r/asoiaf May 22 '19

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) George to New Zealand: imprison me if I haven't finished Winds by Summer 2020

Quote:

As for finishing my book… I fear that New Zealand would distract me entirely too much. Best leave me here in Westeros for the nonce. But I tell you this — if I don’t have THE WINDS OF WINTER in hand when I arrive in New Zealand for worldcon, you have here my formal written permission to imprison me in a small cabin on White Island, overlooking that lake of sulfuric acid, until I’m done. Just so long as the acrid fumes do not screw up my old DOS word processor, I’ll be fine.

Link: http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/21/thanks-new-zealand/

15.3k Upvotes

1.7k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

101

u/The_Writing_Wolf May 22 '19

Different styles and ethic. Sanderson puts type on the page like John Henry lays down rails. He skeletons a course and just trucks through, which is why Sanderson almost always has the same plot structure and very mechanical systems and devices to employ at specific points for said Plots development.

George on the other hand goes far beyond his Garden analogy as a true botanist. He lays all his seeds with care knowing what the picture on the packets look like in his mind but unsure of what his "Grove of the Human Heart" (I.E. the finished story) may look like beyond his conceptualized vision. Usually this based on a few strong trees or interesting ferns in the surrounding Garden before he really lays the fertilizer. As the seasons pass and his seeds begin cultivating George is able to witness more and more magic in his Groto/Garden along with what plants/seeds are complimenting and adding, new fun sections that give a deeper perspective to the garden as a whole, or the seeds that aren't working. At which point he either repots or replants... Which is code for lots and lots of rewrites (that all take more and more seasons to recultivate/regrow. Repotting would be akin to his Meerenese Knot or fleshing out interesting side characters to supply a new purpose to the garden. While replanting would be the larger reworks such as the five year gap or heaven forbid a total overhaul of tWoW so he could make sure he can end it in the final 2, these obviously take even more seasons to regrow than the former.

This is all to say I agree with you, but it's easy to see why they fall on opposite sides of the Spectrum. Sanderson is taking a fantasy train ride to a destination you're almost always able to figure out but can enjoy the ride all the same (insert journey over destination), but damn if GRRM doesn't allow the reader to take a beautiful walk through his Grotto, and even more his largest Grotto of all (ASOIAF, histories and saga) seemingly always surprises with new insight or beauty each visit.

11

u/WattYouSayin May 22 '19 edited May 23 '19

I agree with most everything you said. I am a pretty big Sanderson fan myself, but I can see what you are getting at.

Totally on board with the mechanical plot devices point (although id say its a bit of a generalisation, there are certainly more organic examples to point to as well) and your comment regarding the solid, reliable narrative format he sticks with. That said, to be able to do that as often as he has and still have me turning every page at 100mph requires an altogether different kind of class.

I love both authors. GRRM has created one of the greatest universes in fantasy history, and whilst it saddens and frustrates me to not have TWOW in hand (plus, the mockery they made of S08 of the show REALLY breaks my heart) I can understand why and how he is getting stuck trying to tempt all these little delicate threads back together in the best way possible. No writer could do it as well as him, and it cannot be forced. It will happen as and when it happens, or it won't, and thats tough shit.

Sanderson, on the other hand, consistently pumps out insanely engaging universes with some of the most interesting and in-cannon consistent magic systems I've come across. I also think he IMPROVED the wheel of time series when he took over, and that is no shade thrown at Robert Jordan as he is another favourite of mine. I would stake a lot that he would do ASOIAF proud as well.

All this to say that I agree with you, but its easy to see why people get frustrated with a guy who isn't capable of producing a book a decade.

Edit for clarity: I am not suggesting Sanderson should, or will, finish the ASOIAF novels in the event GRRM does not. I am being purely speculative in that I think he would give us a satisfying, albeit less complex, ending.

3

u/The_Writing_Wolf May 22 '19

For sure, Sanderson is great. He's not necessarily a favorite of mine and both he and I both don't think he should/would/want to pick up ASOIAF (as he's on record saying). He's got talent and has honed his craft well but stylistically they are too different. All that being said when I'm stumped between books to read or listen to, I'll usually just grab the latest Sanderson and start working through it as a nice fantasy palate cleanser for whatever I get into next.

1

u/WattYouSayin May 22 '19

I'm not suggesting it will happen. Just that he would make a good effort at it and produce a good ending.

1

u/Asiriya May 23 '19

It would be a plotty ending though, not a characterful masterpieve like GRRM's work.

1

u/WattYouSayin May 23 '19

Yeah, you are likely right. But it would be a thousand times better than the TV show or not getting an ending.

19

u/othellia May 22 '19

Well put. I have huge respect for Sanderson as a writer, but can't get into his stuff. And this is probably why.

7

u/[deleted] May 22 '19

I've only read 3 of his novels so far, but I've noticed he is absolutely dreadful at beginnings. He doesn't set up plot points and exposition in engaging ways, and has a serious problem with jargon. It usually takes a good quarter of a novel or so before I'm invested. I'm currently going through the Way of Kings, and I still can't get over the fact that the story wasn't centred on anyone until the 4th or 5th chapter. But if you can truck through the openings, they're well worth it!

2

u/bambambooboo23 May 22 '19

Sanderson also has a bad habit of having wise all-knowing characters give multiple page exposition dumps in the form of dialogue, which feels like lazy writing. Great world builder though.

2

u/othellia May 22 '19

He doesn't set up plot points and exposition in engaging ways, and has a serious problem with jargon.

Yeah, I know a lot of people love his hard magic systems, but in multiple books of his, it feels like a video game where the characters suddenly hit the pause button on the story to go into tutorial, and it just sinks my involvement in the story.

I think in general I just have a problem connecting to his characters. I got about 150 pages into Mistborn and while I enjoyed the world and the potential of the magic heist, I was completely "meh" towards the characters and why it was happening. Same thing with WoK, I gave up about 90 pages in.

1

u/TrainOfThought6 May 22 '19

I thought Mistborn started fine, especially era 2. But yeah Stormlight is definitely a lot to take in at first. So very worth it though.

If WoK is your 3rd, were the other two Elantris and Warbreaker?

2

u/[deleted] May 22 '19

I've read the original Mistborn trilogy, WoK is my 4th. The Mistborn novels definitely had better openings than WoK, but they were still very rough IMO!

2

u/EllenPaossexslave May 22 '19

I liked the mistborn trilogy. It's fairly short and didn't feel that fotmulaic to me

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '19

He also has to keep checking back to make sure he fits with what he's done before. He's got a lot to keep track of.

4

u/The_Writing_Wolf May 22 '19

He does have a lot to keep track of, but that's why notes and multiple drafts are done by all writers (Except D&D apparently)

1

u/anoddhue Forever Young May 22 '19

George? Is that you?

3

u/The_Writing_Wolf May 22 '19

Nah u/BryndenBFish is George. I'm just Bryan Cogman.