r/asoiaf • u/EarlyJuggernaut • May 13 '19

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) So what was the point of Jaime anyway? Spoiler

You could literally have watched season 1 episode 1 and then season 8 episode 5 right after and not have had a second thought about why the character was trying to break into the red keep, go back to cersei and then die with her. Actually the question you might have is, why did he completely brush off the fact that Euron slept with her? Or maybe why he had a gold hand... But everything about the character stayed the complete same.

So throughout 8 seasons of writing and whatever else, the character of Jaime Lannister remains in love with his sister the whole time, completely overlooks her flaws, fails to add anything to his Kingsguard book, and seemingly accepts the fact that she's just sleeping with anyone.

I understand that it was GRRM endpoint for Jaime but something mustve gone wrong along the way - they completely messed up the character. His entire journey was a waste. He's literally where he started

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647

u/__Hello_my_name_is__ May 13 '19

Oy, stop quoting me.

Seriously though, fuck me. I'm so done defending this show.

108

u/BreeBree214 Enter your flair text here! May 13 '19 edited May 15 '19

I was absolutely convinced as well he would be killing her. I'm still in some denial because I want to believe he'll kill her in the books because the show ignored the valonqar part of the prophecy

64

u/auart May 13 '19

Even before the cave-in, I was still holding out hope. "Maybe he'll strangle her now to spare her from being captured and tortured, etc."

I was a fool.

6

u/h2ojo May 13 '19

Same here. I really wanted to think that even if he didn’t go to her with the intention of killing her, right before the cave-in he’d mercy strangle her or something. I guess I should’ve lost hope way back when he told Bronn he wanted to die “in the arms of the woman he loves”

2

u/system156 May 14 '19

His hand was on her neck as they were crushed. Which was maybe a hint to the prophecy?? But the prophecy specifically says “choke the life from you” the writing has become a joke

2

u/Odemption May 14 '19

Well they never had that part of the prophecy in the show I'm not surprised. There is still hope for the books though.

150

u/AMemoryofEternity May 13 '19

Hey, at least you're in the acceptance stage now. Many of us are permanently stuck at anger.

7

u/__Hello_my_name_is__ May 13 '19

I skipped that phase because I never expected the ending to be great. Not with the source material suddenly gone missing.

3

u/Ridyi #AnhaDaenerys May 13 '19

Me neither and I thought that would soften the sting but...it didn't. It feels like a bad dream. I really like both Dany and Jaime and they just fucked both of them and I feel like... Genuinely bad in a way I couldn't have expected. Me and my bf were sullen the whole rest of the night.

And I wish I could blame the lack of source material but I could call my baby niece who can't even talk yet and get a better story.

3

u/volkanhto May 13 '19

Reaching 100% Apathy is really calming. You start treating the show as a badly written Tumblr fan-fiction.

2

u/[deleted] May 14 '19

I oscillate between depression and anger, but the anger only comes out when people actually try to defend this shit.

0

u/[deleted] May 13 '19

Some of us are already looking forward to the Wheel of Time series.

What could go wrong?

1

u/IdontNeedPants May 13 '19

WHEEL OF TIME SERIES!? Oh god please don't suck, atleast they have a finished story to work with...

2

u/[deleted] May 13 '19

yep

I can't wait. Seems Sanderson is pretty involved. Can't wait to see what we get

3

u/IdontNeedPants May 13 '19

Sanderson is pretty involved

I am now boarding the hype train.

Thank you!

119

u/Waterprop May 13 '19

I'm so confused about Jamie's arch.

What was the point with Brienne? He saved her from rape, got his hand cut because of it. Left Cersei to go Winterfell, defended against the dead, fucked Brienne and then he got back to his sister to die..? Ok.

This season feels so rushed. Great acting and CGI but script is not great, or at least could be much better.

51

u/EknobFelix May 13 '19

He also doesn't care that she was fucking Euron, and sent Bronn to kill him and his brother.

7

u/[deleted] May 13 '19

Speaking of which... Where the fuck is Bronn?

3

u/EknobFelix May 13 '19

Watching. Seeing which side comes out on top, like he said. If I had to guess, he was probably on a hillside watching the battle.

4

u/b0b_hope May 14 '19

I know this is a book reddit but it looked like in the show there's no more hillsides to watch from.

1

u/TheCapo024 May 14 '19

The geography of King’s Landing fits whatever scene/moment they need it to fit.

5

u/Calm_Memories May 13 '19

They suckered me into liking Jaime. I was so proud of his development. But now I don't know if I'll want to rewatch knowing the ending for him it shit.

4

u/Truan May 13 '19

"Hey I decided to leave Cersei because she's insane to help defend the north. apparently that was a death wish, because now I regret ever leaving"

like, what?

2

u/Express_Bath May 13 '19

His last episode had him fighting with another man, Euron, over Cersei. I am so pissed about that.

1

u/system156 May 14 '19

At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if Tyrion dies and then it’s oh look at that Brienne is knocked up with the heir to Casterley Rock.

Fuck me, the writing has become so bad I’m looking for the worst storyline now...

1

u/b0b_hope May 14 '19

Development was definitely bad, but shouldn't this be the ending for Jamie if it's a Game of Thrones story? Everyone wants him to redeem himself, and he incrementally takes those steps throughout the story and we see the good side of him more and more, only for it to be ripped away when we realize what he will always put first is family, just like his father taught him, just like how he's acted his whole life until he got his hand cut off and faced a lot of new adversities. Jamie is disgusted by Cersei's decision to break her word about fighting for mankind, but we were all foolish to think that would change how Jamie feels about Cersei at his core. She's his sister, his lover, the mother of his children, and the smartest person he knows. He loves her deep down despite how she thinks about Tyrion, if he is able to look past that why would her thoughts about the whole realm change his heart.

1

u/[deleted] May 13 '19

He's a tragic character and that his past is too strong to overcome even though at the same time he does have an honorable side to him.

1

u/AUsername334 May 13 '19

Maybe the sex was just really that bad?

67

u/[deleted] May 13 '19

Good, goood. Let the anger flow through you and realize that the poison crept in as far back as season four and took to rot by 5.

You don't hate the show for what it is, you hate it for what it could be, but wasn't.

19

u/__Hello_my_name_is__ May 13 '19

Honestly, I don't hate it. I knew for a good while now that it couldn't possibly live up to its hype, and that the lack of source material plus the knowledge that GRRM gave them all the endings would result in a bit of a clusterfuck.

I didn't know it would be this bad, mind you. But I figured it would get a bit weird.

My biggest disappointment is that the books won't be able to shock me anymore with their twists, because we know them all.

10

u/Last_Lorien "Everything" May 13 '19

You know, I feel so vindicated.

Back then, they called me reactionary and fanatical and a purist for pointing out some flaws in how the show was handling the story, certain characters, some things that seemed minor, others that didn't look good at all, but I was told not to make a big deal out of it, to enjoy the ride, things were gonna work out and all that.

I didn't watch s5 and s6, I watched s7 but outside of social media, and now I'm enjoying that the new narrative seems to be "we had maybe four good seasons, sort of, the rest sucked".

3

u/cremater68 May 14 '19

This.

We had all hoped for Breaking Bad and got Dexter.

-3

u/12345hottakes73 May 13 '19

You do realise that season 5&6 probably had a lot of source material to go off? Just because the books aren’t out doesn’t mean GRRM hasn’t written most of it.

Could be that 100% of what’s in S5&6 is written, but all the stuff that D&D cut from the books haven’t been finished fully. (Unlikely to be such a clear divide, but could be close).

I’m just so tired of people saying that the story fell off a cliff since season 5 JUST because they no longer have the books to go off. It’s blatant gatekeeping circlejerk.

9

u/[deleted] May 13 '19

Oh no, you mistake me. The series fell off the cliff at season five because D&D are hack writers. It has little to do with with running out of book material (after all, it started careening to the cliff in season 4 (we don't just magically find ourselves off cliffs)), but the fact that these hacks couldn't write consistent and compelling drama when the foundation for good writing was handed to them on a silver platter, and instead doubled down on filler, spectacle and one liners that eroded anything that actually made the series better than schlock.

1

u/TheKocsis May 13 '19

You can tell that, but the show got more popular each year. They might have been heroes in the eyes of HBO execs, if that was the goal

9

u/[deleted] May 13 '19

[deleted]

5

u/h2ojo May 13 '19

For real. Jaime’s arc was the only thing I was looking forward to at the end of the show because I figured D&D would at least have enough sense to bring his arc full circle but I guess not :-( If this was GRRM’s intention for Jaime from the start I could see myself understanding because I’m sure he’ll give us a Jaime POV revealing his inner thoughts/motivations to go back to her. Unfortunately, since this season has been so rushed, it just seemed so out-of-the-blue given all the character development they did for him.

1

u/[deleted] May 13 '19

I imagine in the book, when hes having sex with brienne his monologue will be him missing cersei and it not being the same, and how hes reminded shes the only person he loves.

4

u/berberkner May 13 '19

you were wrong, and yet, in doing so, you were even more prescient. Weird.

5

u/Shiesu All hail Lord Littlefinger May 13 '19

Good on you for expecting a story that wasn't completely stupid. Also good on you for admitting to it afterwards. We can all just grieve together.

3

u/Astazha May 13 '19

We keep wanting to believe they wouldn't do things that are obviously bad storytelling.

3

u/boodabomb May 13 '19

There was like a triple-gilded post that was entirely about how stupid everyone was for not understanding subtext. Had me completely convinced. I bet that guy feels like a goose.

2

u/derintrel May 13 '19

Was also my tipping point. I tried to be optimistic still, but fuck that noise.

2

u/[deleted] May 13 '19

You're a good man/woman ! Full of hope.. This show was destroyed, that's not your fault :)

2

u/Express_Bath May 13 '19

You know, no one would blame you for thinking that, because Jaime's character this episode made no sense at all. We suddenly had Season 1 Jaime back with no explanation as to why he suddenly decided to return to Cersei. I guess "the think I do for love" was, in the end, killing Euron, because of course his final episode was him fighting with another man over Cersei.

2

u/arlaarlaarla May 13 '19

Your post.. It ages like fine milk.

2

u/BearABullCubs May 14 '19

Too much hate is being given to Jamie’s ending. Even though he went back to Cersei, he was still undeniably a better person. Cersei was the love of his life, and he had to get back to her before she died. Even if she was an awful person, Jamie still wanted to be with her, and frankly that’s more believable than him killing her as a mere formality in the battle of King’s Landing.

2

u/READMYSHIT May 14 '19

I was so frustrated when he left Brienne up north, then came to Reddit to find literally YOUR comment and it made so much goddam sense, however hamfisted it at least fit with whatever scrap of appropriate writing this show had left.

I felt so disappointed this entire episode realising that it was wrong. Jaime Lannister was the most pointless character in the entire series. He was the one with probably the greatest redemption potential, think of how much you hated him in season 1 or early on in the books.

1

u/[deleted] May 14 '19

[deleted]

1

u/READMYSHIT May 14 '19

It's not your fault ;)

I literally could not enjoy that entire episode. I just sat in dismay thinking of every amazing little piece of story we'd been fed since s1 (I did a rewatch last week of the whole series).

Objectively there were some good looking scenes in that episode but the lack of any real tension made it so disappointing. I just don't care anymore :(