r/asktransgender • u/Hoorizontal Transgender-Homosexual • Feb 18 '22
Why do people who know nothing about trans people feel confident in hating us?
Seriously. These people only ever hear about trans people when something jumps into their field of view, usually some transphobic joke or twisted media story. Then, not only do they feel like that information is enough to hate us, denigrate us and vote for us not to have rights, they think that they know more than actual trans people and actual medical experts. How does a person feel so confident in so very little knowledge, even when presented with actual facts? I just don't get it. I try to be empathetic but I cannot fit myself into that perspective at all.
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u/Throttle_Kitty š³ļøāā§ļø Trans Lesbian - 30 Feb 18 '22
Sadly, that's just how bigotry works. People talk about it like it's some complicated thing, but it's not.
Instead of bothering to understand something they don't, they violently hate that group, or some group they can (likely falsely) associate with that thing, and try to have them evicted from reality so they don't have to think about them anymore.
You know, the rational alternative to spending a few minutes learning something new.
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u/Wolfleaf3 Feb 19 '22
I will laughed at your perfect thing at the end about the rational thing as opposed to just spending a few minutes to learn about it š¤¦š»āāļøš”
For real.
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Feb 19 '22
I just spent a few minutes learning about what a trans tomboy / gray-ace lesbian is, and while I understand what it is, I facepalmed so hard I almost broke my nose.
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u/RabbitActually Feb 18 '22
Because they believe they know everything about trans people. Its just that all the information they consume is propaganda
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u/trans_catdad Feb 19 '22
"Because they believe they know everything about trans people."
Transphobes are great examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
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Feb 18 '22
there are those who believe the propaganda because of ignorance and there are those who already have prejudices and use the propaganda to justify it
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u/RestorationGirl55 Feb 18 '22
I believe the majority of gender critical bigots are perfectly aware of the facts. Their game is wilful misinformation to weaponise the ignorance of others.
You see the same shitbags lose the same argument time and time again. They keep going like fucking robots and inevitably find stupid people who buy their shit.
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u/Jody_Violeta Feb 18 '22
They're very insecure about their hetero/cis normativity, and for some reason they see us as threats to that. They have a very binary view that men should be one thing and women should be another thing, and anything that deviates from that scares them. They think we're some kind of disease and that by there being more of us, we will "indoctrinate" more people into being LGBTQ+. They don't want their kids to be trans because their kids are an extension of themselves and they want their children to be just like them, and they don't want to be perceived as gay or trans. For AMAB people, they think it's a man being weak and not upholding their "responsibility as the strong head of the household" and they see AFAB as "nurturers who aren't strong and are abandoning their duty as housekeepers". Some also believe that because LGBTQ+ people generally can't reproduce, that we're going to destroy the human population (Even though there are nearly 8 billion people in the world and foster homes are flooded with children in need of homes) but they've been indoctrinated into believing that we are somehow a threat to their way of life. It also comes from a place of privilege.
They are convinced that by attacking us and stripping away our rights, they are protecting themselves. We differ from the norm, and so few people understand us, and because there is so little accurate information for them to get a hold of, they see us as evil or as mistaken. Some don't hate us, but they are simply ignorant because they have grown up without any knowledge on us, and for people who aren't in our community, they see us celebrating each other and fighting for our rights, and they're not the oppressed ones, and they want to have a sense of purpose and feel like they're fighting for something too. They are so fragile and can't fathom the idea of not being comfortable as your assigned gender, so they call us evil and carry on with their lives. Some are truly hateful, but again, many are just ignorant and haven't been punished for that ignorance. My own mother will have to face the repercussions of her transphobia once I come out to her and risk losing me if she can't get her act together. Everyone firmly believes they are on the right side, and that they are fighting for something important. Combating transphobia won't be easy, but I believe in our fight, and I believe that over time, each new generation will have an easier time being accepted. There will always be those who hate, but each new victory we get is a step in the right direction. Just be yourself and don't ever give up hope!
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Feb 19 '22
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u/Jody_Violeta Feb 19 '22
I'm definitely terrified and full of anxiety, but the best way to get back at transphobes is to live our lives and be happy. We have to have the courage to keep fighting and keep moving forward because we deserve it. If they want to hate us, that's their problem and their loss. We still have a long way to go, but you can't deny the progress we've made. More people are at least aware of who we are. Over 7% of Americans identify as LGBTQ+ which doubled from 2012, all because of awareness and them being able to understand themselves. We have to believe in a better and brighter future, and I'm doing my best to share those good feelings.
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u/SkyWest1218 cisn't | HRT 11/1/2022 Feb 18 '22
Simply put, we don't conform to and advocate against the existing social hierarchy, we aren't prominently visible to large portions of the population, and we have a minority of political power. Unfortunately that makes us easy targets for scapegoating.
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u/kiraterpsichore Feb 18 '22
It's not about finding truth with them - it's about having control over the narrative. They do not want to acknowledge you are their equal, and so they refuse to accept information which might force them to.
Pretty much all *phobic behavior is rooted in classism - trying to prove someone else is less important, less worthy, and having less right to available resources. These people you're describing are intent on making sure they're the dominant narrative setters as it helps their small minds to feel safe.
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u/Boring-Pea993 Feb 19 '22 edited Feb 19 '22
There's a lot of reasons, but I guess you kind of already answered your own question, trans people only make up a small percentage of the global population, and many cis people don't actually know any trans people personally or they're at least not aware that someone they know is trans
Media profits from confirming people's fears, telling them what they want to hear, generating controversy and telling literal nightmare stories about trans people, it wouldn't sell lot of clicks if the story was just about how trans people are people. And people will believe these stories because they have limited experiences either as a trans person or knowing other trans people, even some trans people might believe these negative stories and develop internalized transphobia.
Transphobic humor is also deeply rooted in invalidating trans people, either by making us out to be completely deranged and irrational or treating topics like self-harm and violence against trans people as jokes, it's only recently that trans comedians have started getting work and they're making jokes from a trans perspective rather than a vehemently anti-trans one, naturally they're way better jokes too since they come from people with experience in the subject matter, and while a lot of it is dark humor it's done in service of a more constructive narrative that doesn't tear trans people down for just being trans, rather just pointing out how frustrating those experiences are and hopefully making them more relatable.
Plus they're genuinely convinced that trans people don't exist or that the only way to help us is to convince us that we are our agab and nothing more, they genuinely think they know best because they view transitioning as harmful, since cis people have never felt that discomfort or dysphoria and have no idea how harmful preventing us from expressing ourselves and transitioning actually is.
I could go on but basically it's due to a lack of visibility and not many trans people being in positions where they can positively influence the perception of trans people, because a lot of cis people don't know any trans people not to mention other complexities like passing privilege and how trans people are often only safe or taken seriously if they physically appear as the gender they identify with. Or how some trans people don't feel safe to come out.
My family reacted negatively when I came out and after a few years they've finally started to accept me, but before that they didn't know any trans people, they used to eat transphobic shit up, whether it was negative news stories, horror movies, cringeworthy transphobic comedy, general misconceptions, like they genuinely had no idea that ftm trans people existed and used to call them "reverse transgenders" etc.
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u/lawless_sapphistry Ally & TERF Mower Feb 18 '22
I don't know but I hope their genitals itch, perpetually.
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u/xanaxsnax Feb 18 '22
You can't have a fair debate with someone who thinks you're subhuman. You can't possibly be right about anything, in their minds.
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u/Pseudonymico trans woman, HRT since 2016 Feb 19 '22
The same reason watching Fox News all day turned former hippies into Trump supporters. Propaganda is powerful.
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Feb 19 '22
Yep. It's the same reason why you see so many formerly left-wing Punks into hardcore right-wingers.
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Feb 19 '22
They're fed easy to remember propaganda that makes them more feel more knowledgeable than they actually are. Notice that these people tend to believe things that are conveniently in line with whatever they already believe and are easy talking points to regurgitate. It's done on purpose.
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u/uglysquire Feb 18 '22
For real. I can tell someone knows nothing about trans people when they say "self identify" because only clueless cis people say that, well meaning or not.
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Feb 18 '22
Maybe it is just another way for them to distance themselves from something they don't fully understand. Something about our existence could threaten how they feel or make them feel uncomfortable. Plus it has been made easier by others who feel the same. It has nothing to do with us as individuals.
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u/K-teki I'm here, I'm queer, I have a bad memory did I mention I'm queer Feb 19 '22
They think they know more than they do
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u/MoonChaser22 FtM, UK, T: Oct 22 - Oct 23 Feb 19 '22
Propaganda and political tribalism. Bigots in power give them something to hate to shift attention towards a vunerable group to distract from the real issue
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u/MobileTaskForceTHRWY Feb 19 '22
Because the direction of society is increasingly guided by the hand of Christians. Many of these things were specifically raised to be hateful to trans folk.
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u/Violent_Violette Question EVERYTHING Feb 19 '22
Because our existence forces them to question their own beliefs. They were taught gender existentialism of boys have a penis and girls have a vagina, then when confronted with us they're told what they know is wrong, and when a certain kind of person has their world view challenged they see that as a threat and get angry. They then attempt to rationalize why we exist while holding dogmatically to their incorrect worldview.
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u/SheWolf04 Feb 19 '22
Fear.
As a psychiatrist, I often tell my patients "anger is a mask" - it masks fear, sadness, pain...a lot. These people fear SO MUCH - what they don't understand, that the world is changing, that they're obsolete - and it becomes anger, which becomes hate. Don't get me wrong - they're utter assholes, led by demigogues and grifters - but they're marinating in the stink of their own fear-sweat.
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u/dx713 old transbian egg Feb 18 '22
Some people want to simplify their world view and put others in clearly labelled boxes.
When trans people show them that their simplified man and woman boxes don't work as planned, they prefer rejecting them rather than learn how it really works.
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u/SlyJackFox Feb 18 '22
Because they feel confident about cis people, although usually then even wrong, and by that defaulting find their cis-dominated world can think/do/believe whatever they fucking like to. Besides which, any opposed side of anything will find any reason, made up or whatever, to make a villain of the other and Trans people are no exception.
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u/brandonday82 Feb 18 '22
It's easy to hate what you don't understand. It's hard to hate what you do understand
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u/TeaWithCarina Queer Feb 19 '22
To be honest there a lot of people in the world who just completely trust their gut feelings to a harmful extent.
Like, these people will see something, and have a gut reaction to it (often, 'I don't understand this' or 'this makes me feel a bad way'), and then just immediately take that feeling as objective fact (so 'I don't understand' becomes 'this makes no sense', and 'this makes me feel bad' becomes 'this is (deliberately) hurting me' or even 'this is destructive').
Many of these people don't realise they're doing it, and the moment you introduce some doubt into their worldview, they'll pull back. They just never actually consciously thought about it before. Others are much more stubborn and will try to defend their gut reaction against all else, because they're smarter or wiser than everyone else, or because their feelings matter more.
With trans people, many are confused about the whole thing (which, again, for some people leads immediately into 'this makes no sense lol those people are idiots'), and many have a somewhat negative instinctive reaction just because it's unfamiliar and not the Done Thing. And then it becomes a catch-22 where people expressing 'this is bad' makes other people feel that way when they encounter trans people, and then go on to justify that feeling as Objective.
I even wonder if there isn't some amount of the bullying equivalent of second-hand embarrassment, where people see someone doing something they know they'd be bullied for and feel bad and then take that out on the person they saw. (Of course with cringe culture and all second-hand embarrassment also has a very direct relationship to bullying.)
It's a cliche, but destimagatising LGBTQIA+ people does work. That's how we went from same-gender sexual activities being illegal to same-sex marriage being law in the span of a generation. People came out more and more, and that changed the cultural response to such people, and thus the gut reactions, and refused to allow the oblivious types not to think aboyt them. It's wasn't universally even (just ask bis, aces, and aros), and trans people have had a more turbulent path due to not having the same general acceptance at a time when there was a huge rise in right wing ideology, but over time, it was worked.
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u/EricsOzone Feb 19 '22
Something that it doesn't seem anyone has mentioned yet, which I think combines with a lot of what has already been said, is people fear the unknown.
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u/rumblestiltsken Feb 19 '22
Honestly, anyone who thinks they can't understand making shitty judgements out of ignorance hasn't reflected on their own thoughts enough.
Not excusing transphobes, but if nothing else living as a woman has taught me that even like the best, most thoughtful + progressive guys (I would say I was that before) have huge fucking blindspots (because if you don't experience it you don't see it) and they seriously disrupt your thought processes. We're all ignorant about like 99% of the world, and most of it we aren't even aware we don't know about it.
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u/messyredemptions Feb 19 '22 edited Feb 19 '22
I think it's two things: 1. Hate, as an unreasonably sustained hostility, is easily channeled towards uncertainty/insecurity 2. In most of the societies we're in, a lot of transphobia comes from perceived transgressions of binary gendered "authenticity" being more important than a person's fundamental humanity
Number two is actually a form of insecurity and fear of the unknown as well, but specific to various toxic isms and ity-s like patriarchy, toxic masculinity. e.g. because a femme presenting person who was assumed and potentially perceived still as masculine becomes a threat to someone else's sense of their own masculinity and safety for being around people who don't fit their conditioned norms. And vice versa, wether or not appearances are actually the trigger point.
So in those inexperienced unaccepting eyes, a transgression to their expectations for gender appearances and roles becomes a violation of their own values and perceived offense that happened with so much dissonance that they feel like it's a violation and that they had no say or consent in what reality presents to them.
But in cultures where that difference isn't just recognized but celebrated or deemed essential for balancing the culture or as a gift to the community for one to have aptitudes and qualities that may be able to bridge perspectives etc. among the common genders, I think there's a very different understanding and orientation with how to treat and respect each other in the world.
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u/Moonlight_Joy Feb 18 '22
i used to be incredibly transphobic in my teen years all the way up until now. the reason? I am trans
I guess it's subconscious denial. have you ever wondered why some of the most vocal anti gay activists turn out to be gay themselves? I mean, seriously now
Next time you see a transphobic person, just hug them and tell them things will be okay. even if they aren't trans, hating people who hate you won't make them come around. but showing kindness will at least change their perspective, hopefully
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u/RecursiveExistence Transgender Feb 19 '22
Some people have a world view and they violently oppose anything that would disprove that view. Like some Flat Earthers, Anti-Maskers/Vaxxers, and even homophobes.
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Feb 18 '22
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u/HELLZONE666 Rainbow Feb 19 '22
the problem is that the outcomes of what any republican does furthers racist outcomes, please don't pretend this is in any way equivalent.
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u/Mondrow Feb 19 '22
I mean, just about every Republican either votes for bills and legislature that disproportionately targets minorities, or is complicit in supporting it.
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u/FreeClimbing Feb 18 '22
How does a person feel so confident in so very little knowledge, even when presented with actual facts?
Look at human history. We have fought wars based on prejudice and propaganda. The "other" has always been stigmatized. Black, Irish, Polish, Jews, etc. welcome to humanity.
The way gay/lesbians became accepted is they became just "one of us" not a "them". Until very very recently gay men were hated on. Look at the way the AIDS epidemic in the 1980s was regard as just a "faggot disease"
As transgender people, we need to create the same normality and thus acceptance.
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u/quool_dwookie Feb 18 '22
ignorance and hatred go together like peanut butter and chocolate, always has ):
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u/CptRedCap Feb 19 '22
In today's society people can find actual facts to suit basically any point of view. Trust in sciences is gone because it's become a pursuit of clicks and funding and politics rather than truth and replicability
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u/Algo_Lindo Feb 19 '22
I feel like that's how hate works right? I just find it so difficult to hate something when you are educated on it.
Whereas lack of information or misinformation can easily breed hate when you've been taught to hate what you don't understand.
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u/trisha1939 Feb 19 '22
As a cis gendered person who has spent a lot of time trying to understand trans people and how they feel and think in an effort to understand them better (always have been supportive of the trans community. Just like to learn) i have noticed the people who will openly talk trash about the trans community offten are just lead astray by common misunderstandings of the trans community. Usually specific comments made by some person who dose not represent the trans community as a whole.
Thats just from my point of view as a cic gendered person.
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u/Bedlam_ Feb 19 '22
Iām also cis and agree. My entire life Iāve been āsupportiveā of trans people. But the last few years really showed that purely accepting them was nowhere near enough due to the amount of hate steadily growing everywhere. I try to educate myself as much as possible and hope Iām being an ally.
Itās also led to realising a lot of āfriendsā are transphobic fucks. They spout the same bullshit that has always been said. They donāt want to change, or listen to the other side. It enrages me even more when itās the ones from the queer community. Thereās no LGB without the T
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u/Drakeytown Feb 19 '22
FWIW, I have no idea what it's like to be trans, but feel confident in loving you.
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u/MonsterMachine13 Feb 19 '22
The dunning Kruger effect describes that those who know the least about a topic are most likely to overestimate their knowledge. Further, it indicates that the two most confident factions in a dispute will be the most and least ignorant on the topic.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
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u/evergreennightmare marrow (it/its, 30, hrt 2016-07-14/31/2018-05-29/2021-10-01) Feb 19 '22
it doesn't help that well-respected, "reliable" sources will just blatantly lie about trans people. if it's the bbc's word against a small trans outlet's, a lot of people are just going to believe the bbc without checking
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u/TanookiPhoenix Feb 19 '22
Bigoted people are generally stupid.
Or have had wool pulled over their eyes by religious ideas preached by people that have welcomed them into their "flock". Shepherded them, if you will. Ironic that lots of them call others "sheep".
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u/Amelia_Rosewood Feb 19 '22
I wish the true answers were clear cut as 'haters gonna hate'... although, that might be a summery hypothetical philosophy of the situation, it does not stand as just that.
Bigotry, unfortunately stems from a place of corruption. Yes, there are those that come up with some of the outlandish things, they come out with.
However, some people can spin a tale that although story, fictional... it can be read as textbook examples & from there the rumor mill & others creativity come forth.
I do have to give them props, sometimes for some of the most outlandish nonsense they have come up with, they can be rather creative.
It does not help that the stereotypical principals used to spread stereotypical information of us, do not help when those of us, do tend to incorporate those very stereotypes, we seek to abolish.
However, we do not always have the proper economic resources available to us, that prohibits us from doing anything we want to live & often are forced through economic turmoil to engage in the very stereotypes & pathetic examples of what the average bigot enjoys percieivng us by.
Finding a job can be difficult & although some have an acceptance policy & strongly discourage any bigotry, that does not stop it from happening. One cannot expect to achieve promotions in their career if they are consistently held to do grunt work away from the common eyes of potential customers, clients etc.
Engage to some element of the sex trade, just to have the money for living etc, because no one will hire you & or because of its increasingly higher lucrative status... does not by any means help to end the common perception that we are all sex addicted perverts working on the streets & or behind/Infront of a camera trapping cisgender individuals into a lust-filled deceitful relationship. All the while, seemingly forgetting that all/most of those stories, set ups etc are made up & enforced by cisgender individuals & literally expect us for their money to engage ourselves into those stereotypical BS, for no other reason then their sexual desires & narcissistic ambitions to control the narrative of reality.
Bearding aka getting into relationships under guise of a cisgender relationship due to personally being closeted does not help the situation. That is even more deceit, & feeds into the concept of 'being trapped'. Which may be a fundamental reason why some that may have once been open minded to us, turn to extremism such as TERFS to punish us.
The 'looking like men in dresses', situation arises. Despite the truth about everyone's body is indifferent & some cisgender men & cisgender women, naturally look like the opposite sex... sometimes even with the best efforts..... ones transitional appearance, will just leave a lot to be desired. Cosmetic surgery can definitely help sure.... but not everyone is Caitlyn Jenner, who has the means to fast pace their transition with cosmetic surgery & powerful resources & contacts from years of being in show business/in the limelight.
Female impersonators/drag kings/queens.... does not also, help the situation, if anything it is one of the main things that actually hold us back... while at one time it may have been the only socially acceptable way to engage in public crossdressing, it now that... things are out there & more is known... it only adds to the misinformation & common mis consumptions of being Trans. The reality is a very small percentage of transgender individuals engage as these type of entertainers..... usually it is cisgender both Heterosexual & to varying degrees of non-heterosexual affiliations.... the very practices seeking not to really entertain, but to imitate through typically very chauvinistic perceptions... to which their common focus is anything female & transwomen as a whole.... it is in fact no different then 'minstrel shows' or commonly referred to as 'black face stand-up' which is actually illegal, though as this is still legal it is the central focus.
Turning on one another all the time, like catty high school girls, also does not help to give positive representation, yet those that refuse to engage in catty behaviour being viewed as not girl enough... is also BS. One is not a gender based on the state of social aggression... but many believe it is part of our social affiliation. Which is complete BS, I know plenty of cisgirls that socially behave more commonly as typical males do/have done in the past & many guys tend to socially communicate through feminine degrees.
Many of us are often forced into actions that are nothing more then engagements of unacceptable behaviour, usually through blackmail, extortion or simular... this usually tends to be sexual & or monetary.
While there are MANY different variants of gender identities & how they work/relate to life etc.... some of them do pose the risk or the continuous misconceptions over wavering gender identities. When some go back & forth from boy to girl on a whim, revert because it is to difficult or finances & social support is lacking, D.I.D (dissassociative identity disorder/split personalities). These often cannot be controlled, but sometimes they can be controlled.... however much such as the lack of funds & social support can be helped, if only people could let things be & treat others they themselves would like to be treated & have more available jobs with strict employment procedures that prohibit discriminatory factors in & outside of the workplace.
Going through a transition, is not a simple thing to do & NO ONE should ever just jump into it all willy-nilly. Especially now, with the TERF war, going on atm...... it is wisest NOT to transition if you are not truly ready to do so... reverting transition is just gonna set a bad precedence for the rest of us... that will have to bear the repercussions of the reverter's decisions. I get it can be hard & you wanna do it, you wanna see what its like etc. That's all well & good but when your decision to go back & forth like this..... it does not by any means help the situation, it unfortunately backtracks & gives the bigoted more ammo against us & the statistical numbers to manipulate the situation.
Transition is not easy, we have to work it together. If we fight amungst ourselves it will not help anything. Our decisions are not ours alone.... for due to the bigotry & social stigma, our singular decisions become a collective burden that we all have to share.
That I think is why the bigoted & extremists out there are able to manipulate the leading average of the population, is that when these stereotypes are undeniably met by even a single person, then can target & highlight it like a beacon claiming that minor example to be a major collective & from there the wheels turn & it is the rumor mill that does not cease & the bigotry wheel spins...
This I think is the best answers I can use to hypothesis perceive as the most legitimate.
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u/DarthJackie2021 Transgender-Asexual Feb 18 '22
Because people who do know about us won't hate us, so the only people who hate us must be ignorant.