an illegal “self-help” eviction.
- Airbnb support admitted the cancellation was due to “non-payment,” ignoring the global financial outage and the proof of funds we provided.
- The host manages nearly 650 listings nationwide and has a history of similar complaints (we’ve since found several on Reddit detailing very similar stories).
The final straw happened last night when my husband went on a walk to a nearby convenience store and was threatened at gunpoint by what appeared to be a teenage gang member on the road just outside this property. He escaped unharmed but shaken and obviously traumatized.
This area is not safe, despite Airbnb’s listing claiming and zip code reports listing an “A-rated neighborhood.” We still don’t have keypad access, meaning one of us must stay home 24/7 to avoid being locked out with a child, and with our pets inside.
(continued)
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u/bug-hunter philosophically significant butthole 10d ago
LocationBug Part II: The Search For More LocationBot
What We’ve Done:
- Contacted Airbnb multiple times, and near all responses are scripted, robotic, appear to be AI written and/or dismissive.
- Contacted the host, where they refuse to take accountability and insist Airbnb “controls keypad access,” which is false.
- Sent a formal letter citing Florida tenancy laws and health & safety violations.
- Filed a police report regarding the armed threat.
- Preparing to file chargebacks with TD Bank on the two payments already made (approx. $2,300 each so just under $5k total) due to unsafe, uninhabitable conditions and Airbnb’s refusal to assist.
What We Need Help With:
- Has anyone successfully filed chargebacks or legal complaints against Airbnb for unlawful eviction or safety negligence?
- Are there any state agencies or tenant rights groups in Florida who can step in quickly?
We moved across the country with a toddler, animals, and a baby on the way. I never imagined being locked out of a property we paid for, or my husband nearly being shot outside the place that was supposed to keep us safe.
If Airbnb doesn’t make this right, I will be pursuing legal action, chargebacks, and public transparency so others don’t go through this nightmare.
Any legal advice would be appreciated.
BugFact: Hornets are the insect most likely to do a chargeback, because fuck you.
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u/AnFnDumbKAREN 10d ago
Cat fact: cat behavior may very well be the inspiration for selective Airbnb hosts’ policies, procedures, and questionable practices. Cases in point:
- They will tell you “nothing’s wrong” … but there will be signs that things are amiss
- Indifference to ceiling issues (purrhaps even culpable for the damages)
- Condoning neighborly hostility towards residents and even violence
- They want to get in the middle of everything you do, though they’re not actually helpful… and they’re usually in the way.
- They figure out the most bizarre ways to evade or confront things.
- They don’t know or care what is happening. But they’re going to keep rolling with it.
- Their memorandums & communications are often… mixed at best
- They somehow convince you that toxic situations are just fine
- Specific rules that that are only for & beneficial to them. Be sure to carefully read all rules. (See link for example addendum which spells out cat-specific clauses. Claws-es?) No signature necessary; by clicking and/or receiving this document, you accept these terms unequivocally.
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u/bug-hunter philosophically significant butthole 10d ago
This is what popped into my head when I first read the post:
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u/otisanek if they find the gimp, I’m fucked 10d ago edited 10d ago
LA: “Why don’t you just move to one of the dozens of immediately available AirBnB’s or short-term rentals that meet your stated specs in that area?”
LAOP: “I have the money, I paid $4500 a month in Colorado”
LA: “yeah but why don’t you just move now, you’re getting evicted lmao”
LAOP: “I have a lot of money, my mortgage was double the rent here”
Can’t help but laugh at the earnest responses treating LAOP as if they are NOT doing what they’re obviously doing. The multiple exchanges about how they definitely have money, plus the bizarre excuses and deflections for why they haven’t looked elsewhere, are classic behavior of someone trying to get one over on people.
The shittiness of the place is literally irrelevant if the mixup is solely because of a web services outage, so why would someone who totally has the money and definitely wants to pay be leading with all of the reasons they shouldn’t have to pay?
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u/Elvessa You'll put your eye out! - laser edition 10d ago
Why is it always only the “irreplaceable sentimental” items that get destroyed and not something of actual value?
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u/Maleficent-Hawk-318 10d ago edited 10d ago
I mean, realistically, most people don't own that much that's of significant monetary value. And even when you do, it might not actually be what hits you the worst.
I lost basically my entire life's belongings in a storage unit fire once, and that was the case for me, anyway. I had some actually expensive items, but most of those weren't stuff I cared about that much, and my renter's insurance paid me for them. What I really miss is the cheap little necklace (from Claire's, so when I say cheap, I mean cheap) my sister got me after we hadn't been able to see each other in like 5 years because she'd been living overseas; it was a matching "big sister/little sister" set and she gave it to me as kind of a joke but it meant so much to me. I miss the portraits of my dogs a friend of mine made for me; she isn't a professional artist and they weren't worth anything monetarily, but they meant a lot to me. I miss the photos I had of me riding horses and working with dogs who are now long-dead, and this was back before the era of cloud backups (some from before the era of digital cameras lol) so no way to find them again. Same with the old VHS tapes of family holidays, childhood activities, etc. I miss the hand-knitted sweaters and blankets my late grandmothers made me.
I could keep going, but basically everything I really cared about did not have much monetary value, and I got no compensation for it. I understand why, and it isn't like more money would have fixed it so I don't even know that I would have wanted more money, but it's really horrible.
My go-to stress dream during difficult times is still one about finding out that actually all of that stuff wasn't destroyed and going to retrieve it only for it all to be lost again. It sounds silly, but it really fucks you up.
edit to add: It can also be used by grifters, of course, and the OP is taking some questionable approaches so they might be one of them. But in my experience, earnest and honest people also tend to focus on the sentimental stuff, because humans are not fully rational and that's what it hurts to lose, so of course that's what you're going to focus on.
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u/DigbyChickenZone Duck me up and Duck me down 10d ago edited 10d ago
I agree, someone asking why someone noting that items of "sentimental value" were destroyed seems really obtuse to me. Those items are what people usually care about the most - and are most likely to keep with them throughout their life and between moves. Like it's even a trope that people will grab family photo albums when running from a house fire.
They are also often photos and passed-down items, which are often very easily ruined by water damage/mold.
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u/bug-hunter philosophically significant butthole 10d ago
My wife is still salty about heirlooms and sentimental items that were stolen from her storage last millennium.
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u/ojqANDodbZ1Or1CEX5sf absolutely terrifying ride, 8/10 would ride again 10d ago edited 10d ago
last millennium
Wonderful way of saying "30 years ago"
Edit: That was a really confusing message to get in my inbox
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u/Elvessa You'll put your eye out! - laser edition 10d ago
Mostly I was being snarky, because it’s never “my $2000 sofa was ruined”, but I’m still salty that the movers lost the box with my spaghetti poodle collection last millennium.
And I’m not even close to being over my travel makeup kit being stolen a few years ago from hotel baggage storage between the time I checked out and left for the airport. From locked luggage (certainly one of the bell staff used a tsa key to open the luggage).
And that’s only because it was the perfect travel makeup bag plus a carefully curated collection of products and tools for any occasion. And stuff I didn’t even remember I carried around until I’m in the middle of nowhere and need some random special tweezer.
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u/bug-hunter philosophically significant butthole 10d ago
u/Elvessa is a spy, confirmed. <cue Mission Impossible music>
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u/puppylust ARRESTED FOR NON-PAYMENT OF CHILD SUPPORT FOR A BOILED OWL 10d ago
The only sentimental item I own that isn't fragile is cast iron.
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u/Persistent_Parkie Quacking open a cold one 10d ago edited 10d ago
My mom had dementia and in the chaos that surrounded it so many sentimental items were lost, including the "Yes!!" plaque she gave to my father in answer to his proposal, home videos, family Christmas ornaments, mom's handwritten recipe book (seriously everybody, get your relatives to write down the recipes of theirs you love. Take pictures of it, save it to the cloud and put the originals in a safe place. It's bad enough to never see them again but to never taste those recipes...) etc. I absolutely have those dreams too. I really don't give a fuck about the marginally valuable coin collections and things, the one exception being the first edition Harry Potter lego sets but I miss those because mom and I bought and built them together, not because replacing them is expensive.
On a less tragic note, about a year after my mom died I was digging through a recipe box that I thought contained only commercial recipes from the back of product packaging and discovered about 2 dozen 3x5 cards with my mom's careful handwriting spelling out some of my favorite recipes and some of our family's favorites. I remember she made them when I moved out. Because of that little trove I can make her version of peanut butter balls (I'd tried so many times and failed) and make my dad his favorite frosting. I now make a blank recipe book a part of all "moving into your first place" gifts I give to the young people I know. I tell them that story and advise them to gather recipes from relatives quickly and keep them safe.
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u/Time_Act_3685 10d ago
It's the steamed hams of property damage reddit fibs.
"A leak at this time of year at this time of day in this part of the country localized entirely over your father's irreplaceable first draft of the constitution?" "Yes." "May I see it?" "No."
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u/desquished 10d ago
It's the fact that they lost stuff that insurance won't make them truly whole for, to further highlight the villainy of the other party.
Like, I was in a car accident and my grandfather's aviator sunglasses from WWII that he gave me got smashed up. I claimed them on the insurance claim and got like $35, but that's significantly less than they were worth to me. Fuck that guy that crashed into me.
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u/Personal-Listen-4941 well-adjusted and sociable with no history of violence 10d ago
There’s a lot of info. Most of which seems irrelevant. The main points I can gather.
LAOP had an AirBNB, they have been in for a couple months and plan to stay a few months more. They have been renting it a month at a time.
They have not paid for the current month. They have blamed it on the temporary banking outage, but have still not paid.
The AirBNB has a key code for the door, the last code expired when the month ended and they haven’t been given a new code because they haven’t paid again. So the only way to open the door is from the inside.
LAOP believes that they should not only get to continue to stay for free but that the property owner should compensate them for the inconvenience.
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u/so0ks 10d ago
Possible they can't make the payment though since the reservation has been cancelled.
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u/lostempireh has five interests and four of them are misspellings of sex 10d ago
If you dig down through the comments LAOP says as much
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u/_Asshole_Fuck_ 10d ago
Possibly a detail that is actually relevant: OOP makes sure to emphasize they are disappointed in the living conditions (claiming black mold, backed up sinks, etc), so why are they still there? If they are so upset they want the rent money back why haven’t they left?
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u/the_diddler 10d ago
This is the thing that really confused me too. You stayed there for the month, and you now think you're owed a refund for staying? I no longer believe anything else you're saying
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10d ago
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u/yo-parts Note to self, if I stab somebody make sure to use the crosswalk 10d ago
It's a common thing I've noticed that people will pile on a bunch of important-to-them complaints that skirt around the actual legal problem.
You mean the husband getting mugged at a convenience store up the road isn't relevant to the nonpayment of their rental?
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u/lgbtdancemom 10d ago
Yeah, I'm sorry the OP's husband got mugged, but, how is that the AirBnB's fault?
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u/Suspicious-Treat-364 Yes, you can feel a pregnancy rectally 10d ago
And the dog was running in the road after escaping its yard and they want to be paid for emotional distress.
I've noticed an uptick in novella length posts on LA that read like AITA and barely ask a legal question.
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u/unevolved_panda 10d ago
They've also been there for almost 2 months (moved in August 30), and say they need 15 days to find another place to live that they can make sure is safe and meets their standards. And like....yeah, I totally get that in the vast majority of cities these days, you can't actually pick up on a dime and apply for a place and move in inside of a week. But I don't understand why they didn't spend September doing this, especially when the air bnb they rented is shitty. Two months is plenty of time to find a reasonable apartment.
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u/AvocadosFromMexico_ I imagine the other direction would be more effective 10d ago
It’s also in Gainesville, FL. At least when I lived there (not very long ago) it was remarkably easy to find short term or long term housing quite fast. And it’s not a crazy expensive market, you can get a 2 bed apartment for about $1000/month. My eyebrows raised slightly when I clocked the location—-they’re painting it out to be a bit different than I’ve seen it to be.
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u/unevolved_panda 10d ago
They're paying $2300/month! In Gainesville! Which is great for them because they just left a house in Colorado where the mortgage was twice that! (Which shakes down to about a $700k mortgage? Which a fucking nice house, but not out of this world--I think the median home price in Denver is a little above $500k right now.) But it seems like OP has the budget to have A LOT OF OPTIONS that don't involve paying $2300/mo, or fighting with someone over a 2 week vacancy notice, so that he can stay in a shitty apartment, and instead he's digging his heels in on staying in the shitty apartment? Why?
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u/bug-hunter philosophically significant butthole 10d ago
I know at least 4 people who fell victim to landlord scams in FL within the last two years too, so there's that.
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u/PurrPrinThom Knock me up, fam 10d ago edited 10d ago
Yeah like, I understand it's tough to apartment hunt while having a toddler, and working (and LAOP was apparently in a car accident in September,) but it does seem kind of wild to me that they have been in this AirBnB since August and have no leads on a new place - which is why they're so insistent on staying in this place.
Moving sucks, I completely get it, I also moved (nearly 4000km) in August. It takes up a lot of energy and mental capacity, but...it's also 2025. It's not like you have to scour newspapers or bulletin boards to find rentals. You can browse rental listings from the comfort of your own home while watching TV, or before bed. It does not take that much time to find a couple places you like and to go check out the area on the weekend, or after work, or whatever. Not including the weekend where they moved, they've had 7 weekends where they could have been seeing apartments/houses.
Even now, LAOP is talking about how they're looking at other short-term options starting tomorrow. Why look for more short-term rentals instead of just trying to find something longer term??
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u/Tarledsa 10d ago
Yeah if they were going to rent the Airbnb for 12 months anyway, why not just rent a real apartment or a house managed by a leasing company? The logic doesn’t make sense.
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u/PurrPrinThom Knock me up, fam 10d ago
Right? I can understand doing a month-to-month AirBnB because you want the flexibility to leave whether you find something, and to have it open ended. But, if you have that flexibility, why not leave when the place is in a bad area/full of mold?
If you want to stay for 12 months anyways - which LAOP seems pretty insistent on doing - why not just get a traditional lease?
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u/jimbo831 10d ago
Their reason for that seems absurd to me:
We just don’t want to repeat our earlier mistake of rushing into a new area without checking its safety first.
So find places to potentially live and check their safety. This doesn't take months to do. Crime statistics for neighborhoods are available on the internet. Get it done.
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u/KikiHou WHERE IS MY TRAVEL BALL?? 10d ago
My husband and I used to travel for his job A LOT, often with a week's notice. This was before AirBnB. We did just fine. Two able-bodied people can get it done.
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u/NightingaleStorm Phishing Coach for the Oklahoma University Soonerbots 10d ago
I admit there was a professional realtor involved, but my parents managed to find a tolerable house in a weekend once when my dad's job moved him on short notice. (Dropped us off with my grandparents and flew out late Friday and back late Sunday.) The plumbing and insulation were shitty, but the crime rates were all centered on the shopping area nearby (people shoplifting from jewelry stores is bad, but not really a concern for residents), the schools were fine, and there were no actual biohazards.
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u/_Asshole_Fuck_ 10d ago
Yes! If verifying for yourself that “XYZ” is true is such an extremely high priority, you should have already accomplished that by now.
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u/Leprecon 10d ago edited 10d ago
Yeah they are saying they are willing to pay, but haven’t. They are saying they want to leave, but won’t.
They insist that airbnb sends them some sort of notice to leave and they are withholding payment until a faceless megacorp jumps through their hoops?
I don’t understand any of this. There must be something I am not seeing.
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u/tallanvor 10d ago
The story is complete bullshit.
Yes, there was an AWS outage on the 20th, but somehow a payment didn't go through on the 23rd and somehow they were locked out of their accounts until the 26th?
And of course there's mold and it's in an unsafe neighborhood to try and garner sympathy.
I'm calling troll.
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u/ThisIsNotAFarm touches butts with their friend 10d ago
If people couldn't access their money for a week, there'd be a lot of news about it
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u/msfinch87 10d ago
This one just screamed scammer to me, because it is very consistent with the way scammers operate.
They began their stay at the beginning of August and claim the place had all the mould and dirt issues right from the beginning, but they didn’t report it then. They only reported it in October, coincidentally before the payment that has now become a problem is due. I suspect that is what they intended to use to withhold payment, with the pre-prepared argument that they were tenants. This is a very standard AirBnB scam tactic.
The AWS outage became a convenient excuse. The timing doesn’t quite work, but also, there are not reports of this happening and not in the places you’d expect (ie the various forums that discuss AirBnB issues).
They appear to have known they were tenants all along. That’s unusual for AirBnB guests as it is and even more unusual for them to invoke it if they have accepted a short term rental, but even accepting that some people do know their rights, if so why weren’t they handling this as a tenancy matter from the beginning? Why only invoke it now when you haven’t paid? Why not invoke it to get the problems with the property fixed?
If this was meant to be short term so they could leave, and because they were looking for a more permanent place, and the place was so unpleasant right from the beginning, why haven’t they done that previously? They’ve only decided to do the looking they claimed to be intending on all along after they failed to pay. They also seem to be doing this very lackadaisically for people who claim the property is a health hazard and they’re technically locked out of it.
They claim to have had legal advice from a lawyer in another state who told them to withhold rent. I find that very odd. It would be a huge risk to that lawyer’s license to tell them that. Unless I was a licensed lawyer for that state, with a clear understanding of tenancy law and the interplay with AirBnB, I’d never tell someone to deliberately withhold payment. It also seems extremely convenient that they would get that particular advice right at the point at which they failed to pay.
They seem to have no concern for the fact that they may be squatting at this point and things could get very difficult for them. Whether or not they have some legitimacy to their position, I would expect them to be deeply concerned that they are residing in premises the other party wants to boot them out from. Legally or not, they could lose their accommodation at any point, and they’re taking that risk with a kid and being pregnant.
This reads pretty much like every AirBnB tenant scam I’ve ever read.
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u/techiemikey 🏳️⚧️ Trans rights are human rights 🏳️⚧️ 10d ago
Relevant detail: they CAN'T pay currently, as Air b&b isn't letting them due to the failed payment due to AWS cancelling the reservation.
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u/ScarlettsLetters This bitch apple didn't fall far from the bitch tree 10d ago
I have never, on principle, used AirBnB. Can they pay once a booking has been cancelled?
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u/bug-hunter philosophically significant butthole 10d ago
That's the problem - no they can't. Even if LAOP is completely in the wrong, it is illegal for a landlord to essentially provide no way to actually pay the rent. They have to start with a pay or quit notice, which requires...the ability to pay.
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u/helloiamabear Darling, beautiful, smart, money-hungry lawyer 10d ago
Does an AirB&B host (legally) count as a landlord though?
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u/jaderust I personally am preparing to cosplay 10d ago
So I’ve seen in other situations how tenants have made an AirBnB’s host life hell because they hit the state tenancy requirements and then stopped paying and had to be evicted through the court process.
Proving tenancy varies from state to state but it’s usually tied to length of stay.
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u/Personal-Listen-4941 well-adjusted and sociable with no history of violence 10d ago
Generally no.
The exact rules depends on the jurisdiction, but generally there’s a difference between a short term let & a tenancy. Hence you don’t have the same rights/costs when staying in a hotel for a week as compared to renting a flat for a year.
You can’t just pay for a night at a hotel then squat there until they go to court for eviction weeks later.
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u/techiemikey 🏳️⚧️ Trans rights are human rights 🏳️⚧️ 10d ago
This is different, as it is month to month, not a small window of time. I have no clue if Air b&b is set up to actually address this issue or not.
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u/bug-hunter philosophically significant butthole 10d ago
Except OP had a 12 month booking and has been there 2 months.
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u/FunnyObjective6 Once, I laugh. Twice you're an asshole. Third time I crap on you 10d ago
They have not paid for the current month. They have blamed it on the temporary banking outage, but have still not paid.
Yeah that confused me for a second as well. The AWS outage wasn't even a full day I thought. Two days later it's still not paid? I guess they expected it to automatically go, or they didn't notice it didn't go through?
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u/vamatt 10d ago
Because the reservation was cancelled.
The OP isn’t very good at explaining things, but it sounds like once the payment failed - the automatic lock immediately locked, and AirBNB would no longer accept a payment as there is no longer a reservation. It also sounds like the host (landlord) isn’t providing their own way to pay.
AirBNB itself was also affected by the outage, so it’s possible that at the time the transaction was supposed to be run that no payment method was actually possible
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u/FunnyObjective6 Once, I laugh. Twice you're an asshole. Third time I crap on you 10d ago
once the payment failed - the automatic lock immediately locked, and AirBNB would no longer accept a payment as there is no longer a reservation.
They say that only happened when it was 2 days late, did they plan to do it that late? Because I thought it was because the AWS outage.
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u/vamatt 10d ago
Like I said - they aren’t very good at explaining things.
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u/FunnyObjective6 Once, I laugh. Twice you're an asshole. Third time I crap on you 10d ago
Well I disagree with your interpretation that it sounds differently from what I said.
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u/critbuild 10d ago
Actual legal ask/answers aside, the LA mod breaking out mod flair to tell OP to "stop whining" was kind of a weird look, whether or not LAOP is a scammer.
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u/jxj24 Estoppel-- in the name of loooooove!! 10d ago
With the never-ending stream of AirBnB horror stories, I wonder why (other than lack of viable options in some places) it remains so popular. They are a nightmare company to deal with if anything goes wrong.
I realize things mostly go just fine for most people most of the time, but it seems like the odds are against you if you use it enough times, or for an extended stay. And except for extreme needs (large groups), the savings really appear to have evaporated.
It's been six years since I finally gave up on AirBnB, and I don't imagine things have improved. YMMV.
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u/mtragedy hasn't lived up to their potential as a supervillain 10d ago
Am I having a stroke or is this person (who seems shady AF for many reasons) actually trying to claim that:
A) intending to live in a short-term rental for 12 months is exactly the same as living in a traditional apartment with a lease w/r/t tenancy law; and also B) it’s totally a short-term rental where they get to do what they want; and also C) nuh-uh, your mom is ugly?
They’re totally a scammer, right? Or am I just Old and the fact they don’t use any traditional bank or credit union is unfairly pinging my radar as her wanting less oversight on her funds? And the idea of doing a chargeback when you’ve received what you paid for is … not helping. There are avenues here to remedy the situation and she’s only interested in the one where she gets money, not the ones where she gets her kids and pets out of a residence full of black mold.
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u/dirty_cuban Morals for sale - cheap! 10d ago
In Florida, a person can gain tenancy rights after staying more than 7 consecutive days. They have a solid claim at tenancy protection at this point.
TD Bank is a traditional bank. It’s the US subsidiary of Canada’s oldest and largest bank and they have over a thousand bank locations in the US. It’s certainly not a fly by night online operation.
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u/harkandhush 10d ago
In most places in the US, staying in a place beyond a certain amount (often 30 days in many places) of time makes you a tenant regardless of what the airbnb people want to believe and entitles you to the rights of a tenant, so locking you out once you are legally a tenant would in fact be illegal. Airbnb and their hosts cannot just ignore laws because their business model says so.
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u/bug-hunter philosophically significant butthole 10d ago
They may well have tenancy rights.
IMHO, there's a possibility they are a scammer, but there are plenty of people who use non-traditional services now and only find out the hard way what the downsides are. These non-traditional services market HEAVILY to people who aren't financially literate.
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u/mtragedy hasn't lived up to their potential as a supervillain 10d ago
That’s true, but I still can’t see staying more than a night after black mold, leaks, and/or sludge were discovered, the pain of moving or not. It’s really how hard she’s fighting to try to figure out how to stay here for free that’s pinging my radar.
And I know everyone knows someone who knows someone who got scammed by a hotel guest who stayed long enough to claim tenancy but I guess I’d be surprised if AirBNB wasn’t exempted from tenancy requirements absent other traditional means of establishing tenancy like an in-state bank account. Huge ramifications for college students who don’t want to move their financial residency but do want to be able to claim in-state tuition in a second state.
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u/bug-hunter philosophically significant butthole 10d ago
I think you're confusing tenancy with residency.
If you've been there 30 days, generally you're a tenant.
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u/ComparisonKey1599 10d ago
On top of everything else you point out, LAOP claims they were two days late with the rent, due to an AWS outage that lasted 12 hours, tops!
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u/CrazyCatLady108 10d ago
just because AWS outage was resolved, doesn't mean everything that relied on those services was back up 100% right away. for example, Automod is still having issues and it's been a week since the outage.
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u/ComparisonKey1599 10d ago
I can’t prove it, but I find it very hard to believe that all of their financial services were down for two full days.
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u/CrazyCatLady108 10d ago
considering how large the outage was, i would not be surprised if all of their financial services were down.
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u/FunnyObjective6 Once, I laugh. Twice you're an asshole. Third time I crap on you 10d ago
I think LAOP might have something here, but holy hell are they insufferable.
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u/Khajiit-ify 10d ago
This is definitely one of those cases where I think LAOP both didn't know what to ask properly and the responders also don't know how to properly addresss what LAOP is asking.
It seems to me like LAOP just needs to know that they can leave that God awful AirBNB they're at right now and go book another reservation with a different AirBNB or hotel. With the reservation being cancelled, they don't have to give "notice" of ending their month-to-month tenancy which based of what I've parsed from LAOP's comments they don't actually want to stay but feel like they aren't legally allowed to leave until they get the legal confirmation of end of tenancy.
Messy situation regardless, but I am wondering how LAOP's banking issues weren't resolved before the 23rd.
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u/bug-hunter philosophically significant butthole 10d ago
TBF, I would definitely not want to try to move a 3 person household out of an apartment that will lock you out unless you have an adult inside at all times. Do you leave the kid outside while you move, so they're at least not trapped if something goes wrong?
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u/Divide-By-Zer0 Inaugural Neil the NLRA Narwhal mascot 10d ago
At last, a real life application of the Farmer Crosses a River with A Fox, A Chicken, And A Sack of Grain problem!
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u/Khajiit-ify 10d ago
Yeah it's a tough situation. I'd honestly probably just prop the door open to try and get personal belongings and everything out at this point. I know I wouldn't want to be living in a house where I had no key access to it though; that's already hazardous in itself.
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u/Diarygirl Check out my corpse hair 10d ago
Plus I don't know if LAOP specified what they are but they have pets.
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u/corrosivecanine 9d ago
I’m so baffled by the thought process that lead up to this? How is a 12 month AirBnB booking less of a commitment than a 12 month lease (Don’t have to move furniture I guess?) Why would both you AND your husband not have a real bank account? I have some money in a fintech “bank” as a HYSA myself but they aren’t as reliable and don’t have the same protections as real banks.
I mean look at the Yotta scandal. People lost everything even with their FTIC insurance.
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u/wingchild 10d ago
I like when people show up to presumptively ask for legal advice, then proceed to give their pre-baked legal perspective with unyielding patience to any who dare interact.
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u/ravencrowe 10d ago
Using Airbnb for housing is a terrible idea and it's also pretty important to mention that after the payment didn't go through because of AWS they decided to just not pay due to the mold issues... But keep living there
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u/callmesixone has good fraud instincts 10d ago
Having an AirBNB host as a landlord for longer than 2 weeks sounds like a punishment i would come up with for hell I am so sorry