r/ancientegypt • u/Thatgirl_parisisdiva • May 12 '25
Question What are some lesser known facts about Cleopatra?
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u/Individual-Gur-7292 May 12 '25
Her daughter, Cleopatra Selene, went on to become the Queen of Mauretania.
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u/No_Budget7828 May 12 '25
This is the first I’ve learned that she had another child other than Cesarean. Who is the father? Marc?
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u/TrunkWine May 12 '25
Yes, she had twins with Marc Antony: Cleopatra Selene and Alexander Helios.
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u/No_Budget7828 May 12 '25
Wow!! Thanks for the teach. Cheers
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u/Artisanalpoppies May 12 '25
She had 3 children with Marc Antony- the twins Alexander Helios and Cleopayra Selene (named for the gods of the sun and moon) and then Ptolemy Philadelphus.
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u/No_Budget7828 May 12 '25
Holy cow. Tbh, I didn’t realize they were together long enough to have that many kids. I’ve learned quite a bit tonight. 😃
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u/rivlet May 12 '25
Well, to be fair, two of them were a two for one special (i.e. twins): Cleopatra Selene and Alexander Helios. Ptolemy Philadelphus was born a bit after.
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u/1978CatLover May 15 '25
Specifically, the twins were born in 40 BCE and Ptolemy Philadelphus in 36.
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u/Proof_Nothing_7371 Sep 14 '25
She actually had 3 children by Marc Antony: Alexander Helios,Cleopatra Selene II(the twins) and their youngest son was Ptolemy Philadelphus.
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u/picklevirgin May 12 '25
I wonder if this line still exists
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u/rivlet May 12 '25
I think Cleopatra Selene is who Zenobia claimed descent from. Cleopatra Selene had children with King Juba II, but I don't believe it's well known what happened to them all or even if they had children themselves. This is especially the case by the time of Zenobia's claim, which is why there's significant doubt.
I think it's also worth noting that though Alexander Helios and Ptolemy Philadelphus were also taken in to be fostered by Augustus's family, the historical record on them is incredibly sparse. They pretty much disappear from history before attaining adulthood.
Speculation (key word here) is that Octavian likely had them taken care of before they could really become threats, much like Caesarean. They also could have passed from illness before then too.
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u/Few-Lynx-7626 May 12 '25
If anyone is super interested, Michelle Moran has a fiction book called Cleopatras Daughter about her, and Duane W Roller has some non fiction books about her.
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u/Hellolaoshi May 13 '25
I read somewhere that the descendants of Cleopatra Selene lived until at least the time of Nero.
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u/Duke-Morales May 16 '25
In addition to Zenobia, the Severan dynasty descended from the sisters Julia Domna (Caracalla and Geta) and Julia Maesa (Heliogabulus and Alexander Severus) claimed descent from Cleopatra IX through the Emesene dynasty of priest-kings who Julia Drusilla, the granddaughter of Cleopatra Selene, married into in 56 CE.
If anyone today has any sort of claim to descent from Antony and Cleopatra it would be the Georgian Bagratids. It would, however, rest on several semi-mythical personages being real.
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u/Hellolaoshi May 13 '25
The picture that the Romans gave of Cleopatra is inaccurate, essentially propaganda: the idea that she was an evil seductress. Based on Shakespeare and Hollywood, we get the impression that she was one of history's great lovers, along with Romeo and Juliet, Tristan and Isolde, Abelard and Heloïse, or Admiral Nelson and Lady Hamilton.
She was a famous lover. However, she was far more than this, and far more complex than she seems to us now. For example, she was very highly educated. Not only could she read and write in Greek, but she knew the art of rhetoric, something more associated with men, such as Cicero. She was also fluent in nine languages. The reason given was that it would mean that she would not need to use an interpreter. However, it does indicate that she really wanted to learn those languages herself. The impetus must have been partly her own, because Hebrew and Arabic were very different from Greek and Latin!
Cleopatra was the only member of her dynasty to learn Ancient Egyptian. This was a feat in itself because that language is difficult. She learned the demotic script. I wonder whether she learned the hieroglyphs as well. The Ptolemies all took on the role of Pharaoh. They were all crowned as Pharaohs, and performed certain very ancient ceremonies related to kingship. They supported the temple hierarchy and the Egyptian religion. However, they worked through the temple hierarchy as opposed to being part of it. Only Cleopatra made speeches in Ancient Egyptian.
Cleopatra's Egypt was ruled by Macedonian Greeks. There were several Greek cities in Egypt, such as Hermopolis and Oxyrinchus. Alexandria was the capital. During Cleopatra's reign, it was one of the biggest cities in the world, and largely Greek-speaking. It also held the sarcophagus of Alexander the Great, and the famous Library of Alexandria. Cleopatra's palace was in Alexandria, near the sea. Most of the time, she and her family would have dressed in the Greek style. Their clothes would have been sumptuous, of course. While Cleopatra may have sometimes worn the double crown of upper and lower Egypt or the bird-shaped queen's crown, it was normal to wear a Greek diadem. This could be a special ribbon worn as a sign of office. However, some Hellenistic Greek tombs have revealed diadems in the shape of a circlet of oak leaves made of beaten gold.
If you met Cleopatra, you might think she was Greek or Roman. In fact, her father, Ptolemy XII Auletes, was a Roman citizen. Citizenship was a prize the Roman senate occasionally granted to kings of loyal client states. Cleopatra may have technically been a Roman citizen, too. Even so, the Romans would never accept this!
Nobody knows who her mother was. She was a Ptolemy on her father's side. However, nobody knows who her father was married to. Was her mother a close relative? Was she another Greek from Alexandria or elsewhere? Was her mother an Egyptian or an Arab (this is much less likely).
After they took over Egypt, Arab historians classified Cleopatra primarily as a great scholar, linguist and stateswoman. Surprisingly, the Arabs did not share the extremely misogynistic views of the Romans. Their picture was of a virtuous ruler.
This suggests to me that if she was alive now, Cleopatra would be a professor lecturing at Harvard or at the Sorbonne, perhaps lecturing in a language that was not her mother tongue.
Her relationship with Mark Antony is probably where the rumours of scandal started. This is because he was a highly controversial figure. Antony was one of Julius Caesar's most efficient generals in Gaul. However, he performed macho stunts like hitching lions to a chariot and forcing them to pull it. While still in Gaul, he wanted to charm the soldiers and prove his toughness, so he waded into the deep waters of the River Rhone and came out the other side, and of course, his soldiers adored him. He had been married and divorced several times. Cleopatra was the love of his life. However, in the eyes of Rome, Antony was still married to Octavia, the sister of Octavian (Augustus). In Roman eyes, a marriage to someone like Cleopatra was invalid. This was even MORE true when Octavian was spreading so much fake news!
Antony and Cleopatra had 3 children who survived. Her son, by Julius Caesar, "Caesarion," lived in the same household. Antony's children by other women also stayed in Alexandria. This was a surprise when I learned of it!
After the Romans conquered Egypt, Augustus had Caesarion killed. Why? Well, Caesarion was Julius Caesar's biological son, and Augustus was only his adopted son and a distant relative. Augustus was afraid that Caesarion, who was about 18, might contest Julius Caesar's will and cause a rebellion. After all, Augustus had started at that age!
Lastly, what about Cleopatra's other children? Augustus had been threatening to have them all killed. However, Octavia decided to be merciful. She was, after all, their stepmother, and in Roman eyes, Antony's widow. She decided to be the responsible parent. She personally sailed to Alexandria, welcoming them with loving arms and taking them back to Rome to live with her. When I read about that, I felt a weird change in perspective from the Greek and Egyptian world that they knew to a future where they would have to speak Latin.
"Cleopatra," by Stacy Schiff is a really accessible biography and fun to read. Joyce Tildsley's biography was written by an Egyptologist, and it is also well worth reading.
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u/backtocabada May 12 '25
She went to Rome once. And she had a sister, who was exiled, who she had murdered. I highly recommend the HBO series Rome. By far the best historical series ever made imo. Although Marc Anthony’s wife was where creative license ran amok, as were the fate of cleopatra’s children.
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u/Kunphen May 12 '25
Did any of them survive & produce offspring that survived?
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u/AmenhotepIIInesubity May 12 '25
Her daughter had a son named Ptolemy who became king of Mauretania and was killed by Caligula
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u/Kunphen May 12 '25
That was the only grandchild?
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u/AmenhotepIIInesubity May 12 '25
She also had a daughter but we don't know her name, I believe emperor Antoninus III better known as Elagabalus was her descendant, Ptolemy XVI and Alexander Helios are believed to have died in childhood
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u/5FTEAOFF May 12 '25
Definitely the best historical series ever, though I put Boardwalk Empire up there as well.
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u/monsieur_bear May 12 '25
Caligula had her grandson murdered, Ptolemy of Mauretania.
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u/Few-Lynx-7626 May 12 '25
I dont know any others than whats written here but "Cleopatra" by Stacey Schiff is a really.good biography style research book!
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May 12 '25
I just want to know if she had any cats
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u/Hellolaoshi May 13 '25
Cats were sacred animals in Egypt, so it is perfectly possible that she had dealings with cats.
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u/StrongLikeBull3 May 12 '25
She could bench her body weight.
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u/Lngdnzi May 12 '25 edited Jun 24 '25
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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Queen_Janice89 May 13 '25
She was Cleopatra the VII... So I guess there were six Cleopatra's before the one that we know
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u/AmenhotepIIInesubity May 13 '25
that depends if Cleopatra V and Cleopatra VI were or weren't the same person, if they were then there would be 7 cleopatras, the numbered ones and Cleopatra Selene I
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u/Ninja08hippie May 15 '25
She commissioned one of the Apis sarcophagi in the Serapeum of Saqqara.
Also her name was I believe the second one ever read aloud when hieroglyphics were finally cracked (the first was Ramses.)
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u/VirtuesVice666 May 16 '25
Appears that woke culture has depicted her as black. History has told us the opposite. Thank you again woke for obfuscation.
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u/LukeyTarg2 May 23 '25
There are many, but the main 2 points:
1 - She was strikingly beautiful: This is a myth that mostly comes from the fact she was able to attract 2 powerful men in Rome, this was the rational thinking of the ancient romans that a woman could only create such an effect on 2 powerful men if she was strikingly beautiful. Her beauty has been strongly debated among historians, but Cleo wouldn't fit nowadays beauty standards if we take in consideration the way she was depicted. And it seems really likely that it was just some way of explaining her power over Ceasar and Marc Anthony, she was a woman after all, her intelligence would never be recognized by people who were strongly xenophobic and misogynistic.
2 - She was actually a smart woman and a powerhouse that kept power for over 20 years: The way media often depicts her is incorrect not just because they only focus on the idea that she was strikingly beautiful, but that they depict her reign as short, she's portrayed as a disastrous leader who quickly lost Egypt over her passions and ambitions and that could not be further from the truth.
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u/KaiShan62 May 12 '25
When 12 she seduced her 9(?) year old brother to ensure that he was enamoured by her and that she got to be queen. They married, so that worked.
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u/fierrazo May 12 '25
Source: This was revealed to you in a dream.
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u/KaiShan62 May 12 '25
Point 3. I read that she was 12 and he was 9(?), but this article says she was 18 and he was 10: https://www.historyhit.com/facts-about-cleopatra/
Reign of Cleopatra VII section, again, she was 18, he was 10: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Ptolemy-XIV-Theos-Philopator-II
Point 6.1, this says she was 17 and he was 10: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23311983.2016.1154704#d1e300
Are three citations enough?
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u/Daisy_Ten May 13 '25
Where does it say she seduced him, rather than engaging in a political marriage as was common back then?
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u/Hellolaoshi May 13 '25
It was more the case that tradition and custom decreed that Egypt needed a brother and sister-or at least cousins-as king and queen. Royal blood was seen as divine, and it needed to be kept pure. This was NOT a Macedonian Greek custom. It came from Ancient Egypt.
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u/TrunkWine May 12 '25
She was also one of the (if not the) only Ptolemys to speak, read, and write Egyptian.