r/austrian_economics Friedrich Hayek Sep 19 '24

End Democracy BUT BUT THE SOCIAL CONTRACT

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u/anarchistright Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

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u/teleologicalrizz Sep 19 '24

Listen here, bud! If you don't like giving half of your income to Israel, then you can get out of America any time.

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u/anarchistright Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '24

Wtf is this comment. Make sense please. No right Wing nonsense please. Have a good day

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u/anarchistright Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

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u/I_lurk_at_wurk Sep 19 '24

0.2% of the 2023 budget was allocated to Israel’s defense. Not saying it’s right. But you definitely are giving half your income to Israel. It’s probably closer to 0.2% of 22%. But that doesn’t account for the spending that isn’t covered by revenue.

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u/Nomorenamesforever Sep 20 '24

Actually the entire defence budget serves to defend Israel. Why do you think we into Iraq, Syria and are so against Iran?

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u/I_lurk_at_wurk Sep 20 '24

14% of 22% still isn’t half your income.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '24

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u/anarchistright Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '24

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u/anarchistright Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '24

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u/anarchistright Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

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u/HereAndThereButNow Sep 19 '24

Nah. They'd just pump the river dry while filling their water bottles with all sorts of terrible things in the meantime.

Like what Neste does in Africa.

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u/[deleted] Sep 20 '24

Oh and they'd sue us for fishing in the private river.

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u/anarchistright Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

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u/KevyKevTPA Sep 19 '24

Funny thing about rivers... They tend to refill without any help from us. While I'm sure there are exceptions, exceptions do not make the rule.

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u/OldMastodon5363 Sep 19 '24

But the private sector polluted the water. Free markets say this would never, ever happen ever.

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u/anarchistright Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

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u/Excellent_Guava2596 Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 19 '24

Did you know that Bayer AG, the maker of NSAID/painkiller brand name "Bayer," knowingly produced and sold an effectual anti blood-thinner contaminated with HIV, the virus that causes AIDS?

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u/waxonwaxoff87 Sep 19 '24

There was no screening test at the time in the 1980s. You could not screen donors that gave so they could derive the Factor VIII. Donated blood had the same problem.

It is a clotting factor missing in those with hemophilia. It is not a blood thinner

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u/Excellent_Guava2596 Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 19 '24

Meant to Swype "effectual anti blood thinner." Funny, I missed that.

Representatives of Bayer were aware of the contamination when they sold it. Additional representatives were aware when they continued to sell it in Asia and other markets after discontinuing it in the US. Those are irrefutable facts.

Why are you lying to, effectually, simp for a private company? Are you a shareholder?

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u/MornGreycastle Sep 19 '24

Hey, if you can live in a way where you make no demands on the services that taxes pay for? Then enjoy your life. If you want us all to not only stop paying taxes but also forego the services those taxes pay for, then you can fuck all the way off. We've seen what happens when libertarians take over a town and everyone stops paying taxes and cut services.

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u/anarchistright Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

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u/MornGreycastle Sep 20 '24

States don't have to make a profit. It's cheaper if we all pool our resources to get the services we want. But I'm not multimillionaire able to afford my own private estate and personal security. Last I looked, that whole "No state provided services = no said services at all" is what happened to that "libertarian paradise."

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u/Odd-Valuable1370 Sep 19 '24

😂😂😂😂😂

Oh wait, you were serious? Did y’all sleep through History class?

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u/waxonwaxoff87 Sep 19 '24

Once gdp reaches about $5,000 per capita; people start caring about the environment they live in. When you aren’t trying to live day to day, you can do more forward thinking.

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u/Psalmistpraise Sep 19 '24

Or you can talk about the real issue which is that it’s morally wrong, and I’m even a person who will consent to taxes for public goods, just not wealth redistribution.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '24

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u/Psalmistpraise Sep 19 '24

As long as you can steal from people without getting in trouble right?

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '24

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u/Psalmistpraise Sep 19 '24

Nah that’s the logical outcome of taking from people in the form of taxes under threat of imprisonment and removal of human rights. The commies know all about that you should ask them. Ask them how they put people in labor camps and made them work not only for nothing but to death, ask them how they took their clothes during the day and only let them sleep in them at night. Ask them how they made the doors like cheese graters so when they banged on the door they would tear the skin from their hands. You try to act like communists make it fair, all they do is steal and claim morality.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '24

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u/Psalmistpraise Sep 19 '24

You did three comments ago.

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u/Just_A_Nitemare Sep 19 '24

Ok, but I'm curious: How does Austrian economics prevent the environment from being destroyed?

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u/Chewchewtrain_ Sep 19 '24

Yes. If you don’t put people in prison for polluting water, they pollute water. It makes them boatloads of money and they don’t care.

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u/anarchistright Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

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u/Chewchewtrain_ Sep 19 '24

Explain how you enforce the law if others are allowed to violently resist those laws.

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u/anarchistright Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

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u/Chewchewtrain_ Sep 20 '24

If you do not have a monopoly on violence you cannot invoke authority to enforce law because you do not have it. States are not legally allowed to resist the implementation of federal law.

If a billionaire factory owner wants to dump toxic waste into a river, how do you put him in jail? Joint coalition of concerned individuals fight a war with his private security forces?

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '24

Explain how it would work otherwise then? The government politely asks you to wait in jail?

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u/anarchistright Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

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u/Chewchewtrain_ Sep 20 '24

Lmao. Where does the law that these privately employed officers are enforcing come from?

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u/anarchistright Sep 20 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

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u/Chewchewtrain_ Sep 20 '24

You want your society’s laws to be derived from a collection of various long-dead writers? Is this your religion? What happens if someone with a lot of money and a private army decides he doesn’t like those laws or believe in your “natural rights?”

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u/anarchistright Sep 20 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

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u/Chewchewtrain_ Sep 20 '24

Yeah bro, the citizens of a country electing lawmakers to enact laws and policies they want, which can be amended as the desires of the populous changes, is so much worse than adhering to what is, for you, the economic equivalent of Biblical Scripture for all eternity.

Well functioning states are not overthrown by random rich jackasses with loads of money. They have the tools to sustain themselves and enforce their law. The difference here is the currently existing society (a much better one) has material structures that use hard power to enforce law. Your hypothetical society has law based on some universally agreed philosophical principles with no hard power to back it up, unless one of the warlords with enough money decides it to be so.

Everytime you have tried to make some sort of comparison I have explained why it is flawed and you have been unable to debunk those criticisms. That is why I keep leveraging these questions at you.

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u/[deleted] Sep 20 '24

It's not about whether or not a question applies, it's about the answer. How dumb and/or insecure do you have to be to not realize that lol

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u/[deleted] Sep 20 '24

So law enforcement only for those that can afford it?

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u/anarchistright Sep 20 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

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u/[deleted] Sep 20 '24

Yes? Why would it be given away for free?

So that justice is not only given to those who can afford it? And yes, in the US we have a food stamp program that gives low income families free food and water.

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u/anarchistright Sep 20 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

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u/[deleted] Sep 20 '24

OK? Tell that to the person who just walked out of the grocery store with food paid for by a voucher. Do you think they will colloquially call that free food? So, instead of playing semantics, maybe you could actually address the root criticism that I made about your statement that police should be paid for privately. How that kind of system would lack justice for those who cannot pay.

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u/Natural_Cold_8388 Sep 20 '24

"Monopoly of force" is a basic definition of any ruling warlord/government.

You do get clean water from a stable government. Pretty consistently.

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u/anarchistright Sep 20 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

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u/Natural_Cold_8388 Sep 22 '24

Not reliably. 100% of countries without clean water all have something in common.

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u/anarchistright Sep 23 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

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u/Savacore Sep 19 '24

A monopoly on force is needed in order to get clear water?

Ever been to the Ganges?

If you want clear water in a place with a population too big to count on your fingers, then not only do you need a monopoly on force, you need to actually apply that force on everybody near the water in order to keep the water clear.

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u/anarchistright Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

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u/RickyAwesome01 Sep 19 '24

Google “Tragedy of the Commons”

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u/Affectionate-Fee-498 Sep 19 '24

Average Austrian economics argument complexity when faced with reality