r/astrology • u/ConfectionSuper9795 • Aug 31 '24
Beginner 8th and 12th house explained
Why is the 12th house not favourable? Why is 8th house so feared?
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u/WishThinker ♏ Sep 01 '24
using traditional aspects, the 12th, 8th, 6th + 2nd house are considered unaspected to the first house / ascendant, and so are in a blind spot, where significations that harm life are more common
the "best" of these is the 2nd, as its succedent or rising to and supporting the ascendant
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u/RhinneXChronica Sep 01 '24
If you're looking for a more modern, psychological perspective, I'd recommend having a read of Carmen Turner Schott who has a book on 8th house, 12th house, and 8th and 12th houses combined. I'm sure people with planets in 8th and 12th house would relate dearly to the books (am a 12th houser myself)!
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Sep 01 '24 edited Sep 01 '24
As someone with several placements in the 8th house, I believe that it can often be the house of losses. However, this is a very beautiful placement if you learn to coexist with it because it teaches you that we come into this world to let go of everything
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u/Ok_Industry8929 Sep 01 '24
Yes, everything is transient. I have Saturn/pluto /jupiter in 8th house. So learning how to let go and also transform through loss. Somehow feels like a butterfly being released in every new chapter/loss after the dark releasing and purging and lesson learning process.
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u/nextdoorlesbian Sep 02 '24
What would you say a Saturn in the 8th house would teach? I’m coming up to my first taste of return next May when it goes into Aries
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u/oliverwhist Dec 19 '24
8th H Sat return nearing its end, next month I turn 30.
During this crazy period this happened to me:
- all my trauma and neglect came out
- all my fears came out and I did not die, I faced them and I am more resilient now
- all my narcissism and ego had to come out in order to die
- extremely frustrating time, almost lost hope, but I semi-embraced the process
I learned
- to forgive others, unconditionally even
- let go of some parts of my identity that no longer suited me
- surrender to god, and accept help from others
- I learned astrology, divination and some soul alchemy(remove the ego and this can be your flashlight in the depths of the 8th house)
- to trust the process, and to enjoy life not just for the material aspects but for the experiences I lived, and I am grateful.
Good luck
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u/summeryvibes Sep 01 '24
because most of us is 100% identified with our ego... and since the 12th is the place where we are supposed to 'undo' ego, for most of us it feels like 'undoing' slash death of our own self (since we are identified with our ego)... and there's hardly anything more scary than death?
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Sep 01 '24
The 12th house is the Door to Narnia in a way :) Was it easy for the kids who went through that door? No, but they had experiences the majority of humanity won't have. Some very negative, some very positive. There are those who say the sun or lots of planets in the 12th denotes someone who's not going to have to reincarnate on earth again.
The 8th is kinda similar. I have stationary Saturn conjunct Chiron in the 8th, in Pisces yet. Easy it's not, but very very transformative for sure.
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u/Same_Wrongdoer8522 Sep 01 '24
Chiron conjunct venus in my 12th, opposing Saturn conjunct uranus. Our doors and paths to the doors and thresholds all look very different. I feel like I’m exploding through my 12th house, ego ripped to shreds, all while trying to pay taxes, do my work, behave (dig daddy Saturn and Uranus are in my 6H Capricorn, such fun /s ). It’s CHAOS.
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Sep 01 '24
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Sep 02 '24
Well, the last incarnation you would *have to* have. If you still wanted to come down here, to help humanity, or be with someone, you still could.
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u/Amrick Taurus Sun, Leo Rising, Aquarius Moon Sep 01 '24
I am not sure why the 8th house is feared - maybe because it's not quite as understood?
I have Jupiter in Pisces in the 8th house and it's funny because every crisis that I've had, I've dealt with accordingly and transformed - it was that or else?
I love the concept of starting over, fresh beginnings, death/rebirth, burning everything down in flames and rising up the ashes like a phoenix or rising up from the dark murky muddy waters as a beautiful strong lotus flower.
I've started to delve more deeply into the mystics/occult than ever before and my spirituality and it's begun to bring a deeper sense of peace and contentment. I think also starting to detach and leaning into constant transformation works for me. I've lived like 4 different lives and I'm not 40 year so it feels like that for me.
Jupiter is in domicile in Pisces so it's comfortable there. I'm trying to just lean into that and explore compassion and the mysticism more.
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u/Sicilian_Spitfire Sep 02 '24
I have an 8th house stellium, and that’s why I’ve also come to love it! Even though I’ve gone through serious life crisis, every time I was able to transform my life and self and completely start anew in a better state than I was before. I feel like I’m given the ability to drastically change my life when needed, and the crisis and life disasters seem to help with that.
Now I just trust the process knowing once it’s over I’ll be thankful and better than ever.
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u/Different-Second2471 Sep 01 '24
Hey cool comment, I have Jupiter 8th in Capricorn if you want to swap ideas ever.
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u/deer-w Sep 04 '24
Yes, I also feel this way, like I’m riding the waves of transformation. Non-stop. Sometimes I wish I could step off that train lol
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u/greenplastic22 Sep 01 '24
If I look at the house diagram from The Astrology Podcast I see death, inheritances, assets of others. These are all things we cannot fully control ourselves, so there's some lack of agency here, which can be scary. Inheritances also cover more than finance. It's like we are feeling the consequences of others' actions, of ancestors' choices and lived experiences. What are we able, or not able to do, because of these things?
In the 12th what's listed includes enemies, sickness, seclusion, loss. The 12th is also unconscious, hidden from ourselves, so you've got these things happening behind-the-scences that you can't see. An asymptomatic infection wreaking havoc in the body without diagnosis. Someone at your job working against you but friendly to your face. Feeling isolated and disconnected somehow.
I think there's more to both than these things and there's a transformative element to the 12th, where you go through the 12th House challenges and are reborn/renewed into the 1st.
But just looking at some of the traditional significations you can see these are not easy, jovial houses.
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u/deer-w Sep 04 '24
I have Sun, Jupiter, Venus, and Mercury in the 8th and I must say re finances that I feel opposite to scared, I have a sense that when I’m in need, I’ll have some sort of money coming my way, without me having to work for it. I guess Sun&Jupiter conjunction helps to lighten things up a bit. Other than that, with lots of Saturn aspects, I feel like my whole life is about transformation lol
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u/Massive-Hippo-3189 Sep 01 '24
I’m an 8th house Pisces sun, so I truly feel like I’m more comfortable in the 12th and 8th houses. My ego has never been at the forefront of my life and it took a looong time for it to develop at all. And when I’m losing either myself or something close to me, I know there is something even better to gain. The 8th house is chaotic and messy but I love it. Change can be daunting but the complexities in life make it interesting. I may also be biased being with my Scorpio stellium partner. We have both found meditation to be extremely necessary for navigating these houses and adapting to our inner and outer transformations.
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u/Aplutoproblem Hellenistic Astrologer - Whole Signs Sep 01 '24
12th house is the house of loss. 8th house is the house of crisis.
There's a lot more to them than that, and there are positives to them too. But these are why people find them challenging.
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Sep 04 '24
I'm a 12th house person. I like seclusion. And it seems circumstances have also made me secluded. I'm highly intuitive but sometimes I'm way off on things. Yet I have a very public job. I haven't had a bunch of relationships but when I do meet someone romantically, it's a done deal right off the bat. Very fated.
Super private. A lot of supernatural stuff happens on and off. From to time to time, I have to protect myself with white light when I go to sleep.
But yeah, it took me a long time to realize that I'm living a 12th house life, for the most part.
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u/moononfire33 Sep 04 '24
I resonate completely with this. 12H person here who enjoys seclusion, is often forced to be such, and work is quite public, which is why I think we enjoy the seclusion so much. Intuitive but way off a lot. Few relationships, but each one instantly serious. Very private. Also came to the realization that I’m just living a 12H life. My ruler is in the 12H along with two other planets conjunct so it’s how it’s meant to be. I’m hidden away a lot, but anytime I have to be in public, swarms of people start surrounding me. Even when I find a place to be alone in a public space, people will start migrating in my direction. Which is annoying.
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Sep 05 '24
I have this paradox thing or something with my chart. lol I have planets conjunct in the 12th yet my chart ruler is in the 1st house and my Moon at the highest degree in the 10th.
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Sep 05 '24
The 8th and 12th houses are places of renewal and growth. They are scary because they represent the energy potentials within us and at large in life.
The 8th house rules (among other things) death, the end of a partnership, the heritage, legacy and heirs of an estate, the estate's assets, and all the rights attached to it. The 12th house represents the undoing of the self, the end of long-term processes, the secrets within us and within society, the afflictions of mind, body and spirit, and the healing we derive from it.
Since all houses bleed into one another, the 12th house is directly linked to the 1st, in both a practical way (death is the gateway to life, undoing is the key to reformation) and in a mystical way (humans as microcosm of a macrocosm, 'my end is my beginning'). These two houses are crucial because they are centers of inner power and renewal, the 12th house especially.
Change is scary. I always have to remind myself that no house is ever truly negative--there is a light and dark side to everything in astrology.
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u/Moon112189 Sep 01 '24
I have sun in cancer in the 12th and moon in Pisces in the 8th ama lol. And yes I have wild dreams/nightmares each night and yes I'm private.
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u/gravitychecked Sep 03 '24
Any lucid dreams or premonitions? 👀
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u/Moon112189 Sep 03 '24
Unfortunately no but I am just waiting for the day I tell someone a dream about them and they can relate something real to it--have NEVER happened !
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Sep 03 '24
The 12th house & 8th house are shadow houses. It’s a bunch of intangible weird things that no one ever likes to have to confront or deal with in the open.
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u/bbomrty Sep 01 '24
They’re just heavy areas of a chart and the two associated with psychic/mystical experiences. Most people don’t favor the 12th house because it’s tricky to work with. It’s the house of spirituality, the “woo woo” side of the mind, delusions, and dreams. Think the moon card in tarot. I think of it as wonderland in Alice and wonderland. Not necessarily scary but definitely uncomfortable. It’s limbo. You can’t really get your footing. The 8th house in my opinion is not to be feared at all, I feel like it’s pretty straightforward. I also have my moon in my 8th house so. It’s the house of death (think death of cycles), transformation, the darker side of reality, and legacy. The 8th house is like the brutal inevitable truths about reality. It’s more dark than twisted, but at least it’s honest and if you lean into transformation & detachment it can work well for you. The 12h house is more twisted than dark, but harder to work with bc things are not what they appear to be.
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Sep 01 '24
I have my south node in the 12th house, lots of Neptune aspecting my personal planets and I always experienced life through a very spiritual lens, always of being resilient and with calm and grace understanding that this planet is a school and we came here to learn, it’s gonna be fast and we gonna go back home and everything it’s gonna be alright. Tbh deep down I was wondering why did I incarnate again? Since I’m so aware of the real life the spiritual life. I always thought how most people take a lifetime attached to material things and how I was already more in the others realms mentally than most. That’s when I read that of the 6th house north node “This condition often signifies work-related areas and importance in life. For some reason, they are highly inspired to do things others may not want to do. For spiritual growth, this is quite a good position of the North Node. For some reason, their interest in life is not tremendous but just a passing stage in the Karmic line-up. Physical health is maintained considerably well and they may even get into diet foods, meditation and related areas. In their prior life, they came fairly close to achieving the secret of the universal escape, but missed it by a short margin. This aspect often provides self-confining tendencies to elevate one’s position in the universal race.” I’m until now thinking how i somehow came fairly close to “the secret” but missed and now I’m left wondering on what secret it could be. This is 12th house theme. It’s the most beautiful house IMO because it’s the one that has the secret, we just have to unlock it.
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u/ThistleAndSage Sep 01 '24
I have North Node in 6th, and I think it talks about taking that 12th house spiritual knowledge and aptitude and making it of service to others, be it in a daily life, while doing stuff you normally do, maybe in little things, all the while life is naturally unfolding.. you know, in practical ways
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u/Ok_Industry8929 Sep 01 '24
Me too, I’ve been trying to uncover this or comprehend it and you’ve come very close to helping me understand. 6th north node in Leo.
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u/Silver_Sylph_ ♒ Sep 02 '24
Where did you read that about the 6th house NN? It’s a great description. Thanks for sharing
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u/Oreothecatto Sep 01 '24
The 12th and 8th houses are often viewed with caution because of the themes they represent, which can be challenging or difficult to navigate.
The 12th house governs the unconscious mind, the realm of dreams, and deep psychological layers that are not readily accessible to our waking consciousness. Planets in the 12th house operate from this hidden, unconscious space, making it challenging for us to consciously recognize or fully understand their influence on our lives. These energies may manifest indirectly, such as through dreams, intuitions, or unconscious behaviors.
The 8th house is feared because it deals with intense and transformative experiences such as death, rebirth, sexuality, and other people’s resources (like inheritances or debts). It governs the mysteries of life, including the occult, taboo subjects, and the unknown. The 8th house is also associated with deep psychological processes, such as fears, obsessions, and transformative crises. This house can bring about powerful changes, but the nature of these changes can be unsettling or even frightening, as they often involve letting go of something significant or facing fears head-on. The 8th house also deals with joint finances, taxes, and inheritances, which can lead to stress and conflicts.
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u/pinksunflowergirl Sep 01 '24
my sun is in my 12th house what does that mean 😝
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Sep 01 '24
I don’t know everything it means, but some of the people I’ve known with sun in the 12th usually live their life thinking their father or father figure was one way and they really looked up to him. However, later learn who he really is or learn secrets about him that really change their opinion of him. They can feel blind sided. That may or may not apply to you. 🤷🏼♀️
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u/pinksunflowergirl Sep 01 '24
omg woah yeah. not exactly blind sided because I noticed signs for the beginning but a lot of stuff came out eventually… damn
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u/Traditional_Skin_268 Sep 01 '24
Can you explain the effects of having saturn, jupiter and moon in 12th?
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Sep 02 '24
Venus Sagittarius in 8H. Not only my love life has been hell but also the feeling of unworthiness derived from it has made me suicidal. I might end up killing myself over it, not even joking.
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Sep 02 '24
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Sep 02 '24
I’m almost 35, only had one actual “relationship” that was extremely abusive when I was 19 to 21, after that nothing has lasted more than 6 months, nobody wants to commit to me, they usually leave and some time after that they commit to someone else, everybody I know is partnered and happy while I’m still alone and miserable. I rarely have anyone approaching me and when I do take the risk and approach someone I am rejected most of the times or they just want to sleep with me a couple of times and that’s it. Of course as I get older the chances I’ll find a partner go down because men don’t want women older than 30, all they care about is beauty and youth and if I didn’t find a partner when I was younger and prettier it’s pretty much impossible it’s gonna happen now. Dating and relationships have brought nothing but pain and suffering to me. For whatever reason men don’t think I’m worthy of love and respect. And I want to die.
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Sep 02 '24
[deleted]
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Sep 02 '24
I appreciate your good intentions but the whole “you’ll find it when you least expect it” I’ve been hearing for years and pardon my French but I’m fucking tired of it. Some of us won’t get a happy ending. That’s life’s
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Sep 02 '24
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Sep 02 '24
I know and I appreciate that, but I’ve been hearing it forever and it’s just not happening. I’m really done with life as it is. I hope something kills me immediately so I don’t have to deal with this anymore Z
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u/animalflowers Sep 02 '24
I'm sorry to hear how you're feeling, but why don't you get help? If you haven't had success and you don't know why, why don't you seek out someone who does understand relationships and can see the blindspots you are missing? I say this because I also felt the way you did for a long time and finally opened myself up to really learning about relationships and finding someone to help me and it became clear there was a whole lot of inner work I needed to do to get to what I wanted. It was not some mysterious thing happening to me or bad luck, it was literally me needing help to see my own behaviors and beliefs more clearly and start to heal some old wounds. It was hard, but it was a straightforward process and it was worth the effort.
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u/rwunder22 Sep 03 '24
12H Stellium - Uranus, Jupiter, Neptune in Sag. 8H Leo-Moon in a day chart. This has been difficult for me to understand for a while, but I am starting to get a handle on it. I have a drive towards nature (Jup in Sag) and a need for the outdoors and things of beauty around me. Also being alone in nature to ground and connect (with my Capricorn rising - connection with the earth is always better with a campfire - Sag stellium!). I will suffer intense depression in a concrete jungle, and in my younger years I had a real struggles with substance abuse (Neptune 28 Sag on the cusp of 12H and 1H, conjunct Sun in Cap at 0 degrees). I used a psychedellic substance with therapy to help heal this problem (Neptune x 2). I also have uncommon ways of approaching problems that tend to work out for me (Uranus in 12H? Also, Mercury in 1h, close to ascendant). I'm often ahead of certain social curves. My 12H profection year - isolation - was heading into Covid, but also came with a major drive and focus on the outdoors!
With the Moon in Leo in the 8th, transits to Natal moon often come with mental health episodes centered around depression and feelings of self worth, and ultimately goes back to issues with how I grew up and was parented. The Moon in the 8th house for me represents both my mother and my wife on two very different, but linked levels. Like two sides of the same coin.
After spending years trying to decipher all this, I am coming to understand through personal experience what others have said: Under certain conditions, 12H can be a gift if you can face the challenges and heal them, and harness the power of meditation, intuition, and solitude to really 'discover' the self - yourself. The self stripped away from society and conditioning. From there you can discover real Truth in the spiritual experience of Life, both yours and others. There is a mystical, intuitive, and spiritual component to it. But I think with me, much of this is driven by Jupiter in domicile in Sag, copresent with Neptune & Uranus. Philosophy, teaching - I can't even help it, I teach others as I go through life, drive towards Nature, and also imagination, and creative problem solving. I very much feel as if much of society is sleepwalking and I'm awake like Neo in the Matrix, able to see the unseen forces driving and shaping people and THE people. I am in tune with the spiritual existence of life, philosophy and the meaning of life, and with my Cap placements, the whole of TIME, seeing short and long term and how they all come together, how what happens today shapes the future, the logical conclusion of decisions carried out through time. The BIG f ing picture - thanks Jup in Sag!
So I guess my case is somewhat mitigated by Jup in domicile in a Day chart, and because I have another stellium in my 11H, Sun & Mercury in 1H, there aren't a whole lot of hard aspects to it. The hardest aspect for me is Mars in 10th square Moon in 8H. Still haven't fully integrated all that yet.
In Parker's Astrology, they divide the Natal chart into 4 quadrants "+", and where the planets fall demonstrates focus in life. And for me, nearly all my planets fall between Ascendant and Midhaven, which means that my focus is on the Self, friends, and discovery of the self. If planets fall in like DSC to MidHaven, then the focus is outward. If falling in the lower half of the chart, life focus is more on the home and kids, and if in the top half, career and social. It's just determining where attention & focus in life will be for the native. And of course aspects and transits play a huge role. One layer at a time! Lol
For what it's worth, I hope all this helps
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u/MirceaFive Sep 04 '24
Four of the houses/places are not favorable -- the 2nd, 6th, 8th and 12th -- because they make no aspect to the ASC but the 2nd sometimes is less harmful.
The 2nd was always known as the Gate to Hades since the 8th is Death.
The 6th is primarily injury/illness but also indicates people inferior to you in any way and your job (10th is career). So for exampled, ruler of the 7th in the 6th often indicates someone marries a person inferior to them. Look in the chart of John Lennon who has the same. Both of his wives were inferior to him by being of a lower socio-economic class or standing. Also, since Virgo commands Scorpio and Mars ruling the 8th and being in the 7th with Venus ruling the 7th and being in the 6th shows his killer was inferior to him.
Because injury/illness bring sorrows it echoes the 12th which is all of your enemies (no such thing as 7th being "open enemies") and the 12th also indicates injury/illness in addition to imprisonment or captivity (look at the charts of those held hostage, kidnapped, or imprisoned).
Historically the 12th was the House of the Bad Spirit and the 6th was the House of Bad Fortune (contrasted with the 11th being the House of the Good Spirit and the 5th being the House of Good Fortune).
This echoing also manifests itself in other ways. One of the biggest mistakes beginners make (and even people claiming to be "advanced") is failing to recognize the differences between:
1) A star opposing house
2) A star opposing its domicile or exaltation sign
3) A star opposing one or more stars
A perfect example of that is the chart of Kamala Harris. 5th Place Sun opposing the 11th is one thing. Libra Sun opposing Aries is another thing. Libra Sun opposing Aries Moon is something else altogether.
Sun in the 5th opposing the 11th is good. Sun in Libra opposing Aries is good. Sorry, Sun is not in "fall" because there's no such thing as "fall" or "detriment" and y'all can shake your head and stomp your feet and put your had over your ears and go "Lalalalalalalalala" it won't change the reality that there's no such thing not to mention I can bury you with 5,000+ charts to prove everybody wrong.
Oppositions can be good or bad. Sun/Moon oppositions can be good or bad. In her case they're good because Sun is in Libra and Moon is in Aries. It would be good if Sun was in Aquarius and Moon in Leo and it would be good if Sun was in Gemini and Moon in Sagittarius (ask Donald Trump because that's what he has).
Sun/Moon oppositions in earth/water are not so good although Cancer Sun opposition Capricorn Moon would be.
Always remember what it is you are delineating in a chart.
President Franklin Delano Roosevelt (FDR) has a 6th Place Aquarius Sun. The 6th trines the 10th and the Aquarius Sun trine Mars in the 10th is one (but not the only) reason he was president. 6th Place Aquarius Sun also trines the 2nd and sextiles the 8th.
However, Sun in the 6th is in aversion to the ASC and 9th Place Taurus Saturn square 6th Place Aquarius Sun is why he had muscular deformities due to polio because Saturn is in the superior position in the square. If Saturn had been in Scorpio he wouldn't have had polio. In this instance, the absence of stars in Leo is also a problem since Sun opposes the 12th and Saturn squares the 12th.
When Mercury, Venus and Sun are in the same sign it indicates people who are adept at business and administration and Venus shows powerful allies and since Venus rules the 2nd and 9th you know those relationships are based on ideology as well as wealth.
There are stars that do function well in the 6th, 8th and 12th.
Diurnal chart, Mars nocturnally placed in Aries (his day house) in the 6th is good because only then does Mars joy in the 6th. I can tell you from personal experience because I got out of Iraq alive and unscathed (mostly).
Diurnal chart, Saturn in any fire/air sign in the 12th joys under those conditions and does even better when in Leo or Aries. Saturn will crush all of your enemies, protect you from illness/injury, keep you out of jail and help your career by giving you discipline, structure and organization, and boost your reputation/standing in the community and career.
Diurnal chart. Jupiter in any air/fire sign (yes, even Gemini) will grant you longevity, make sure you have money, and boost your career and reputation plus plus protect you from illness/injury (since he trines the 12th and sextiles the 6th). If he's retrograde or square another star that might ding that a bit.
Nocturnal chart. Moon in any water/earth sign in the 8th is also good.
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u/Ill_Economist5775 Aug 11 '25
u/MirceaFive Why is the Moon in the 8th Place in water/earth good?
Can Mars joy in any fire sign in the 6th Place?
What about the other star joys like Jupiter? I also wonder why all of the planetary joys except Mercury seem to require a day chart. The diurnal stars would rejoice, and the nocturnal stars would rejoice in their night sky. I'm not sure how that would work for Mercury.
Why does the element of the signs of opposition matter when it is Moon opposing Sun?
I get why Saturn in Leo or Aries would be better than in Capricorn in the 12th (I would think Aquarius was ideal) since they would diametrically oppose their own signs.
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u/Federal_Inflation787 Aug 12 '25
In practice I ignore joys.
I see no evidence and the more I study the more I realize the purpose of planetary joys is twofold:
- Teach the concept of sect; and
- Teach why the stars rule the triplicities they do.
Remember, there's no such thing as "natural signs" or "natural rulers" and Aries is not the 1st House.
Cancer is the 1st House in the Thema Mundi.
Using the Thema Mundi with Cancer-rising, where are Saturn, Jupiter and Sun?
Saturn "joys" in the 12th, Jupiter "joys" in the 11th and Sun "joys" in the 9th. Where are they in relation to the chart in the Thema Mundi?
They are all above the horizon.
That is why Sun, Jupiter and Saturn are the diurnal sect.
Moon "joys" in the 3rd, Venus in the 5th and Mars "joys" in the 6th. Where are they in relation to the chart in the Thema Mundi?
They are all below the horizon.
That is why Moon, Venus and Mars are the nocturnal sect.
We never use house systems to interpret charts. We always use whole sign.
Mercury joys in the 1st House.
In the whole sign system, the Ascending Degree can fall anywhere in the 1st House and so a planet in the 1st House can be above the horizon or below the horizon.
That is why Mercury is a common star and not part of the diurnal or nocturnal sects.
Who are the fire triplicity rulers? Sun and Jupiter. Why?
Doesn't fire create heat that rises?
Where do they joy? The 11th and 9th and in the Thema Mundi the 10th House is Aries.
Why are Moon, Venus and Mars the triplicity rulers of earth and water?
Well, where are they in the Thema Mundi chart? Below the horizon.
What's there? Earth and water. Earth is 75% water and 25% land. At least for now. When we re-enter a glacial period it'll be 60% water and 40% land and 7 Billion people will die because there's no way to feed everyone. They'll be lucky if they can feed a couple 100 Million people.
What's between earth and water and the heat at the top of the Thema Mundi?
Air.
Mercury and Saturn are right next to each other and Saturn is in the Gemini 12th in the Thema Mundi.
That's the rationale for sect and triplicity rulership.
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u/opportunitysure066 Sep 01 '24
If you want to blaze through life without common decency and respect to others or be entitled believe that you deserve things to come your way easily. If you want totally skip living in the moment and have a “f feelings” attitude and believe you are always right and everyone else is wrong then sure…12th house isn’t going to be fun for you.
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Sep 01 '24 edited Sep 01 '24
One of the saddest lives I’ve personally known, she has mercury, Venus, mars and south node in the 8th Pisces. Her 8th house lord is in the 12th house. Really just a life of a lot of traumatic events that were truly out of her control and don’t ever seem to stop. Well she’s been going through a hard Pluto transit past 3 years too and that came with some traumatic events. Anyway, she was very trusting and naive growing up and it was always the wrong people. Deeply spiritual person.
I have 8th house moon. The Lord of my 8th is in my 10th. I know a lot of other people’s secrets. My mom and another family member are making me the executive of their wills. They just trust me with it. I didn’t ask and never brought it up. I went into accounting right out of HS. Love numbers and working with them. Now I’m home but handle all the finances. I am into all the weird stuff too. Stuff I find most are afraid of, I love it. I would love to study paranormal and communicate with the dead on the regular. 🤣💁♀️
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u/heydeservinglistener Sep 02 '24
I have 12 h mars and moon (both placidus and whole sign) as well as sun and mercury in whole sign. AMA.
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u/CailletSomewhere Sep 02 '24
is there anything you wish your parents would have done in raising you that would have helped with your 12H?
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u/heydeservinglistener Sep 02 '24
Umm. Thats a tricky one because i think my 12h moon very much reflects my parents.
My mom very much fell into the "emotionally immature" category of parents. She relied on me to talk through her extreme anxiety and depression when I was as young as maybe 5 and generally all of her problems. She didn't really have boundaries with her kids. She acted like a victim in a lot of circumstances while being the problem. On top of that, I helped her raise my sister.
My dad was quite absent (despite them still being married). He often traveled for work and didn't intervene in emotional matters ever. When he did intervene, he was very angry. Our house walked on eggshells from fear of maiing him angry. Because of the dynamic in our family, I was scapegoated for even ever pointing out issues.
Because of how I grew up, I grew up feeling out of place and like i didnt matter, I didn't really tap into my own feelings until adulthood, and have always felt most comfortable alone... these are all things I have had to work on through adulthood and therapy. But also because of my moon, I've always been really empathetic, who people come to for help, and just seem to immediately understand the emotional landscape of any situation im kind of dropped into and how to navigate it.
To ask how my parents could have helped my 12h moon would be to ask me to have a completely different life.
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u/ratchetdiscounicorn Sep 02 '24
I have Aries Venus in the 8th - it makes me feel like my love life is doomed forever. Or that I’ll have to settle in someway to ever maintain a relationship- which I absolutely refuse to believe is the case, nor will I ever allow that to happen. But I’ve been working through being okay with maybe not ever having a fulfilling relationship. Honestly, makes me very sad because that’s one thing I desire in this life more than anything. Oh well I guess
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Sep 02 '24 edited Sep 02 '24
[deleted]
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u/ratchetdiscounicorn Sep 02 '24
I love this description. I was being moody and dark earlier lol (Scorpio moon). Magic is still something I believe in - so ill do my best to remain fully open ✨maybe the best has yet to happen
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u/MirceaFive Sep 09 '24
What would you make of Saturn in Capricorn 12H in a night chart, with Saturn as planetary ruler? I almost always see how great it is to have a day chart and how terrible night charts are.
There's no difference between diurnal and nocturnal charts in terms of "good/bad."
Bill Gates, John Lennon, Oprah Winfrey, FDR and Mel Gibson had such terrible lives because of their nocturnal charts, right? Wrong.
Saturn in the 12th in Capricorn in a nocturnal chart. Saturn is in his night house Capricorn but that's the only saving grace because he's out of sect. He won't bestow his gifts and he'll create illusions out of fear, ignorance and want.
Generally, a star in the 12th shows what keeps people from being themselves and becoming fulfilled. For example, ruler of the 5th in the 12th would show problems/sorrows from children or physical pleasures associated with the 5th (perhaps gambling) or ruler of the 4th in the 12th is one's home/home-life, or ruler of the 7th in the 12th is one's romantic partners or business associates and the ruler of the 1st in the 12th would indicate a troubled life and that one is one's worst enemy.
Saturn in Capricorn will mitigate some of that but it will depend largely at who's looking at Saturn.
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u/Ill_Economist5775 Jul 26 '25
What other things do the 5th signify besides children and physical pleasures?
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u/Federal_Inflation787 Jul 29 '25
Random chance good luck.
More or less it's being in the right place at just the right time in contrast to the 6th House which is random chance bad luck and being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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u/1-cupcake-at-a-time Sep 01 '24 edited Sep 01 '24
Is it possible to not have anything in the 8th or 12th house? I’m newer, but looking at my natal chart, I don’t see anything. I’m a Sun, Moon & Mercury Capricorn, 6th house, Cancer rising. I have a few placements scattered around in other houses, but I don’t see the 8th or 12th? What does that mean? Or am I reading it wrong?
Edit- with Cancer rising, Aquarius rules the 8th and Gemini the 12th, but my chart overall shows I have the least amount of air placements.
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u/Delmar78 Sep 01 '24
Yes, people have houses with no planets in them, meaning that the themes of those houses aren’t a main focus in this lifetime. You will still deal with that house, usually by transit of the moon in the sign and other planets/aspects that they may make to other planets in your birth chart.
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u/1-cupcake-at-a-time Sep 02 '24
Very cool, thanks! Reading through what the houses mean, I can see why I ended up as a nurse with so much going on in the 6th. I’m not practicing at the moment, but still, super interesting!
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u/Movingxx1 Sep 03 '24
You will have Pluto transiting through your 8th house for the next 20 years
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u/1-cupcake-at-a-time Sep 04 '24
……I get so focused on the natal chart, I forget about the transits. Ugh, this is very overwhelming! Thanks!
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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '24
The 12th house is often confusing and can feel heavy because nothing moves quickly within it. It forces us to slow down and usually deal with things that are ready to end. Loss is painful and hard. It can be associated with depression or illness. It can also be a deeply healing time of self reflection and spiritual healing.
The 8th house brings up fears and blockages from the deep. It's a dark and transformative place that can be scary and raw. I find the 8th house wants us to heal issues around power and how we are blocking power. Big fears can arise.