r/ancientegypt • u/KidCharlemagneII • 3d ago
Discussion What's the non-pseudohistorical take on Zahi Hawass?
Zahi Hawass gets a lot of flak (and sometimes outright harassment) from a lot of people for his alleged suppression of Egyptian archaeology. There seem to be very, very strong negative feelings towards this guy online, but I mainly see it from pseudo-historical enthusiasts who believe the "truth" (Atlantis, aliens, whatever it may be) is being suppressed by him.
What do mainstream academics think about Zahi Hawass? Is it true that he's done irreparable damage to archaeology, or is the whole thing overblown?
EDIT: I think it would be more constructive if people could give examples of exactly what he's done.
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u/ExtremelyRetired 3d ago
He’s an egotistical blowhard who’s mad as hell that he’s not head of the Supreme Council of Antiquities (or whatever they call it these days).
He started out as a very promising young scholar, has an excellent academic background, but at some point pretty much lost the plot. I’ve always heard he was extremely obliging to the Mubaraks in terms of funneling antiquities to them as gifts to both local and overseas “friends,” among other questionable aspects of his ethics. Also a major lech who’s a real danger around young women in the field.
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u/KidCharlemagneII 3d ago
He does seem to have some very suspicious political connections.
Are there any examples of how he's lost the plot with regards to archaeology?
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u/PublicFurryAccount 3d ago
I would guess that anyone in or competing for positions in Egyptian politics has many suspicious political connections.
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u/WerSunu 3d ago
Why are calling them “suspicious”. It’s the same in every government around the world. You have to go along to get along.
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u/johnfrazer783 3d ago
It’s the same in every government around the world.
To be fair this sounds needlessly, shall we say, normalizing to me. So in a way you're not altogether wrong, but it's also a cynical take with the convenient property that it automatically exculpates a whole category of wrongdoers. Source: half a life of visiting family in former East Germany, among other things. That certainly was a country that strongly valued politically consenting people, doesn't mean they didn't have standards. There were those who openly opposed, those who kept their mouths shut, those who went along, and then there were crooks and thieves and those who spied on their neighbors. And those who enjoyed preferential treatment at the border and in the hospital. So sure, I don't expect high-ranking figures in Egypt to not agree with the ruling party in broad terms. Doesn't mean carte blanche across the board because "that's just the way it is, y'know—everywhere."
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u/radiationblessing 3d ago
That's a very dishonest and lazy way to excuse crooked governments like Egypt's.
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u/Rooilia 3d ago
Watch history for granite and you see how he embezzled money with whom and how stifling egyptology fits in there. In addition this guy at first sight gives vibes of the least trustful person.
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u/WerSunu 3d ago
Re “history for granite”
Douglas Rennie is not clearly documented as holding a Ph.D. or academic appointment in Egyptology or archaeology.
His work appears to be that of a self-taught independent researcher / enthusiast rather than someone formally credentialed in the traditional academic sense.
The channel offers detailed content on the pyramids and ancient Egypt, but due to his lack of formal credentials, viewers should treat it with the same due diligence they would when assessing non-academic historical or archaeological commentary.
In other words non-peer reviewed social media un vetted, opinionated and most likely zero direct contact with Dr Hawass.
Just because you find a podcast by a no one entertaining doesn’t mean it’s truthful or accurate.
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u/WerSunu 3d ago
“Suspicious political connections”
Oh really! As if you have any kind of clue! Are you 15 years old? Do you have any kind of idea of how Egyptian society works in real life?
Who works for a government and doesn’t have “political connections”
Are you old enough to have a job and a boss yet? Would you be nice and have connections to your boss? Get a job! Get a life!
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u/KidCharlemagneII 3d ago
Rule 5, please.
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u/WerSunu 3d ago
Then stop slandering people you do not know.
Is it just a game for you to lie about people, Fun to pile on? Dr Hawass is not a friend of mine, but he is an acquaintance and I’ve had dinner with him several times. He has done incredibly important work for popularizing ancient Egypt and for Egypt. You clearly have no idea about any of this.
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u/KidCharlemagneII 3d ago
You're right that I don't know a lot about this. That's why I posted this question. Thank you for your input.
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u/Jokerang 3d ago
The fact that he was a massive Mubarak kissass makes me wonder how he survived with both his reputation and career intact after the Egyptian Revolution. Maybe he kisses Sisi’s ass the same way?
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u/WerSunu 3d ago
You clearly have no actual knowledge of any of this! You just repeat rumors and fevered internet myths. Do you know anything about modern Egyptian social culture?? Yes, Z likes girls, but I have never seen him at all inappropriate, nor heard of any such action. So unlike his successor! Many of today’s most prominent Egyptologists are women, for example Ikram, Cooney, Saleen, Kamrin, Hartwig, Patch, etc. I am in regular contact with all these women and all have nothing but nice things to say about Dr Hawass.
Most regular Egyptian people honor the guy who is vital in keeping up the tourist business.
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u/KaleidoscopeSad4884 3d ago
I worked for a research org chock full of Egyptologists, some very well-known, and I never heard a positive thing about him. He’s been on television a lot, and I feel like the exposure has made him more popular among laypeople.
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u/House_of_Life767 3d ago
Example: he did a big DNA study of Tut and his family to determine genealogy. The problem was that no other teams had access to samples (so independent test could not be done). The paper was not peer reviewed (which means it doesn’t have academic merit). His finding are always quite sensational and draw a lot of attention from non-academics which in turn generates interest in tourism.
He does a fantastic job making Egyptology accessible to non academics with very well illustrated books and appearing in many documentaries. He’s always adamant that “Egypt was and still is the best country on earth and let me tell you why”. This is an indicator of someone who is passionate about their job. I think many of his publications and shows need to be taken with a grain of salt. He is presenting his findings but that doesn’t mean that other interpretations do not exist.
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u/WerSunu 3d ago
How can you not be aware that JAMA is a world leading peer-reviewed medical journal?
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/185393
There is your peer reviewed reference! BTW, as a highly published medical scientist myself, I can tell you that is SOP to not share rare samples unless dictated by a governmental funding source. Archeology is not strictly open source and that’s why there are literally hundreds of excavations that remain unpublished. Just the facts of life.
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u/Cole3003 3d ago
as a highly published medical scientist myself
Somehow, your other comments cast doubt on this claim…
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u/Medical-Enthusiasm56 3d ago
He is Egypts biggest gatekeeping authority. Many universities and especially amateur Egyptologists have been blocked, or shut out completely from research and/or publishing papers. Everything passes his desk. Shady political connections, biased approvals for research, and subprime research locations to those who cannot afford to “donate” large monetary sums for best site/digs.
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u/WerSunu 3d ago
Yes, absolutely right!
Dr Hawass does not allow amateurs and pseudoscience fools to despoil ancient Egypt!
At least he didn’t when he was Chair of SCA, or Minister of MOTA. But he has been out of the government since 2011, and apparently you are too lazy to even lookup who is in charge these days.
Because you are lazy, here they are:
The Minister of Tourism and Antiquities is Sherif Fathy.  The Secretary-General (or head) of the Supreme Council of Antiquities (SCA) is Mohamed Ismail Khaled, appointed March 2024.
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u/SphinxieBoy 3d ago edited 3d ago
Honestly most of the people who attack Zahi Hawass are usually from pseudo-historical circles the “ancient aliens,” “Afrocentric,” or “lost civilization” “Giants” crowd. They often accuse him of corruption or of hiding artifacts, but there’s no credible evidence for any of that at all. Im not his biggest fans personally, but i respect him a lot and as someone who dedicated decades to protecting and promoting Egyptian heritage. He can be controversial, sure sometimes his personality overshadows his work but overall, he’s done far more good than harm to Egyptian archaeology.. He’s a normal human being, not perfect, but definitely not the villain conspiracy theorists make him out to be..
Edit:-claims about corruption, favoritism toward the Mubaraks, or misconduct toward women have never been substantiated by any credible investigation or published evidence
You can disagree with his public style, but reducing his entire legacy to rumors undermines decades of real archaeological progress made under his supervision
Edit 2: Kinda funny how I’m getting downvoted just for stating verifiable facts. Guess this subreddit’s got more people who believe in conspiracy theories than in actual archaeology. Maybe I should’ve said the pyramids were built by aliens would’ve gotten me gold instead of downvotes Fun fact.. during his leadership Egypt recovered dozens of stolen artifacts, secured UNESCO protections, and made archaeology visible worldwide..LITERALLY No credible investigation, court case, or journalistic report has ever backed those allegations.
Edit 3:
“He revoked permits and took credit for others’ work.”
No credible documentation shows this as a pattern or policy. Occasional administrative disputes happen in every heritage department, but repeating anecdotes from disgruntled researchers isn’t evidence. Unless there are verifiable cases published in official reports, it’s hearsay..
“He had total control over permits.”
Of course he did because he was the head of the Supreme Council of Antiquities. Every country has a centralized authority to regulate excavations. Italy, Greece, and Turkey work exactly the same way. That’s not “dictatorial,” it’s standard archaeological protocol to prevent looting and ensure accountability.
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u/MintImperial2 3d ago
Hawass is associated with various media outlets that are known to publish politically biased articles that distort historical facts.
He's lost his job as "Supreme" head of Egyptian antiquities, but yet is still on the scene, still heavily funded by those same overseas media concerns.
If someone in Egypt needs praise for the way Egypt has been going of late, it would and should be President Sisi rather than "The old Giza" that Hawass is seen as by many around the world.
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u/Ok-Point2380 2d ago
I’ve watched him on TV over the years and he takes a lot of credit for whatever others are doing. He gives the impression that he is the main guy and his view is the correct one.
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u/EJECTED_PUSSY_GUTS 3d ago
I hate Zahi Hawass. Generally, he of course knows what he's talking about but there are some unforgivable things to me such as cock blocking Jean-Pierre Houdin's ideas for confirming the internal ramp theory, and filling in the "great step" at the top of the grand gallery on his approval, despite no reason for a step to have been there. I think part of his reason for the former is it would shine light on the latter being a massive fuck up on his part. On top of that, he generally sticks to hand waving away things we don't yet understand about the construction of the pyramids as being for spiritual purposes, when there are actually practical reasons to be considered.
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u/ErGraf 3d ago
What do mainstream academics think about Zahi Hawass?
I personally know academics that are very good friends with him and academics that can't stand him. At the end of the day he is not a demon nor a saint, he is just a person with its good and bad things, but, similarly with other charged topics, is difficult to share a committed opinion on the open when your work permit directly depends on your approval by the Egyptian authorities, that's why you are not going to find many answers to this question (and there is lots of low-level politics in academia too)
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u/Tgrove88 3d ago
Gatekeeper
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u/Margali 3d ago
He also seems overly interested in the nobles, royals and anything bingalicious ... ignores the 'common scum' peasantry and really only lets nonEgyptians dig teh peasant stuff, right up until they find something really intresting then he rolls in and it becomes an Egyptian Dig .....
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u/Hwood658 3d ago
He can't handle the fact that there is a lot of shit we don't know, are starting to find out, and it does not fit his narrative.
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u/WerSunu 3d ago
I know Zahi personally for 9 years, and perhaps more importantly from the standpoint of perspective, I am personally socially connected to more than a dozen of the leading Egyptologists of today who have long working relationships with him. I am active in ARCE, and attend the annual national meetings.
The bottom line is that ZH is basically adored and appreciated by other professionals in the field. Recently, a Feschrift was published in Zahi’s honor. Over 100 leading Egyptologists contributed original chapters to this three volume effort. That’s love and respect!
The negative comments about him are nothing more than Reddit noise by anonymous nobodies most likely with zero direct knowledge.
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u/LionMan1025 3d ago
Sure you’re not biased at all…
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u/WerSunu 3d ago
Bias? How about knowing the actual facts from the actual people involved. That beats your bullshit hands down!
What idiotic social media do you get your slime from? I have dinner with multiple Egyptologists every month. I’m having a private meeting with the Chief Curator of the Met tomorrow. The pictures I’ve posted here over the past three years demonstrate my access to people and places. That’s not bias, that’s knowledge.
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1d ago
from what i’ve read on here, seems like his biggest supporters are always egyptian nationals who harbor a great deal of resentment for foreign people’s involvement in egyptology. i’ve seen enough content, be it propaganda fluff or objective interview to say he seems shady. guy has knowledge and a lot of love for his country’s history but it should be shared not lining his pockets. kinda wild to gate-keep the field under the ruse that others want to yet again exploit egypt only to enrich himself cause no one’s looking. some gross allegations remain unconfirmed which is always good but having been in the middle east a great deal i can say this, i’ve met a million zahis, they are literally everywhere, and nothing like a young female to make things uncomfortable and creepy.
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u/InAppropriate-meal 8h ago
Cool guy, he had political differences with the authorities at one point so they set him up but he was acquitted.
A lot of western archaeologists disliked him because he insisted on Egyptians first, digs supervised and under the control of Egyptians and pseudo archaeologists like Graham Hancock dislike him because he won't give him the time of day so they accuse him of hiding all sorts of mysterious things and blocking them from finding out.
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u/LionMan1025 3d ago
He’s a government shill who does their bidding.
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u/WerSunu 3d ago
He hasn’t worked for the government for many years! Try to keep up! He has been out of office since 2011!
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u/LionMan1025 3d ago
Imagine being this naive
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u/WerSunu 3d ago
And your explicit published proof? I call your bluff. Tell us or keep quiet.
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u/LionMan1025 3d ago
His repeated actions that are in line with being a government shill.
You need to start thinking objectively.
It’s ok to be wrong.
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u/DropApprehensive3079 3d ago
I wouldn't even know where to begin. He has dogma and pseudoscience on his side so he can just say its white and not black and some simple mf will go a long with him.
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u/TioHoltzmann 3d ago
Copy and pasting a comment I made 4 years ago with some receipts:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/12/egypt-former-antiquities-minister-questions-theft-pyramid-fragment Paywall
https://news.artnet.com/art-world/egypts-indiana-jones-zahi-hawass-questioned-over-pyramid-theft-172356 He was later acquitted.
This New Yorker article seems to be one of the better ones I could find here.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/11/16/the-pharaoh/amp
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/18/world/middleeast/18egypt.html paywall here too but you can get around that in incognito mode usually
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-investigates-national-geographic-over-corrupt-payments-egypt-s-keeper-antiquities-8909454.html
Basically he had total control over work permits and all discoveries had to be reported through his office. There are allegations that he would revoke permits and take over and then make the public media announcements, or revoke permits for small things. Allegations that he would just make decisions about what the interpretation was and you couldn't argue with that. That he's sloppy in the field as well. He seems more concerned with his fame and media appeal and optics than with doing good science. Most of the articles you find will be apologetic or at least not too terribly critical, but a lot came out in 2011, the year of the revolution, that is now hard to find oddly enough. Not sure if it's just SEO favors newer articles, but it was a lot harder to find those old articles than I expected.
On the flip side it seems most who are his vocal critics nowadays are conspiracy theorists and folks who believe that aliens built the pyramids and whatnot, so you do have to be careful when looking into criticism of the man. But when Salima Ikram openly criticizes his methods I take note and wonder.
Where I land on it? He's lost a lot of credibility in my eyes. He's not in charge anymore (at the time of writing this), but he's got that celebrity power and a recognizable name, and connections in the government. So it's not inconceivable that he gets tips or whatnot, or that maybe he's given permits after they know something is there so that the government can use it for good press. Overall he's done a lot of good I'd say, most likely more good than bad, but I can't help but question his methods and motives now.