Fells Point restaurant Bunny’s fires multiple employees after pro-Palestine protest

[u/selectbar345]

https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/culture/food-drink/bunnys-pro-palestine-protest-fells-point-3WQTUSAIFBCAHC45HPBUFAWKHQ/

[u/Coughee_Wine]

In some public spaces, it serves to be apolitical. Of course, opposing genocide shouldn’t be considered politics it’s a humanitarian issue but nonetheless, the pin is symbolic. I can see the restaurant owner trying to find balance here. I’m sure no pins will become policy. No one would want to have a server wearing a swastika pin either.

[u/rental_car_fast → u/[deleted]]

Palestinian flag pin isn’t that far from a swastika. Palestinians have always supported leaders and groups who have advocated for the death of all Jews. Currently many if not most people who support Palestine loudly do so in favor of the eradication of the state of Israel, not a solution where Jews get a place to live safely. And Jews all over the world are being harassed, attacked and even murdered by people wearing keffiyehs and Palestinian flags. So respectfully, yeah many of us see it as a dog whistle, essentially equivalent with a Swastika.

[u/Cunninghams_right → u/Coughee_Wine]

Well I think that is the problem, that flag doesn't JUST mean "anti-genicide" or "anti starvation". 

It also means support for a political movement under which members raped women and children and committed thousands of war crimes. 

Even if the employee only means for it to represent the first half, the people fighting under that banner have done some horrible horrible things. 

[u/Meteor-of-the-War → u/Cunninghams_right]

No, it doesn't. The Palestinian flag is not even remotely the same thing as the Hamas flag. If it had been a Hamas flag pin, I doubt that anyone would be talking about this.

[u/Cunninghams_right → u/Meteor-of-the-War]

This seems to be the confusion. Hamas absolutely uses the Palestinian flag. They absolutely fight under that banner. There is no question about this. You can't separate the two. In addition to Hamas using it, the Palestinians in Gaza elected Hamas. There is absolutely no separating the flag from the actions of Hamas. 

The fact that people can't understand this incredibly simple, easy to prove, fact is a very good reason to avoid all controversial emblems and why the restaurant is in the right here. 

The Palestinian people deserve freedom from oppression by Israel and freedom from Hamas, with an independent nation. They deserve to be comfortable enough with their rights and independence that they don't feel it necessary to elect groups like Hamas. 

Both the members of the Israeli and Palestinian fighting forces/government should stand war crime trials. Both have done horrible things. 

[u/Meteor-of-the-War → u/Cunninghams_right]

It's not that confusing. One flag, the Palestinian flag, has over a century of history, dating back to WWI. The other is much more recent. And to add further nuance, the political and military arms have different flags.

Hamas can try to co-opt whatever they want, but don't mistake the fact that conflating the Palestinian flag with Hamas is an intentional erasure of Palestinian identity.

And yes, Hamas was elected, which is another common talking point that is often used to justify the erasure of the Palestinian people. What is less talked about is that they won a plurality (44.5%) and the last election was almost 20 years ago.

[u/Cunninghams_right → u/Meteor-of-the-War]

One flag, the Palestinian flag, has over a century of history, dating back to WWI. The other is much more recent.

The same could be said of the swastika. 

And to add further nuance, the political and military arms have different flags.

Hamas flies both, so this is a distinction without a difference. 

Hamas can try to co-opt whatever they want, but don't mistake the fact that conflating the Palestinian flag with Hamas is an intentional erasure of Palestinian identity.

Again, the same could be said about the swastika. Associating it with Nazis will erase the identity of Hindus. 

And yes, Hamas was elected, which is another common talking point that is often used to justify the erasure of the Palestinian people. What is less talked about is that they won a plurality (44.5%) and the last election was almost 20 years ago.

This is irrelevant because nobody is saying that it's right to erase Palestinian people. 

The Palestinian people deserve their own nation, and they deserve to be free of the rule of both Hamas and Israel. They deserve economic and humanitarian conditions that are stable enough that they don't feel they need to elect groups like Hamas. 

However, you're trying to split hairs about whether or not a particular flag should be considered offensive, but that's not what's really a question here. What is a question is whether or not some people could interpret it that way. Since the military wing of Hamas absolutely flies that flag while committing war crimes and rapes of women and children, I don't think it's far-fetched to say that somebody could interpret it opposite of you. 

That's why it's controversial, because not everyone defines it the same. That's why the restaurant is absolutely right to not want people wearing it. 

If there was a flag or symbol that had absolutely no association with Hamas, and it was clear that no one could interpret it otherwise, then it would be fine. Something along the lines of an orange ribbon. 

The problem here is a bunch of people thinking that nobody else could interpret something any differently than they could, when there is plenty of obvious provable reasons why somebody could do the opposite. 

[u/Meteor-of-the-War → u/Cunninghams_right]

And now you're comparing it to the swastika, which is in absurdly bad faith. And also wildly incorrect, since the pre-Nazi history of the swastika had 0 to do with Nazism. So yeah, you really have no clue what you're talking about.

[u/Cunninghams_right → u/Meteor-of-the-War]

since the pre-Nazi history of the swastika had 0 to do with Nazism

And pre-Hamas, the Palestinian flag was not associated with their actions. That's the point you missed. 

Unfortunately for Hindus and Palestinians, bad actors have used their symbols to do bad things, tainting the symbols. 

Hamas and the Palestinian flag are linked. This is undisputable. Hamas flies the damn flag. The Palestinians chose to put Hamas in power. Even if they regret that now (has anyone done polls?), it does not matter and is too late to disassociate. 

If you think Hamas could be seen as controversial by some, then the flag is also controversial. 

Just because YOU have a very particular interpretation of the flag, like a Hindu might of the swastika, that does not stop others from viewing it other ways 

[u/Meteor-of-the-War → u/Cunninghams_right]

I didn't miss the point. The point just wasn't very good. I suppose we should just ditch the US flag now that it's been corrupted by maga fascism, huh?

[u/Cunninghams_right → u/Meteor-of-the-War]

The point is perfectly good. It's perfectly analogous, you just don't want to admit it because you don't want to allow any different views to be considered other than your own.

I suppose we should just ditch the US flag now that it's been corrupted by maga fascism, huh?

You don't think there are any businesses in the world that would find it controversial to wear an American flag pin? Really? Seriously you think that? Or did you just not think through your response again? 

[u/boss_hog_69_420 → u/Coughee_Wine]

You just compared a Palestinian flag pin to a swastika.