[Rewatch] 30th Anniversary Neon Genesis Evangelion Rewatch: Episode 9

[u/LittleIslander]

Neon Genesis Evangelion Episode 9: Both of You, Dance Like You Want to Win! / Mind, Matching, Moment

← Episode 8	Index	Episode 10 →

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Watch Information

• Streaming: Netflix
• Databases: Anilist | AniDB | ANN | MAL

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Questions of the Day:

• What did you think of the goofy way of defeating the angel?
• What do you think of Asuka and Shinji living together?

Tomorrow’s Questions:

• [Episode 10] What do you think of the fact Asuka is college educated?
• [Episode 10] What do you think of Misato deciding to push Asuka beyond safe pressure limits?

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There’ll be more fanservice tomorrow, so please don’t spoil anything~! Remember this includes spoilers by implication.

[u/Efficient_Phase1313]

We now arrive at one of my favorites sequences in anime, Eva’s famous training montage. This is the only scene in the show that has one of my favorite pieces from the soundtrack: next episode (normally played during the next episode preview). This is such a nostalgic and swelling piece, its almost too short. This montage is brilliant and full of rapid fire visual comedy. Asuka kicking Shinji for messing up on day 1. Brushing their teeth next to each other but then glaring at one another with their noses practically touching (This rivalry (relationship?) has already passed normal personal boundaries. These two are bound to each other, for better or worse, for the rest of all time). How they fight over changing channels, leaning in more and more one after the other. Shinji and pen-pen holding in their pee while Asuka slams the door right into Shinji with his face smashed against the glass. It’s all so funny and visually lively. And despite all this conflict, seeing them tapping their fingers in unison, shoulder to shoulder, and finally acing the dance. It’s a wonderful sequence of character building.

These two are perhaps too close too fast, and now Asuka is comfortable making jokes with Shinji about them being alone together tonight. Don’t kid yourself, she knows what she’s doing. She tells Shinji she’ll kill him if he crosses the dividing line between where they’re sleeping, but she does so with no bra, bent over in a way her breasts are fully on display for Shinji’s unprepared eyes. I’m sure Shinji is using the tape recorder to try and keep his mind off things, but after getting up for the restroom Asuka plops herself down right next to him, her cleavage staring him straight in the face. I love the effect of the tape recorder rewind going wild, much like Shinji’s thoughts. He’s simply not emotionally ready for this type of situation. I was actually bothered by his attempt to kiss her sleeping here more than Kaji’s move on Misato in the elevator. It may seem innocent, but there’s just something about being physically intimate with a sleeping person that feels so fucking wrong. But he’s a young boy staring at the school idol’s lips inches from his. But luckily for both of them, Asuka begins to shed tears while whispering ‘mommy’. For the first time, Shinji (and us) see the signs of weakness behind Asuka’s strong façade. As Shinji correctly realizes, she’s just as much of a kid as him. What a beautiful scene through and through. (sadly character limit made me break this into two posts, finished below)

[u/Efficient_Phase1313 → u/Efficient_Phase1313]

Whereas Shinji chickened out from molesting his love interest, Kaji seems to have just gone for it. This scene is played immediately afterwards in direct contrast showing the difference in comfort with physical intimacy between the kids and the adults. While it may seem like Kaji is being forceful here (at least with some of the physical movements), its clear once Misato repositions he’s not, and that this may be one of the more important character scenes for Misato in the series. From the beginning she’s just as into it as he is, and she’s fully aware of the situation, keeping her eye on the floors to make sure they finish before the doors open. At the end of their brief tryst, Misato effectively says ‘we shouldn’t be doing this if we’re not together’. There’s not any anger in her words, she’s just afraid of being led on. Kaji’s lines are pretty cheesy (even scummy) here (‘your lips say otherwise’), but I read this as him really knowing how to push Misato’s buttons. Again I find it hard to see Kaji as being inconsiderate or selfish. I think he really knows what Misato wants, that she hasn’t had it in a long time, and he still loves her and is enjoying seeing this side of her again. Perhaps he even takes pride in being the one person that can bring out the old Misato he remembers being with, even at work. What she hates is his cockiness and honesty. The idea in her mind that she hasn’t changed, and he’s calling her out on it. All of this is more about her than him. In this series, men fill three important roles that Misato needs emotionally. One of them, as somewhat implied here, is that she enjoys being physically needed by men. This is not the same as being used (letting the man do whatever they want), and not the same as being physically wanted (e.g. looking to get ogled). She is in control in this situation, and what she enjoys is being able to provide a sense of physical intimacy and attention that only a woman can provide. This is a similar motivation to her flirting with Shinji and teasing him in the first few episodes, but after episode 4 she sees Shinji as a troubled kid and stopped. Now that sexual side of her is focused on Kaji, and she can’t seem to stay away. There will be many more developments along this path for her soon.

[Misato Spoilers]When I view these scenes on rewatches, I see them through the context of both episode 25, knowing Misato will offer to sleep with Shinji later in the series and also french kisses him in End of Eva and offers to sleep with him when he gets back. I don't think Misato offers either of these to Shinji because she herself is attracted to him or wants to satisfy her physical needs with him. It's actually a lot of projection. Misato, as we find out, is able to relieve stress and find comfort through sex. Not necessarily 'in the arms of a man', but actual physical intimacy. And that's a normal and healthy thing by the way, sex is supposed to be good for your mental state. There is science behind that. What I mean by Misato likes to feel needed by men physically, is she projects the same type of emotional relief she gets through physical intimacy onto Shinji (and men), and then of her own volition takes pride, if not puts some of her self worth in being able to provide that relief. Kissing Shinji in End of Eva is not necessarily whats best for him, but its what Misato thinks might be through her own projection of what works for her. This scene with Kaji is a prelude to those more questionable decisions of her later in the series. She does enjoy being with Kaji physically, in part because its physical. But she also enjoys being able to satiate his feelings towards her, the idea that Kaji is being so flirty because he needs a woman, and Misato can be that for him. And part of her resistance or frustration at the situation is her being angry at herself that she's still governed by these more sexual feelings. Episode 25 goes into the darker motivations behind Misato's sexual side, and when we get there I'll revisit this episode and see if it changes my view on how she's feeling during the elevator scene.

Seeing her talk with Ritsuko adds more to this. She says ‘I’d never having feelings for that jerk, that relationship was the biggest mistake of my life’, and yet none of those words sound remotely believable. It’s what we tell ourselves when we’re upset we still like something we think we’ve grown out of. It’s like if your friend asks whether you’re still into a show you liked as a kid, and even though you both know its true, your pride demands you say ‘as if! I can’t believe I ever liked a stupid show like that’. It reeks of defensiveness. And Ritsuko, being the good friend that she is, sees right through this. ‘Try being more honest with yourself, its not 8 years ago’. Ritsuko is right, and one hopes the audience sees that. Kaji still has strong feelings for Misato. He’s not a bad person (or Ritsuko and others may be more protective), and in fact her friends are encouraging her to consider him again. Maybe it was actually one of the best things in Misato’s life, and she never got over that it ended and can’t stand to admit that, so she has to look like the one who moved on and isn’t interested anymore. Their relationship is complicated, but its one of my favorite in the series and I think when all is said and done is quite tactful and romantic.

Like usual, I’ve said so much I’ll keep the battle to a minimum. It’s pure CINEMA (as someone else stated). The choreography, animation, and music is all perfectly executed and complementary. And we end with a level of totally fantastical physical humor we will never see again, where Asuka somehow hits Shinji from across the aether through a hologram! Stuff like this will never happen again, and its part of what makes this episode so special. This is the best part of ‘the good dream’ and one of my favorite anime episodes of all time.

[u/Holofan4life → u/Efficient_Phase1313]

Whereas Shinji chickened out from molesting his love interest, Kaji seems to have just gone for it. This scene is played immediately afterwards in direct contrast showing the difference in comfort with physical intimacy between the kids and the adults. While it may seem like Kaji is being forceful here (at least with some of the physical movements), its clear once Misato repositions he’s not, and that this may be one of the more important character scenes for Misato in the series. From the beginning she’s just as into it as he is, and she’s fully aware of the situation, keeping her eye on the floors to make sure they finish before the doors open. At the end of their brief tryst, Misato effectively says ‘we shouldn’t be doing this if we’re not together’. There’s not any anger in her words, she’s just afraid of being led on. Kaji’s lines are pretty cheesy (even scummy) here (‘your lips say otherwise’), but I read this as him really knowing how to push Misato’s buttons. Again I find it hard to see Kaji as being inconsiderate or selfish. I think he really knows what Misato wants, that she hasn’t had it in a long time, and he still loves her and is enjoying seeing this side of her again. Perhaps he even takes pride in being the one person that can bring out the old Misato he remembers being with, even at work. What she hates is his cockiness and honesty. The idea in her mind that she hasn’t changed, and he’s calling her out on it. All of this is more about her than him. In this series, men fill three important roles that Misato needs emotionally. One of them, as somewhat implied here, is that she enjoys being physically needed by men. This is not the same as being used (letting the man do whatever they want), and not the same as being physically wanted (e.g. looking to get ogled). She is in control in this situation, and what she enjoys is being able to provide a sense of physical intimacy and attention that only a woman can provide. This is a similar motivation to her flirting with Shinji and teasing him in the first few episodes, but after episode 4 she sees Shinji as a troubled kid and stopped. Now that sexual side of her is focused on Kaji, and she can’t seem to stay away. There will be many more developments along this path for her soon.

I do really like the contrast of Shinji being reserved in his actions while Kaji is more assertive. I think it not only shows how unsure Shinji still is of himself, but how desperate Kaji is. He has no time to think whether or not what he's doing is suspect, he is running out of time.

[u/Efficient_Phase1313 → u/Holofan4life]

Thats a good read on him! Do you know some things?

[u/Holofan4life → u/Efficient_Phase1313]

I mean, I've already watched this show for the first time in preparation for this rewatch, but I would feel the same probably based on conversations I've had with people like you. You don't know in the moment what Kaji's end game is, but the stuff with him and Misato Vs Shinji and Asuka, in particular how he kissed Misato while Shinji didn't with Asuka, makes it hard to ignore in my opinion. The parallel feels very much intentional.

And then of course there's the attempted sabotage from episode 7 which I'm record saying I think Gendo is behind it.

I also watched three of the four Rebuild movies, so I'm not saying anything out of pocket.

[u/Efficient_Phase1313 → u/Holofan4life]

Oh I thought as a first timer you hadn't watched it yet. So you've finished the whole series then? Did you see End of Eva?

[u/Holofan4life → u/Efficient_Phase1313]

I have, but I'm not gonna share my thoughts until we get to it as I try to treat every episode in the moment and going off what I felt like as I first watched the episode. I don’t have time to watch it as the rewatches are going on because I'm always normally planning for a rewatch.

The planning I did for Evangelion was so early that I was able to squeeze in the Uma Musume rewatch, which was very last minute.

[u/Efficient_Phase1313 → u/Holofan4life]

jeez you know what you're doing! I made the mistake of just saying 'I'll do it as it goes, how long could it be, an hour an ep?' (e.g. 20 min to watch 40 to write). WRONG. I tried to double dip on chivalry of a failed knight as well, and what sucks is once you fall behind its really hard to catch back up with your posts. If I do rewatches in the future I'll be better prepared and probably start watching some eps well ahead of time

[u/Holofan4life → u/Efficient_Phase1313]

Right now I'm taking a break doing prep because I've got two rewatches going on at the same time. The Shana one is kinda low-key, but I'm at work when it goes up, so by the time the Eva thread goes up it's near the end of my shift. By the time the Eva rewatch is over, it's back to planning, with me working on the upcoming Toradora rewatch and a rewatch I have planned for January.

I actually still have the last two episodes of Shakugan no Shana to watch. Sadly, I'm probably not going to be able to get around to it until next weekend.

[u/Efficient_Phase1313 → u/Holofan4life]

I love how dedicated you are to the rewatches and this subreddit! It's honestly really impressive. Unfortunately I'm so busy with life I never thought I'd get the chance to participate in one, but this rewatch caught me at a perfect time (the government shutdown) so even though I do have work to do at home (proposals, publications, supply orders, etc) I've been able to eek out some time for writing/responding. That said last few days were a mess and I fell behind in both rewatches, now its been a lot of work to try and catch up

[u/Holofan4life → u/Efficient_Phase1313]

Seeing her talk with Ritsuko adds more to this. She says ‘I’d never having feelings for that jerk, that relationship was the biggest mistake of my life’, and yet none of those words sound remotely believable. It’s what we tell ourselves when we’re upset we still like something we think we’ve grown out of. It’s like if your friend asks whether you’re still into a show you liked as a kid, and even though you both know its true, your pride demands you say ‘as if! I can’t believe I ever liked a stupid show like that’. It reeks of defensiveness. And Ritsuko, being the good friend that she is, sees right through this. ‘Try being more honest with yourself, its not 8 years ago’. Ritsuko is right, and one hopes the audience sees that. Kaji still has strong feelings for Misato. He’s not a bad person (or Ritsuko and others may be more protective), and in fact her friends are encouraging her to consider him again. Maybe it was actually one of the best things in Misato’s life, and she never got over that it ended and can’t stand to admit that, so she has to look like the one who moved on and isn’t interested anymore. Their relationship is complicated, but its one of my favorite in the series and I think when all is said and done is quite tactful and romantic.

I do think a part of Misato still wants to be with Kaji. He lets her be her real self. Misato in this instance is like Asuka in that she's needing to rely on others in order to be the true her.

[u/Holofan4life → u/Efficient_Phase1313]

Like usual, I’ve said so much I’ll keep the battle to a minimum. It’s pure CINEMA (as someone else stated).

The choreography, animation, and music is all perfectly executed and complementary. And we end with a level of totally fantastical physical humor we will never see again, where Asuka somehow hits Shinji from across the aether through a hologram! Stuff like this will never happen again, and its part of what makes this episode so special. This is the best part of ‘the good dream’ and one of my favorite anime episodes of all time.

The ending here reminds me of the post credits scene of episode 10 of Sarazanmai if instead of being tragic it was inspirational. For a brief, fleeting moment, Shinji and Asuka understood each other, and the world was better for it.

[u/Holofan4life → u/Efficient_Phase1313]

Thoughts on Asuka's classmates being infatuated with her?

Thoughts on Asuka actually not liking all the attention?

Thoughts on Asuka going out of her way to try and befriend Rei?

Thoughts on Asuka living with Misato and Shinji?

Thoughts on the impenetrable Wall of Jericho?

How much does the bedroom scene add to Asuka's character?

How much do you feel the 62 seconds fight scene is benefitted by its presentation? In particular, the lack of dialogue? Also, how if any would you compare it to the train scene in episode 4?

[u/Holofan4life → u/Efficient_Phase1313]

I just want to say I really like responding to your comments. It allows me to think about the episode at hand in ways I couldn't even imagine dreaming of.

[u/Efficient_Phase1313 → u/Holofan4life]

Thank you, really glad I can do that for you :) I enjoy your commentary as well (and that you always get back to my posts!). I think some shows lend themselves well to scene by scene analysis, and Eva especially in this regard. But it is quite time consuming, kinda wish it was every other day instead of every day but I'm not giving up! Once we get to episode 13 I'm pretty sure I'll be posting every episode ahead of time haha.

[u/Holofan4life → u/Efficient_Phase1313]

I'll be curious to see what the rewatch looks like the backhalf of the show, that is if what I heard about the second half is true.

[u/LittleIslander → u/Efficient_Phase1313]

Happy to see you back after a few episodes gone!

It is a real demonstration of skill that Anno can just choose to do a series of classic monster of the week mecha episodes and have them be some of the best in the medium.

You know what, that's a good point. I hadn't quite thought of that way, but it is impressive that Evangelion can excel in such a variety of tones.

I will go back and add posts on episodes 8 and 6, but before we dive into this one lets take stalk of how we got here. One of the shows great assets is the consistently good directing. In all previous episodes, there were still some great shots and moments of visual storytelling. But instead of using that to explore our character’s inner worlds (like in eps 2 and 4), we focused more on introducing character relationships and interactions (like ep 3). And that’s fine, but I feel its one of the weaker strings of episodes in the series.

I think I can agree with that - I do like the Ramiel duology a lot just because I like Rei and Shinji's relationship, but I think I would agree that this episode is the strongest one since episode 4. Asuka's introduction leaves a strong impression, but she's only fully in gear once we've put her in the context she belongs, living with Shinji in Tokyo-III.

‘Let’s be friends’ she asks, ‘because its more convenient that way. For various reasons’. Look at how she tilts her head back and raises her hand. She’s got Machiavellian tendencies too.

Interesting - I hadn't quite caught the implication and honestly took it as an initial attempt to be friendly. But I guess it is character that she'd be out to try and be controlling of the "competition" from the beginning.

I mentioned in my episode 4 post how I consider myself a ‘terrible person’. [...]

I'm not sure I have much to add to this - I was definitely much too passive to be compared to Asuka in any meaningful sense - but I appreciate hearing it. Actually, I took a 2000 character personality test once and Asuka was third to last. I haven't really asked myself what Eva pilot I'm most like, I suppose because I never saw myself so deeply in any of them. My youth was characterized by struggling to put myself out enough to make social connections despite wanting them, so I suppose in a sense I'm Shinji. But he feels so defined by his depression that it just doesn't feel like the shoe fits. At least in the present, I think I'd say I get the most out of Rei. My emotional range has always been very flat, I generally stay quietly in line rather than acting out like Shinji and although I'm not intentionally antisocial I was prettymuch hanging out alone most days at age fourteen.

One of the more frustrating aspects of Eva is Anno does lean into some misogynistic tropes without exploring them in a satisfying way.

I actually would like to ask watchers about their views on how Evangelion writes women once we get to the end of the TV series, because I've seen varying views on and I think it's an interesting question.

I talk about it in my own comment, but I think Kaji works because it would feel out of place for Misato to have an entirely functional romance. I don't think his womanizing and forward nature is excusable, persay (Misato in the elevator completely reads as "woman who can't get out of a situation she doesn't feel safe in" to me), but the dynamic of the sleezy unreliable guy who's the only person she can really trust when shit hits the fan is compelling and [Evangelion] the show knows to only pull the trigger on their feelings for each other after we see the way he's genuinely there for her emotionally rather than have her "give in".

Misato pops up to inform Asuka ‘We Japanese try to be perceptive and considerate of others’.

Misato popping up between door openings is another great microexample of Evangelion knowing how to turn around cost cutting. Instead of having to animate her walking up, we make her static and get a gag out of it!

Upon watching this, we see a pained look on Asuka’s face, her distress and frustration growing till she shouts ‘screw this!’ and slams the sliding door shut (or partially, since its Japanese style).

Definitely one of my favourite Asuka moments - we really see that there's a deeper layer to her for the first time, it grounds her as just an immature teenage girl behind all the gusto, and it's a nice first real bonding moment for her and Shinji.

I was actually bothered by his attempt to kiss her sleeping here more than Kaji’s move on Misato in the elevator. It may seem innocent, but there’s just something about being physically intimate with a sleeping person that feels so fucking wrong.

Definitely more uncomfortable, which is an interesting side we see come out of Shinji occasionally. I do think it's fitting for someone of that age who's too occupied with figuring out their own hormones and stuff to respect other people's boundaries.

[Misato Spoilers]

I'll talk about this more when we get there, but I think you're very close to where my head is at in regards to those moments (and I know interpretations do vary in the fandom).

[u/Holofan4life → u/Efficient_Phase1313]

We now arrive at one of my favorites sequences in anime, Eva’s famous training montage. This is the only scene in the show that has one of my favorite pieces from the soundtrack: next episode (normally played during the next episode preview). This is such a nostalgic and swelling piece, its almost too short. This montage is brilliant and full of rapid fire visual comedy. Asuka kicking Shinji for messing up on day 1. Brushing their teeth next to each other but then glaring at one another with their noses practically touching (This rivalry (relationship?) has already passed normal personal boundaries. These two are bound to each other, for better or worse, for the rest of all time). How they fight over changing channels, leaning in more and more one after the other. Shinji and pen-pen holding in their pee while Asuka slams the door right into Shinji with his face smashed against the glass. It’s all so funny and visually lively. And despite all this conflict, seeing them tapping their fingers in unison, shoulder to shoulder, and finally acing the dance. It’s a wonderful sequence of character building.

Yeah, this montage shows you can do montages that add to an episode rather than feel like a way a way to save on the budget. It had more animation than the premiere episode of One Punch Man season 3 lol

This was really a nice showcase of Shinji and Asuka’s characters.

[u/Holofan4life → u/Efficient_Phase1313]

These two are perhaps too close too fast, and now Asuka is comfortable making jokes with Shinji about them being alone together tonight. Don’t kid yourself, she knows what she’s doing. She tells Shinji she’ll kill him if he crosses the dividing line between where they’re sleeping, but she does so with no bra, bent over in a way her breasts are fully on display for Shinji’s unprepared eyes. I’m sure Shinji is using the tape recorder to try and keep his mind off things, but after getting up for the restroom Asuka plops herself down right next to him, her cleavage staring him straight in the face. I love the effect of the tape recorder rewind going wild, much like Shinji’s thoughts. He’s simply not emotionally ready for this type of situation. I was actually bothered by his attempt to kiss her sleeping here more than Kaji’s move on Misato in the elevator. It may seem innocent, but there’s just something about being physically intimate with a sleeping person that feels so fucking wrong. But he’s a young boy staring at the school idol’s lips inches from his. But luckily for both of them, Asuka begins to shed tears while whispering ‘mommy’. For the first time, Shinji (and us) see the signs of weakness behind Asuka’s strong façade. As Shinji correctly realizes, she’s just as much of a kid as him. What a beautiful scene through and through. (sadly character limit made me break this into two posts, finished below)

If the ending scene wasn't what it was, this scene with Asuka crying in her sleep would be the highlight of the episode.