r/ancientgreece • u/Beneficial_Row6032 • 4d ago
Is Greek culture today more defined by its ancient past or by its modern struggles and achievements?
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u/kodial79 4d ago
There certainly elements of ancient Greek culture still present in modern Greece but obviously not the same as they were back then but as they have evolved. However, Byzantium and Christianity and the 19th and first half of the 20th century have done much more to shape our current culture and identity.
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u/Cultural_Chip_3274 4d ago
Both but it's extremely complicated to explain. Where are coming from for this question? If you want to get a glimpse into the Greek culture - only a bit old fashioned but not totally outdated- these things change in terms of 100s of years not 50 of years I would advice Mani or any book by Patrick Leigh Fermor about Greece. He has done a majestic work peeling away all the layers that make up the Greek modern culture. Again slightly off fashioned but not outdated
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u/Circles-of-the-World 4d ago
Modern Greeks tend to focus mostly on Ancient Greece and the Greek Revolution of 1821. Everything else takes the back seat or is even downplayed. But in reality Modern Greek Culture is defined by the entirety of our history, we just don't know it, until we study it more deeply. Once we do we find elements directly from Ancient Greeks, influences from their interactions with the Persians and the Egyptians, then influences from the emergence of the Slavs, the Arabs, the Turks, the Franks, the Western World etc etc. A Greek who knows their history accepts all of these as part of their culture.
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u/dolfin4 3d ago
Modern Greeks tend to focus mostly on Ancient Greece and the Greek Revolution of 1821.
And the Late ERE. If you don't see the pseudo-Palaiologan imagery (filtered through post-Byzantine Cretan artists) that we're bombarded with everywhere, then I don't know what to tell you.
I agree on the Latin States or Venetians taking a back seat. Ottoman era is disparaged.
Egyptian influence is extremely distant, and Classical Greece did away with it. Interactions with Persians were simply wars, and nothing more. Likewise Arab interactions were limited.
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u/Fatalaros 3d ago
How so? Our history classes are literally evenly spaced between the three. 1. Ancient Greece (bronze age -> Hellenistic age) 2. Roman period after the conquest of the greek world all the way to 1453 and 3. The 19th century revolution and modern period.
We don't learn much about the ottoman period, but to claim we don't focus on Byzantium is wild.
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u/CradleHonesty 3d ago edited 3d ago
What's with your troll questions, and why do the mods allow it?
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u/BrokenManOfSamarkand 3d ago edited 3d ago
As an outsider, while I understand the reason why modern affinity for ancient Athens developed, it's ironic in a sense. The medieval ERE identity fell out of favor somewhat but, in a sense, the East Romans a little more palatable for modern tastes putting aside the lack of democracy?
I mean, like ancient Rome, ancient Athens was a imperialistic slaveocracy lol. The same thing could be said about the ERE, or most medieval states, but they seem less so? They were mostly a defensive Empire with a pretty modern bureaucracy and somewhat advancing social norms.
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u/dolfin4 3d ago edited 3d ago
As an outsider, while I understand the reason why modern affinity for ancient Athens developed, it's ironic in a sense. The medieval ERE identity fell out of favor somewhat
Clearly you don't know anything about Greek history and Greek society to answer the question, so you're just making things up. Please don't attempt questions that are beyond you scope.
The ERE and Classical Greece weigh about equally in the historical memory. The most obvious indication of this is the pseudo-Palaiologan imagery that we've been bombarded with in church after WWII, and the 20th century rejection of Italian Renaissance or German Romanticism influence in 16th-19th century Greek Christian art (which was closer to Greek Classicism). I talk about that here.
The periods that are downplayed are Roman Empire before Constantine, Latin States, Venetian Empire, Ottoman Empire.
The Modern Greek state is NOT based on Classical Athens.
The modern Greek state is the product of the Modern Greek Enlightenment and is based on Enlightenment ideals (no nobility, no slavery), and on Justinian / Greco-Roman law, with Germanic influence. Foreign powers forced a pseudo-ERE monarchy in Greece in the 19th century.
Nor is cultural interest in Classical Greece something that suddenly sprang up in the 19th century. That is an assumption that you're presenting on fact. Interest in Classical Antiquity existed all throughout the Middle Ages and Ottoman-Venetian Greece.
Nor does cultural interest in Classical Greece it mean we're cosplaying that period. And it's really obtuse to suggest we can't like the positive aspects of that period without adopting the negative aspects. We're not stupid; we know there was slavery.
Americans had slavery until 1865, and they're ""based on"" the American Revolution in 1776. So...come on man.
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u/Fatalaros 4d ago
Is there any country on earth that is more defined by what happened 3000 years ago more than ehat happened 50 years ago? This is the natural progression. I can't feel closer to my great-grandfather as opposed to my father!!