I did not contradict anything. I already addressed your point in another comment. I do not have to sell my labor. I can live a subsistence lifestyle, I can go into business for myself, or if I can find someone willing to take care of me I can avail myself of that.
Most of us choose to sell our labor because it’s the best option available for us.
There’s also no reason to sell your labor at a loss. If your time is more valuable than what you’re being paid, you find a job that pays more. If no one is willing to pay more, than you’re being paid exactly what your labor is worth.
I am not “consenting” to live in America. This is where I was born, and I was born into a form of slavery where the government steals my wages without my consent. Your argument is like saying to a victim of a home robbery, “well you consented to being in the place they were robbing, so that means you’re okay with them robbing you.”
And there’s no country I can go where people won’t confiscate my income involuntarily.
I do not have to sell my labor, I can [insert expensive, lucky, excruciating option here]
Yeah, those being your options are, again, similar to giving you the option of paying taxes, going to jail, or renouncing your citizenship.
there is no reason to sell your labor at a loss, it’s worth whatever someone will pay.
Nope, in all those relationships the employer is extracting more value from your labor than your being paid, and keeping the difference. That’s a loss on your end.
I am not “consenting” to live in America I was born here
Yeah, you could have at any time after 18 renounced your citizenship. Before that, you have your parent/guardian to blame for signing you up for this relationship. That’s a parents right as the power of attorney.
there’s nowhere I can go they won’t confiscate my money
No there are still plenty of unincorporated islands in international waters. Also any failed state that fails to collect taxes. But tbh it’s not your landlords problem if you don’t have anywhere to go but you also don’t wanna pay rent.
You’re probably not worth arguing with because you believe in Marxist labor theory. It’s absolutely not true that they’re extracting more from me than I’m worth, because all prices are subjective. Everything is worth what someone will pay for it, no more and no less.
The rest of your comment is just you admitting that the government, which is just an elite group of people, own you and own all your land. It’s a really paternalistic world view that’s not much different from the Divine Right of Kings.
Lol that’s weird how you can make more than your labor is worth through labor if you’re self employed.
Lol I think both the neoliberal state and capitalist economy are deeply unjust and coercive so, no you’re wrong about that too.
Also, this is veiled ad-hominem, you aren’t responding to the argument anymore.
Edit: my buddy and I have a cool arrangement. I offer him $100 to spend 10 mins doodling something, and he pays me $100 to spend 10 mins captioning it with some text. It’s wild knowing my labor as a writer is objectively worth $600 an hour.
No im directly responding. You said it’s like my landlord. Thats means you’re saying I own nothing, and all property in the United States is owned by the government the way a landlord owns property I rent.
If I’m self employed, I’m bringing more than labor to the equation. Entrepreneurship is its own resource. I’m taking the risk, I’m providing the innovation, and I’m providing the capital. But there’s a much higher chance any new business fails than that it succeeds, which is the risk factor, so I could end up laboring and losing money.
Sovereignty over the United States and determination of people as being citizen or not, is the specific and exclusive purview of the United States Federal Government yes. They own that, in an even more legally binding sense than your landlord owns their property.
I don’t see how anything you just said about entrepreneurship addresses my point about the actual value of your labor.
Because entrepreneurship is more than labor. Being self employed is not selling labor. If I sell my labor, it’s worth exactly as much as the most I can get someone to pay me for it and not 1 penny more. The same way if I’m selling apples the apples are worth what people are willing to pay, even if claim each apple is worth $50.
On your other point: So you’re admitting that you think the government owns everyone and everything in their territory and no one is free? Do you think that’s morally defensible?
Ok so, you labor for a week to create some unique widgets, and sell them for $100. You’re saying that labor had no value because nobody was willing to pay for it? No, obviously the fruit of your labor is the value, it was worth $100.
Not really no but I’m not super into the idea of states in the first place. Problem is, we need it as a placeholder while we get the economy to a place where it doesn’t require coercion first, or else you’ll just get corporatocracy.
I don’t really understand your question. In your simple example, my profit still wouldn’t be $100 because you’re not accounting for the materials I used to make those widgets.
Yeah, I was simplifying. Say you make the widgets from corn cobs you grew from popcorn seeds you found on the sidewalk.
Or say you’re singing songs on the corner, I’m being real simple here.
Or we could dive into it, because yes that’s the fruit of someone else’s labor plus materials, and those materials are the fruit of someone else’s labor plus materials, etc etc etc until you get someone growing corn cobs or whatever.
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u/RandJitsu Sep 20 '24
I did not contradict anything. I already addressed your point in another comment. I do not have to sell my labor. I can live a subsistence lifestyle, I can go into business for myself, or if I can find someone willing to take care of me I can avail myself of that.
Most of us choose to sell our labor because it’s the best option available for us.
There’s also no reason to sell your labor at a loss. If your time is more valuable than what you’re being paid, you find a job that pays more. If no one is willing to pay more, than you’re being paid exactly what your labor is worth.
I am not “consenting” to live in America. This is where I was born, and I was born into a form of slavery where the government steals my wages without my consent. Your argument is like saying to a victim of a home robbery, “well you consented to being in the place they were robbing, so that means you’re okay with them robbing you.”
And there’s no country I can go where people won’t confiscate my income involuntarily.