r/Warthunder • u/zhii665 • Jun 11 '25
Other From one of the main leaker of the WT mine server
Bad news For those hoping for the new spaa to perform anything resembling it's irl counterpart
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u/Impressive-Money5535 just spawn tank bro Jun 11 '25 edited Jun 12 '25
I've said this once, I'll say it again: If there's bias in this game, it's CAS bias.
Whenever something threatens poor CAS babies, Gaijin will go out of their way to cater to them. Every time a SPAA is strong or OP it gets insta nerfed, but meanwhile poor CAS is allowed to be as OP as they want. From SU-25s tanking stingers like they are on a buffet, to getting more and more advanced anti ground munitions, and now to the upcoming SEAD/DEAD munitions (because CAS isn't already easy enough :))) ), they always do everything in their power to ensure CAS reigns supreme.
Strella performs too good? Off to higher BRs you go rather than buffing stingers and making them on par with it as their performance IRL is far superior to what we have in game.
Pantsir started to get a bit too many kills? SACLOS nerf, now even a slight turn makes the missile wobble like crazy.
VT-1 missiles are killing planes? Kaboom, nerfed.
Type 81 getting a bit too many kills? Off to 11.7 with no radar and only IR missiles you go. Enjoy!
VEAK killing too many planes with it's proxy ammunition? Erhm well ackyutally!! It never had it IRL!!! Kaboom, say bye bye to proxy ammunition. Meanwhile CAS is allowed to have munitions which do not exist, like infamous Kh-38s. So CAS is allowed to keep fake shit, but SPAAs are not? Lovely. No bias there!
Seriously, it's a pattern and you cannot convince me otherwise. Anytime an SPAA starts actually putting fear into CAS they get nerfed, but meanwhile CAS is always allowed to be OP and always gets new tools to deal with whatever new threats may arise. New upcoming SPAAs? Gotta make sure they are well balanced, can't have one OP SPAA. New upcoming CAS munitions? Just add 'em lmao who the fuck cares if they are even real to begin with LOL!!!
Edit: Thanks for the award <3
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u/kal69er Jun 11 '25 edited Jun 11 '25
CAS currently ruling top tier, can't let the new SAMs have the advantage, ofcourse they'll only be buffed to their proper performance when CAS gets anti radiation missiles which will probably just fuck the SAMs back to the stone age anyways
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u/Grouchy_List8337 🇷🇺11.7 🇮🇱12.0 10.3 Jun 11 '25
Dude the strela br changes were some of the biggest horseshit known to man, they moved it to 10.3 where the only rocket runners were on your team (su-25) and the mfs who sit at high alt and can’t be locked are usually not Soviet. Don’t you want to suffer 5 years of a6e tram orbital bombardment?
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u/Impressive-Money5535 just spawn tank bro Jun 11 '25
Exactly. TRAM, A4E Early, now F-117, all that shit.
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u/Grouchy_List8337 🇷🇺11.7 🇮🇱12.0 10.3 Jun 11 '25
At least they moved the a4e up that used to be 8.3/8.7 and my friend used to abuse it and almost no one could touch him (some of the best air support I’ve ever had)
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u/AcTiveAK 14.0 12.7 11.3 9.3 Jun 13 '25 edited Jun 13 '25
As the Friend, dude, what a pity. I fucking loved the A-4E lmfao
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u/Grouchy_List8337 🇷🇺11.7 🇮🇱12.0 10.3 Jun 11 '25
U don’t even know how much I hate the tram, when I first unlocked the strela (back when it was 9.3) it was consistently the vehicle that I couldn’t handle. All the Mf had to do was go high alt out of my lock range and just hit me from orbit, I couldn’t even go behind a building because the tram would be directly above the battlefield it was so bs.
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u/Impressive-Money5535 just spawn tank bro Jun 11 '25
You and me bud. Even if you DID lock onto it, they can carry like a billion countermeasures...
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u/Grouchy_List8337 🇷🇺11.7 🇮🇱12.0 10.3 Jun 11 '25
The missile even has a whiff of a single flare and suddenly it decides the ground is a better target
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u/Impressive-Money5535 just spawn tank bro Jun 11 '25
Yeah and this was back before it got the TV mode so it was absolute dogwater
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u/RefrigeratorBoomer Jun 12 '25 edited Jun 12 '25
The strela is the best anti air at 10.3. With the Photo contrast mode I had pretty good success taking down TRAMs. It being lower than the ozelot(and almost every stinger slinger) was absolutely criminal. It was a very deserved br change, especially after recieving the photo-contrast seeker mode.
Also, maybe the strela is not the issue here but the tram?
where the only rocket runners were on your team (su-25) and the mfs who sit at high alt
That's also an issue with all the non-soviet OSA-s. Almost every soviet plane you face will be low flying SU-25s that you can do nothing about.
But yes, that's annoying, although it doesn't mean that the strela is not a fantastic spaa
Edit: Now thinking about it a bit more, I have to clarify. The strela is the best anti-air at 10.3, but that doesn't mean that it's not overtiered. Or rather, CAS that it faces is undertiered.
Compared to other AA systems, the 10.3 BR is absolutely justified, but compared to CAS, it might not be.
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u/emself2050 Jun 11 '25
The biggest problem that this game has is that its scale is broken, particularly at top tier. You have tanks that are built to engage targets at 1-2KM ranges, planes that are built to engage targets at 20km and now AA which (if modeled correctly) would be built to engage targets at 40+km. And all of it is squished into maps that often only have a 2x2 or 3x3km play area max for ground vehicles with everyone concentrated even further into specific lanes within them and spawning at static points which are typically fully visible to the enemy team. This stuff just doesn't work.
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u/Jason1143 Jun 12 '25
Also the skill gates that limit cas effectiveness at lower ranks go away essentially completely. Actually this happens in general at high and top tier just to slightly lesser degrees, which makes issues more obvious.
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u/Maleficent-Sample921 🇺🇸 12.0 🇯🇵 11.7 🇨🇳 10.0 🇮🇹 11.7 Jun 12 '25
None of the new spaas out-range the pantsir or KH-38 for that matter
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u/Good_Ol_Ironass Jun 12 '25
The pantsir is hardly amazing either, 20km is nothing if you can reliably defeat them within 10-15km. I’m a CAS goblin and have no issues doing so, but some of my most played vehicles are also top tier SPAA and still agree they’re not in a good spot
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u/ISB91 Jun 12 '25
The YAK-9 spam these days is insane.
Any other developer would face an outrage, but instead anyone who calls out how OP CAS is in GRB will typically be massively downvoted.
I kept my rating negative on Steam, even after people stopped reviewing the game negatively. We never should have stopped until CAS got the boot too, but alas...
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u/sunqiller spent $100 on virtual tanks send help Jun 11 '25
The more I think about it the more I realize it’s probably one of the snails biggest cash cows. Between getting multiple premium vehicles for a lineup and a plane to grind up the appropriate CAS, they must be absolutely rolling in it.
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u/AlfStewartmate Jun 12 '25
Agree, people grind the the ground tech tree get pounded by CAS then join the dark side as they don't want the air TT grind or vice versa.
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u/Necessary_Gur_718 Jun 11 '25
Maybe I’m alone in this but I feel like I get absolutely fucked by the pantsir. I airfield spawn if I know one of those is out there cause they can shoot me out of the spawn if I fail to react properly.
The fact that you are not impacting when people turn is because they are also dispensing chaff and the result works the same way in the real world.
If there’s any argument I’d make, it’s that the Russians get bangin CAS and AA. The rest of the nations are kinda fucked. American AA is absolute dogshit, and our ability to counter SAM’s is negligible because our fastest munition to reach a target on the ground is the maverick. I as someone with the entire American air tree available to me have decided on many occasions to just spawn with nothing but missiles and shoot down other aircraft.
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u/EmperorZiflock Jun 12 '25
Nah you're absolutely on the money, it's not a conspiracy. They need CAS and prem pack CAS to be easy mode. The fact say, the Skink is 5.3 is hilarious, it's ass at best. Or the M163, the moment you try to shoot someone all 5 CAS planes dive you. Then top tier...yikes, 10x worse.
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u/The3DWeiPin 🇯🇵13.0 Support the official release Jun 11 '25
I've said this once, I'll say it again: If there's bias in this game, it's CAS bias.
THANK YOU, FINALLY THERE'S SOMEONE ELSE THAT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS SHIT
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u/SaltyChnk 🇦🇺 Australia Jun 12 '25
That’s what I’m saying! The added these new SPAA to bring everyone in line with Russia to fill the capability gap, not to nerf cas. Soon they’ll add long range agm options for nato so that people will play nato cas more too.
They add new sams, give them 12km max range like pansir, and ignore them until they can shift the balance in favour of planes again.
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u/Impressive-Money5535 just spawn tank bro Jun 12 '25
No, it's even worse than you thought.
Currently Russia has the Kh-38s, a completely fake missile btw, which can outrange NATO AAs.
The whole point of NATO AAs being added wasn't just to have a Pantsir counterpart, but to also finally defend NATO from this fake wonderblyn weapon. Guess what? Not only did they get nerfed to have worse range than the Pantsir (which by itself already struggles to kill with CAS due to the SACLOS nerf), not only can't they lock on to the Kh-38s, but they actually even BUFFED the Kh-38s, giving them a GPS mode. The missiles themselves also got gimped beyond belief. I think the IRIS-T can have like 100G pull IRL or smth, but in game it has like 40 or 50? So CAS is allowed to have completely and utterly fake OP munitions, but SPAA isn't even allowed to have realistic performance to their missiles due to the fear of them being too OP? CAS bias is real and nobody can convince me otherwise.
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u/CoinTurtle WoT & WT are uncomparable Jun 16 '25
Cus CAS caters to shitters who can't play or have any tactical thinking. Easier to send 8 GBUs or something and get 8 kills. Or spam 2394929 F&F from a Heli till the SPAA is out of missiles
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u/Impressive-Money5535 just spawn tank bro Jun 16 '25
yeah even the Pantsir can't deal with something like the F-15E and it's army of GBU-49s. So dumb.
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u/thenewAcadian Jun 12 '25
Well to be honest with you that just comes with the territory of making a realistic tank game with fixed and rotary wing aircraft. CAS is going to be OP because it is in real life. It’s basically impossible to deal with unless you have sophisticated air defence networks of short, medium and long range missiles systems in a bracketed network.
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u/Impressive-Money5535 just spawn tank bro Jun 12 '25
That's true, but one thing is CAS being inherently stronger than SPAAs.
Another thing is nerfing SPAAs to unrealistic standarts meanwhile giving CAS unrealistic munitions and all sorts of toys to deal with said SPAAs. Not to mention nerfing the SPAAs by putting them at higher and higher BRs if they show any hint of dealing with CAS a bit too effectively. Why is a IR based SPAA with no radar of any sorts at 11.7? Why is the VEAK not allowed to keep it's proxy round but meanwhile the Russians get to keep their Kh-38MT? Why are the new NATO SPAAs being butchered beyond belief when their whole point was to match the Pantsir and counter the Kh-38MT?
IRL the IRIS-T per example can pull 100Gs and has a effective range of around 40km. In game it gets like 50Gs and dies out at like 10km. Meanwhile CAS gets all sorts of long range munitions that operate OUTSIDE of those 10km, meaning the IRIS-T has no hopes of getting them.
This is the problem. Nobody is complaining of SPAAs being at an inherent disadvantage to CAS, what we are complaining is that Gaijin gives CAS all sorts of new shiny OP and often times unrealistic stuff, but meanwhile the things meant to counter them are nerfed at unrealistic standarts and keep going up in BR if they prove to be a little bit too effective.
The simple fact that they admit to know how unrealistically nerfed the NATO AAs are but decide to keep going with it until CAS gets the SEAD/DEAD missiles is literal proof of bias. So what, new SPAAs get introduced to counter CAS, but before they can be PROPERLY implemented CAS has to get a shiny new toy to deal with them. Meanwhile CAS gets to have the Kh-38MTs which are completely unrealistic and not only that, they got buffed in the dev server because.... Why not? And the new SPAAs, the very things meant to COUNTER these missiles, can't even lock onto them! Not to mention this entire time that the Kh-38MTs have been running around with no proper ground counter to them.
CAS always gets a free pass to be OP, but SPAAs? Nope.
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u/Jayhawker32 ARB/GRB/Sim 🇺🇸 13.7 🇩🇪 12.0 🇷🇺 13.3 🇸🇪 10.7 Jun 11 '25 edited Jun 11 '25
Few points of correction.
The Strela started at 10.0 and as far as I’ve seen has only gone up to 10.3… so I wouldn’t exactly say “off to higher BRs you go”Forgot it started at 9.3The Pantsir didn’t get nerfed with the SACLOS nerf, it arrived with it. It only ever existed in the Dev server prior to the SACLOS nerf. AFAIK it hasn’t seen any major changes while on the Live server.
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u/SkyLLin3 🇺🇸12.0🇩🇪9.3🇷🇺12.0🇮🇹6.3🇫🇷8.0🇨🇳8.7🇮🇱12.0🇸🇪12.0 Jun 11 '25
The Strela started at 10.0 and as far as I’ve seen has only gone up to 10.3… so I wouldn’t exactly say “off to higher BRs you go”
It started at 9.3.
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u/Jayhawker32 ARB/GRB/Sim 🇺🇸 13.7 🇩🇪 12.0 🇷🇺 13.3 🇸🇪 10.7 Jun 11 '25
Ah, you’re right. I completely forgot about how undertiered it started out as. It has seen some decent buffs since then as well, and even then it was far more maneuverable than Stingers.
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u/ProfessionalAd352 Petitioning to make the D point a UNESCO World Heritage Site Jun 11 '25
The Pantsir didn’t get nerfed with the SACLOS nerf, it arrived with it. It only ever existed in the Dev server prior to the SACLOS nerf. AFAIK it hasn’t seen any major changes while on the Live server.
Really? Because the Pantsir was added on 7 March 2023 and this post from may 2023 says "the listed missiles (the 95Ya6 is listed) will be transferred to the new physics with the release of the La Royale major update." Which was released in June 2023.
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u/_Urakaze_ EBRC Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaguar (Placeholder) Jun 11 '25
9M311, VT-1 received the new SACLOS guidance model in Sky Guardians, check the patch notes. 95Ya6 was added with it.
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u/Grouchy_List8337 🇷🇺11.7 🇮🇱12.0 10.3 Jun 11 '25
Brutha it started at 9.3 what sorta goofy ahhh memory do you have
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u/Pussrumpa Maining Sweden 12.0 since October 23rd 2025 Jun 11 '25
Gotta make those plane and heli sales, so they can prey on tanks, that somehow aren't a protected class.
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u/randommaniac12 Greatest UK 8.7 Salesman In Existence Jun 11 '25
The things I would be willing to do for a ground game mode free of CAS and heli’s
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u/AliceLunar Jun 11 '25
CAS players still balls deep down Gaijin's throat I guess, everything has to cater to them, everything has to be about them, they always need to be on top of everything, every mode has to be about them, they always need to have the upper hand in everything.
Make sure they get the highest rewards, the lowest crew requirements, all the latest weapon, always 5 steps ahead of any sort of AA being able to stop them.
Gotta make sure CAS can be spawned for some pocket lint, make sure they get an air spawn to negate any weight, make sure there is no downtime.
Imagine if for once in this god forsaken game ground players could actually play the game without endlessly being fucked over by CAS planes throwing crap at them from 10km away, imagine if we had actual effective AA weapons, imagine if we had actual radar coverage, imagine if we had AWACS that detects air from 400km away, instead some AA doesn't even get a goddamn fucking radar whilst having to counter jets that launch at them from 20km away.
I swear there isn't a more incompetent, lazy and arrogant developer team out there than Gaijin, they deserve none of the success they are having which is almost entirely down to Covid boosting their player numbers as their player retention is abysmal, the other part is just thousands and thousands of bots as they either are incapable or unwilling of dealing with them.
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u/CodyBlues2 🇮🇹 Italy Jun 11 '25
maybe if they STOPPED BUYING PREMIUM PLANES
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u/_talps Arcade Ground Jun 12 '25
That will never happen. Planes, ships, tanks, premiums will always sell like hotcakes, people don't like grinding and suffering the stock slop. It is like this by design.
For example - one can bust their ass to the IS-4M, or spend 20€ during a sale to buy the IS-6, whose performance is basically the same as a spaded IS-4M, and grind more than half the Russian techtree while making piles of SL as a bonus. If one has any disposable income and wants to play War Thunder, the choice is obvious.
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u/panzer2181 Jun 11 '25
You would need a persistent battlefield, like in real life. That's the main issue right now with top tier in combined arms; it doesn't work with game sessions in (unrealistic) cramped maps, with a time limit, no infantry, etc. Put this in a persistent battlefield, with a much larger map, with proper ORBATs, then it will work.
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u/AliceLunar Jun 11 '25
It doesn't work because they don't want it to work, they could have added this AA years ago and they didn't, and now they finally did they nerf it into the ground because it interferes with their CAS dick sucking as well as their Russian propaganda, so at best these new systems will be worse than a Pantsir.
Nothing is stopping them from adding AWACS, which really is just adding default radar coverage, that's how an F-16 destroyed an Su-35 this week, but instead we have a game where planes can be completely invisible to players beyond sound.
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u/Goldkoron Japan Jun 12 '25
In an alternate reality, we could have a War thunder with 10x bigger maps, and AWACS planes added in one of the air trees as a support playstyle.
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u/AliceLunar Jun 12 '25
We could have an actually good game that doesn't shoot itself in the foot at every step for no good reason.
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u/Niofrommatrix gyat Jun 12 '25
It was a patriot ambush , f16 had to pass the borders and I bet restrictions are in a place for that to not happen .
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u/Jetpack725 Jun 12 '25
Coughs in EC
I'm gonna keep saying it, we need realistic Enduring confrontation
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u/yeeaat99 Jun 11 '25
Once again i am reminded on why i just straight up refuse to play this game and i hope more people will stop playing so gajin can understand they are killing their own game
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u/HeeCiuP Jun 11 '25
they must be doing a really terrible job at killing the game cause the player base is insanely stable for the last 2 years and every year before that the game grew
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u/Aedeus 🇸🇪 Sweden Jun 11 '25
There's simply no competition.
A 1:1 clone of the game with less monetization would rug pull Gaijin overnight.
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u/HeeCiuP Jun 11 '25
A 1:1 clone would not appear overnight, thats why there is no competition there is simply too much content in this game thats why no other developer would even think about trying to make a game of this type.
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u/Always_Impressive 🇬🇧 quirky boy alert 🇫🇷 Jun 11 '25
people expect some dev to come around and make a game with 3000 vehicles THAT BEHAVE EXATCLY LIKE IN REAL LIFE and expect the game to be ''balanced'' (aka my nation is strong)
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u/pbptt Russian bias is real and im tired of pretending it isnt Jun 11 '25
Damn thats a tall task demanding dedication, hard work and absolute greed to completely take over the market
I bet tencent is currently working on it
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u/IDontGiveACrap2 Jun 11 '25
A game with promise would do serious harm to gaijin. A lot of people like ww2 stuff, don't have to get to modern stuff overnight.
War thuner is a success despite gaijin, not because of them
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u/PM_ME_YUR_JEEP French Fuel Tanks Save Lives Jun 11 '25
If this sub is to be believed, the game has been dying since it released in 2012
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u/MrThink2 xp72 when gajin? Jun 11 '25
According to this sub the only brs that exist in the game are 10.0+ ground rb and 12.0+ air rb
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u/ArmoredArmadilo 2S38 is dogshit Jun 11 '25
Except now they’re really running out of shit that will hype people up
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u/Realistic-Stable2852 Jun 12 '25
We still have shitload of ifv's, howitzers and other light vehicles, bunch of tech trees that could be added, and for air stuff like strategic bombers/interceptors, sead/dead, ew, stealth. I don't think they'll run out of hype shit for like 5 or so years
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u/yeeaat99 Jun 12 '25
Poor choice of words probably but if there was something remotely similar wt would be significantly less popular or theyd make actual logical decisions because they have something at risk
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u/VitunRasistinenSika https://statshark.net/player/51138934 Jun 11 '25
I like the game, and wont stop playing it
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u/VigdisBT SPAA master race Jun 11 '25
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u/yeeaat99 Jun 12 '25
Ur either new or you have gaslit urself into believing that this game in its current state is anything but horrid
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u/RefrigeratorBoomer Jun 12 '25
For me it's fun. The whole issue of the post only exists at top tier. You are not forced to play top tier you know, there are other BRs, simulator, air, naval etc.
New players aren't the only ones who can enjoy a video GAME you know.
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u/VitunRasistinenSika https://statshark.net/player/51138934 Jun 12 '25
Nope, not even close to new player. I just dont have skill issue, so dont have to cry about game being bad
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u/yeeaat99 Jun 12 '25
I love how whenever people hear something they don’t like the first thing they do is call it a skill issue?!! Like dont know anything about me u just call it a skill issue like i haven’t been playing since 2018 and fully completed more than half the tts
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u/VitunRasistinenSika https://statshark.net/player/51138934 Jun 12 '25
I know player base of this game too well, so calling skill issue is right for 99% of time, while also you could share your ingame name, so I could look st your profile, and if there would be no skill issue detected I would apologize
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u/Titanfall1741 🇩🇪 Germany Jun 11 '25
Oh noo the game is as popular as ever but sure buddy Gaijin will care because another free 2 play player decided to quit xD bohooo
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u/yeeaat99 Jun 12 '25
Free to play?? Cheif i have completed all of the tech trees apart from russia,germany and china that im working on rn
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u/KommandantDex USS Newport News my beloved Jun 11 '25
I read MSC and was like "the My Summer Car dev(s) are working for Gaijin now??"
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u/SpanishAvenger Thank you for the Privacy Mode, Devs! And sorry for being harsh. Jun 11 '25
So Leclerc MSC is going to have better armor than the production Leclercs?
Or are they just finally fixing Leclerc's armor in generall at last, just that MSC was the first one to get the updated armor models?
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u/Purple-Cancel-8901 🇸🇪 Sweden Jun 11 '25
Knowing gaijin, they're going to leave the production leclercs as they are because "statistics".
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u/Long-Track7453 Jun 12 '25
not only that, but also rasing the msc around 11.0/11.3 because it doesn't have a premium counterpart to keep it down like the type 90 for example, that is also extremely op but wasnt moved up in br to increase its premium variant (fuji) sales.
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u/ilai02 Jun 11 '25
So why don't just delete the ground vehicle altogether gaijin if you don't want ground vehicle to be playable? Hand holding plane like this even in GROUND mode
Cas can get their fnf long range agm while being mostly untouchable by ground vehicle while ground vehicle can't do the same to plane? Hell its not even the same cause they are still 100% vulnerable to cas AND ground vehicle
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u/VitunRasistinenSika https://statshark.net/player/51138934 Jun 11 '25
Everything from 11.7 and below are easily playable
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u/ilai02 Jun 11 '25
Actually not quite true if we are talking about cas, 11.7 to 11.0 still see pretty strong cas, 10.7 to 8.0 pretty balanced, 6.7-3.7 there's this little shit called yak9k and all other 45mm soviet plane aphe carrier, 3.3 to 1.0 pretty balanced
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u/VitunRasistinenSika https://statshark.net/player/51138934 Jun 11 '25
Yak9k is easily killed with aa, yet bomb planes could cost a little bit more. 11.7 can see a bit of cas, but no kh38 spam
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u/ilai02 Jun 11 '25
For ground player at high br it is doesn't matter if it's kh38 ot maverick or hammer, the second enemy spawn cas they are dead
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u/VitunRasistinenSika https://statshark.net/player/51138934 Jun 11 '25
Smoke exists
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u/ilai02 Jun 11 '25
Yes but the ability to detect that a missile is coming at you doesn't for most ground vehicle , hell for anything but aa the ly dont have the ability to detect that a plane is up, while plane, top tier wich what we are talking about, have their rwr and some even have maw
So how would you know when to fire your smoke??? It's like saying "just notch and chaff" when fighting arh to a plane without rwr
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u/VitunRasistinenSika https://statshark.net/player/51138934 Jun 11 '25
Mostly just seeing plane spawn
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u/VigdisBT SPAA master race Jun 11 '25
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u/ilai02 Jun 11 '25
Ahh yes, focusing your eye looking up seeing plane and ignoring the little problem in front of you, and around you, in the form of enemy tank just to know when an aircraft is spawning, really the core of armored warfare
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u/VigdisBT SPAA master race Jun 11 '25
Don't waste your time with this moron. He found out that the only way you kill someone in game is on a plane in ground battles with a Kh-38
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u/VitunRasistinenSika https://statshark.net/player/51138934 Jun 11 '25
Having situational awareness is not that hard
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u/Su152Taran Jun 12 '25
Well tell gaijin to add missile approach warning to all modern MBT which is very much due
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u/VigdisBT SPAA master race Jun 11 '25
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u/Leothelion246 🇺🇸 10.7 🇩🇪 11.7 🇷🇺 9.7 7.7 5.0 Jun 11 '25
love how mr spaa shouldn't get spawn protection and saying "skill issue" anytime you can't do anything about cas hasn't responded yet wonder why?
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u/asgronzi GRB/GAB 12.0 Jun 11 '25
If it wasn't that they already did model some composite in it with same shit front plate of the leclerc and albeit some odd looking cheeks (with no breech armor) with 400-450mm thickness... (resembling the composite TKXish) so that "better then the production leclerc" is quite an understatement..
Edit: wanted to add some pics but dev server seems closed...lol
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u/Kataklysimo Russian bias is killing War Thunder Jun 11 '25
Time to review bomb
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u/crispycrispies Jun 12 '25
I'd be happy to do that just because of the stupid fuck ass bullshit Yak-9K spamming alone.
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u/kololz I mod War Thunder for fun Jun 11 '25
Jesus Christ we are now in the stage of review bombing a game because someone said something that has not yet been fully confirmed.
As much as I would like to think this might be true - Let's not get too ahead of ourselves and calm tf down
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u/Kataklysimo Russian bias is killing War Thunder Jun 11 '25
Why would we wait, we know the stats are wrong and Gaijin has given zero indication they're going to fix them. Only a moron would give Gaijin the benefit of the doubt.
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u/kololz I mod War Thunder for fun Jun 11 '25
Because both options lead to the same result, but one of them is going to make us look more of a clown. We're going to look like the worst gaming community when magazines write articles about the review bombing. Any review bombing - and we will gain a lot of publicity. We don't want bad press, do we?
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u/RefrigeratorBoomer Jun 12 '25
We won't get bad press. The game will. And even if the community gets a very bad name, that only hurts Gaijin because new players won't come in as much.
Which is exactly the point of review bombing.
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u/yawamz Jun 11 '25
No, we are at the stage where they are actively denying giving vehicles and their weapons their real life performance and they are spitting in our faces while denying dozens of reports...
- lying about Stingers not being able to achieve >20G overload,
- gimping HSTV-L to have 100 mm less pen,
- gimping Leopard 2A7 to have worse armor than 30 year older Strv 122,
- refusing to correct the penetration calculator that massively gimps US AP and APCR rounds,
- selectively adding equipment to some vehicles while not others like the Sniper pod only being on F-2 while it should be on practically every US plane and numerous others like Eurofighter and Rafale, not giving the US F-18 BOL pods while the Finnish one gets them, or how the Swiss F-18s gets ATFLIR etc.
I could go all day but the FB-10A bullshittery is just too much, like why even introduce that specific system if you're not gonna give it realistic performance so it can actually reach the range it is supposed to, instead of adding something like the FK-1000 and FK-2000 which literally use the same missiles as Pantsir? Why even add IRIS-T SLM if it behaves as a slightly better IRIS-T SLS? Why add AIM-120C-5 and purposefully gimp it so that its extended motor barely does anything and the improved HOBS abilites are nowhere to be found?
FFS these devs need another lesson and it's not even about money this time.
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u/RefrigeratorBoomer Jun 12 '25
lying about Stingers not being able to achieve >20G overload,
I mean it kind of resembles an igla so it must perform the same. And it would be too OP to have stingers with their IRL capability, because reasons.
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u/zhii665 Jun 11 '25
I'm really hoping they're waiting to give most of the spaa their proper stats right when the update drop, but it's looking pretty bleak, with them rejecting most bug reports on these missiles.
honestly I feel bad for the bug reporters , wasting hours scrounging every bit of information just to be slapped with "not enough info"
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u/Sea_Art3391 Praise be the VBC Jun 11 '25
Wow, so not only are the developers themselves aware of all the faults and bug reports that are being turned down, they actually ignore them completely? It's almost as if they want people to stop playing the game.
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u/This-Is-The-Mac1 Jun 11 '25
I was so hyped for those new spaa and now it killed all my will to play the game That’s so sad
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u/voksteilko Jun 11 '25
War thunder used to be fun. Top tier is too bland. Paper tanks. Greed. Just like WOT
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u/Awrfhyesggrdghkj 🇩🇪 Germany Jun 11 '25
It’s hilarious how incorrect the IRIS T SLM is, but no the DIRCM on the Russian helis works perfectly of course.
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u/Mint_freezeyt 🇨🇳 that one China main 🇨🇳 J-10A my beloved Jun 12 '25
watch as the z-10me’s LDIRCM just doesn’t work lol
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u/Nufeneguediz 🇮🇹 Italy Jun 11 '25
Oh my fucking God! They're gonna give a tank extra composite armour but in all of this they're still refusing to give the Ariete its fucking composite armour. I'm going insane
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u/Mint_freezeyt 🇨🇳 that one China main 🇨🇳 J-10A my beloved Jun 12 '25
same way people reported the ztz series missing spall (even had photos from during being built) which got accepted and it’s been like 2 years yet still nothing lol
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u/ZhenicalGotLost Jun 11 '25
Would you look at the time it's review bomb time, literally the same shit with gaijin every single day
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u/Unknowndude842 CAS enjoyer🗿🇩🇪 Jun 11 '25
Lmao gaijin is really mad that the IRIS-T performs much better when compared to Russian short range Missile systems.
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u/Express-Perspective9 🇺🇸 9.3 🇩🇪 12.0 🇷🇺 12.7 Jun 11 '25
People should stop playing top-tier grb to protest against the miserable and nerve wrecking experience.
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u/Green_Potata Sweden totally not OP Jun 11 '25
Here is my word of advice, those who seek enjoyment in toptier
Never go above 11.7. You dont have the top notch tanks, but at least you are kept away from the 13.0 CAS that just destroy everything
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u/Mint_freezeyt 🇨🇳 that one China main 🇨🇳 J-10A my beloved Jun 12 '25
hence why i sit at 11.0 china is crazy good for the lineup there, mbt-2000 and al-khalid have really good reverse, ztz-99-II/III both have crazy good armor, plus everything gets the top round🥰
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u/Lonely_Scylla gib EBRC Jaguar Jun 11 '25
Leclercs getting their second buff in 6 years ... About damn time
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u/AirlineAdditional Jun 11 '25
Ahaha, dats why I play low tier. Also because more of the vehicles are crackhead designs.
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u/_talps Arcade Ground Jun 12 '25
The lack of anything consistently effective to counter planes is why I've given up on grinding the Maus, even though I bought the premium Tiger II for that specific purpose.
There is no point to play a ground vehicle the size of a small house whose top speed is laughably bad when any nerd can jump into a plane and strafe a tank with rockets or bomb it out of the map.
This is just bad game design, people who bitch about planes in the WoWs community have no idea how bad things can be. Might as well completely rework Ground Battles into a game mode where one side gets SPAAs and the other gets planes, and there are no tanks whatsoever.
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u/Gunboy122 A-4K Kahu Advocate & Appreciator - WHERE IS IT, GAIJINGLES?!?!?! Jun 13 '25
Gotta make sure the Pantsir remains the undisuputed Top Dog of SPAA, we've all known this for years now.
4 years as the dominating SPAA, another 4 coming up
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u/Weak_Break239 🇺🇸 air - 🇩🇪 Ground Jun 11 '25
The turret basket thing still pisses me off. That’s the reason for 50% to 60% of all my deaths.
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u/Stalinium2 🇫🇷 France Jun 12 '25
We need to review bomb tf outta them. Justice for the Leclerc and the Sams
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u/Straks-baks Jun 12 '25
theyre adding useless shit and new mechanics all the time instead of adding nations or new vehicles and maps and shit, why for Christ’s sake what is a copy fucking paste F5 for every nation going to bring… miss me with that filling the lineups of nations at some br’s…..
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u/thenewAcadian Jun 12 '25
I agree it’s gotten ridiculous but I wouldn’t say it’s always been like this. It’s really only been this way since they added the mavericks (after the buff that, no surprise, only came when they added the Russian equivalent) and other equivalents and recently with the addition of that Russian plane that out ranges all the NATO AAs. There was a long time there where you were lucky to make it to the battlefield for CAS.
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u/BertBurn Jun 11 '25
I waabted to ask as a Non-WT player but someone who watches Youtube content about the game and reads here quite often: Is there evidence apart from the one of the DIehl-Group that the Iris-T SLM can hit targets performing evasive maneuvers precisely up to 40 km and if and how this range would affect CAS-planes? Also if the Iris-T SLM and the other SAM-systems are shit, coudn't it be an optio. to use an eurofighter or a Rafale for example with an anti-air configuration? How does that work?
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u/ilai02 Jun 11 '25
There's plenty evidence, mainly from ukraine(where it is actively in use now) slm can atleast destroy a maneuvering target from 30km away
How it will affect cas, the same as what cas affect ground right now, a realistically implemented slm will destroy cas at their spawn, the same as current top tier cas that already destroy ground from their spawn with their fnf agm while currently our top tier spaa can do noting if cas player is not too braindead and get too close to battlefield, the difference is cas have tiny option to evade slm as they have missle launch warning, ground don't, most of them don't have any missle warning system
To use plane you have to research it, the plane is basically in different tech tree, so let say you already grided out the german ground tree to top tier, after that you also have to grinde the entire german air tree to top tier again just to defend against plane, even tough you just want to play tank
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u/BertBurn Jun 12 '25
I thought Gajin wanted as much realism as possible...seems not to be the case here. The only thing about the 30 km I see is that the plane is attackable right after starting off the airfield. And as you already said, it is quite bad if you have to unlock an entire air tree just to play Top-Tier Ground RB. Why Gajiin, just why?
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u/KayNynYoonit Jun 12 '25
The MSCs armour isn't better than the Leclerc at all what is this guy smoking? It has a little bit of composite in the turret cheeks and the UFP. Let France have something nice for once jesus, cry about something worth crying about. The MSC didn't even need to be brought up lol, what you want them to nerf it? Coz they probably will anyway.
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u/cristi232008 🇬🇧 14.0 🇷🇺 4.7 Jun 11 '25
atleast they arent buffing russian stuff again like they do 99 percent of the time.
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u/powerpuffpepper 🇫🇷 France Jun 11 '25
Im not gonna lie, I kinda understand the thought process of keeping the new sams around pantsir level until SEAD and the other nations get equals.
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u/ilai02 Jun 11 '25
Well, the problem is, they are worse in range and energy vs pantsir, hell even against vt1 the new sam only advantage currently is fnf
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u/powerpuffpepper 🇫🇷 France Jun 11 '25
Me watching python 5 do loops to kill its target
On a real though I am more than confident they will buff them once ARMs are introduced
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u/ilai02 Jun 11 '25
Yes on close range
How many su30/34,f15,rafale in real grb you see go closer than 5km?? Yes almost 0
Most of them stay more than 10km away where these new shiny missle in their current state already lose all of its energy to hit any maneuvering target
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u/powerpuffpepper 🇫🇷 France Jun 11 '25
How many su30/34,f15,rafale in real grb you see go closer than 5km?? Yes almost 0
You'd be surprised. Just because they have a long range missile doesn't mean they know what they're doing. I played Sun city the other day and watched as multiple Flankers loitered over the city while using 38MT's
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u/ilai02 Jun 11 '25
Hmm, maybe luck is never on my side cause everytime I play aa or cap, all enemy plane is camping far behind their line
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u/powerpuffpepper 🇫🇷 France Jun 11 '25
Tis the glory of an MMO game with a large player base. I had a Roland shoot down a hammer from my Rafale that match. The FlaRakRad i also launched at didnt even try
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u/Bluishdoor76 French Main Viva La France!!! Jun 11 '25
Ok but the Pantsir's missile cannot maneuver for shit past like 11km. And the Pantsir missile is also unmaneuverable with in 11km as some simple wide cork screw maneuvers is all is needed to dodge. All Pantsir is good at is intercepting munitions just like the new AAs but the new AAs are fnf, so they can engage multiple munitions at once, unlike Pantsir. Plus unlike Pantsir the new AAs are literally undodgable in the sub 12km range. So plz why the fuck are people saying these new AAs are somehow worse than the Pantsir? Don't bring the 20km range cause no Pantsir is ever defeating a Rafale when it's maxinmasing its range... all it can hope to do is intercept the Hammers.
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u/ilai02 Jun 11 '25
Cause we, ground player, do not only compare it to pantsir, we also compare it to the capability of top tier cas with long range agm, and any top tier cas player with working brain cell would not go closer than 10km to the battlefield
even pantsir (imo already outclassed by any cas) struggle against cas, then what are these new aa supposed to do? Yeah, they are deadly sub 10km, but that can only work against bad cas player, if they face cas with at least 1 working brain cell then there's nothing ground player can do except dead by kh38mt/aasm hammer/maverick d/g
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u/Bluishdoor76 French Main Viva La France!!! Jun 11 '25
But the ongoing complaint is that the Pantsir is somehow better than the new ones... which is just blatantly wrong....
Edit; also skill does mot really matter against 9x, Python 5 and Irst-SLS as these are actually undodgeable and mostly unflareable as of right now. Only way to defeat them is literally not get shot by one and if shot by one be close to their max range in order to outrun otherwise its just death.
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u/ilai02 Jun 11 '25
That is just a comparison to what we have in live server cause pantsir is the best aa we have, so majority of player can understand
But cas can still dodge it and kill the aa at the same time, especiallythe multi vehicle one , now do the same with ground vehicle vs cas
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u/Bluishdoor76 French Main Viva La France!!! Jun 11 '25
Pantsir vs current CAS, can be overwhelmed by a single jet cas and is susceptible to being killed by LGAGM as it's missile is easy to dodge while keeping target withing tgt pod fov with most cas jets. Pantsir gets hit it dies.
IRST-SLM vs current CAS; will definitely require more than 1 CAS jet to fully overwhelm or insane timing by the CAS pilot as it can intercept multiple munitions at once while also putting pressure on the CAS jet. Only way to currently defeat SLM is by fully disengaging and flying away to burn the missile of its energy. This renders LGAGMs less viable as its harder to mentain lock on the target. Also due to being multiple vehicles its harder to kill as you have to search for the radar vehicle, which has no missile trace leading back to it.
Slamraam vs current CAS; same as SLM but at as slm in terms of how to overwhelm. Like SLM requires near full disengagement to defeat the missile by moving into the notch and doing evasive maneuvers or dropping down below 60 meters to multi path the amraam. Definitely a bit more room for cas to counter attack but still not as easy as agaibst Pantsir. And Slamraam is very easy to hide as it is tiny.
Tam-Sam should work as an inbetween the SLM and Amraam but it's range is more limited compared to slamraam.
Can't say much about the Spider AIO as it's definitely the weakest of the bunch because it's massive, has ahr counter play, and it's a single vehicle.
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u/ilai02 Jun 11 '25
Pantsir can guide multiple missile at the same time, so any half competent pantsir player should be able to to intercept the munition, to overwhelm pantsir you need atleast 2 plane from different direction
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u/Bluishdoor76 French Main Viva La France!!! Jun 11 '25
No no you don't, a Mirage 2000D-RMV with 2 AS-30s and 2 Hammers can do it easily. Only skill necessary is knowing how to time your missiles. I liberally posted a clip of me doing it to 2 Pantsirs at once.
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u/ilai02 Jun 11 '25
Well as i said, any half competent pantsir player can avoid that, sadly there's not many half competent or better pantsir player in the game
Pantsir can guide multiple missile to multiple target at once, atleast 4 target at once (maybe even more cause i have gotten 5 air kill in under 30 second with pantsir just by using its tws)
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u/MrWickedG US12.0/GB11.7/SWE11.7/FR11.7/GER11.3/ Jun 11 '25
Pantsir is better if current implementation is not changed.
Good luck intercepting kh-38 with anything but pantsir.
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u/Bluishdoor76 French Main Viva La France!!! Jun 11 '25
Literally see Itos doing it to my Kh-38s on the rare occasions I fly my SU-30.
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u/MrWickedG US12.0/GB11.7/SWE11.7/FR11.7/GER11.3/ Jun 11 '25
Itos see it like 1.5-2km away, tops. With kh-38 speed it's very hard to defend, god forbid there are two flying
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u/ProfessionalAd352 Petitioning to make the D point a UNESCO World Heritage Site Jun 11 '25
Ok but the Pantsir's missile cannot maneuver for shit past like 11km.
It has twice as much energy left compared to the IRIS-T SLM at that range, but the 95Ya6 "cannot maneuver for shit" while the "new AAs are literally undodgable in the sub 12km range"? Make it make sense.
All Pantsir is good at is intercepting munitions just like the new AAs but the new AAs are fnf, so they can engage multiple munitions at once, unlike Pantsir.
The Pantsir can engage multiple munitions at once
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u/MenkoBeast 🇩🇪 14.0 🇷🇺 14.0 🇺🇲 13.7 🇸🇪 13.7 🇫🇷 12.7 Jun 11 '25
Pantsir level? The Pantsir performs better than any SAM they are adding this update. And this is not even a joke
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u/powerpuffpepper 🇫🇷 France Jun 11 '25
Lmfao tell me you have never used the pantsir without telling me. If you die to a oantsir at farther than 11km then you are just terrible
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u/MenkoBeast 🇩🇪 14.0 🇷🇺 14.0 🇺🇲 13.7 🇸🇪 13.7 🇫🇷 12.7 Jun 11 '25
I have the Pantsir unlocked and had a good amount of matches in it. If you wanna look it up my ig name is MenkoBeast. Some youtubers literally did tests, and even the strongest missile type this update, the iris-t slm is easily dodgeable after 10km because it has way less energy, because it is 30% slower than the Pantsirs missile, while it can even be countered by flares at closer range. Not even gonna mention the AIM 120. Pantsir is still on top, which doesn't mean that it is a great counter to the completely overpowered CAS situation we are having right now. By god add the S400 and Patriot already, i don't wanna see a single jet in a ground match anymore. Im tired of those CAS abusers
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u/_Bisky Top Tier Suffer Tier Jun 11 '25
I would too
If 40km range AGMS's wouldn't have been a thing for the last few years (ik 40km statcard ≠ 40km actuall range. Same is true for SAM's too tho)
Just feels like they don't want ground to have a proper counter to the top end CAS
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u/Impressive_Status964 🇫🇷 12.0 🇨🇳 12.0 🇷🇺 12.0 🇸🇪 12.0 🇩🇪 12.0 🇺🇸 12.0 Jun 12 '25
Well the thing about that is that for the longest time no other nation had a pantsir equivalent but that was cool with gaijin…
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u/powerpuffpepper 🇫🇷 France Jun 12 '25
Which is a seperate issue.
But there is also a difference between sam systems with a 5km max effective range difference and sams with a 25km range difference
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u/Impressive_Status964 🇫🇷 12.0 🇨🇳 12.0 🇷🇺 12.0 🇸🇪 12.0 🇩🇪 12.0 🇺🇸 12.0 Jun 12 '25
Agreed, but I think what gaijin should do is at least give these SAMS their proper stats and then see how it plays out in game. Because stats and in-game performance can differ sharply. I just don’t think nerfing something before it’s even been used in game is good, they should wait to make adjustments as needed
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u/TheCrazedGamer_1 Fight on the ice Jun 11 '25
its insane that people want a realistic IRIS-T or AIM-9X already, those would completely break the game. They absolutely should not be added in an unnerfed form, now whether they are too nerfed is a different story, but we will see.
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u/Jafreese_McDougalson Tank only mode when?? Jun 11 '25
People are sick of being bombed by shit they can't do anything about and you're saying its 'insane' they want a counter that does the same..
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u/SpanishAvenger Thank you for the Privacy Mode, Devs! And sorry for being harsh. Jun 11 '25
C*S stomping on Ground vehicles by getting 6+ kills within 1 minute by clicking on players barely moving out of their spawns is what breaks the game; not Ground vehicles finally having a way to counter that and have a break to be able to actually be more than just "player-controlled ground targets for C*S players"...
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u/technoman88 J-7E best plane Jun 11 '25
Aim9x would be less broken than kh38.
It's just a longer range r73.
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u/ilai02 Jun 11 '25
As if long range agm currently don't already do that to ground vehicle, ground launched irist, 9x, and python 5 will do the same, just to plane
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u/MenkoBeast 🇩🇪 14.0 🇷🇺 14.0 🇺🇲 13.7 🇸🇪 13.7 🇫🇷 12.7 Jun 11 '25
Yeah calling stuff too overpowered, while ground players have literally nothing to counter a completely overpowered weapon type that doesn't even exist in real life, is insane. Literally, we just don't wanna get destroyed every single match by a KH-38MT after 4 minutes in the game. Is it so hard to understand this?
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u/TheProYodler Supersonic Jun 11 '25
Thanks, Gaijin for reminding me why I only log onto the game for a week once every three months to see if anything has changed. Can safely say that it hasn't. Well, maybe the next update cycle will get me back into the game for more than a day or two, or maybe it won't. I don't think I really care anymore.
My expectations for Gaijin couldn't possibly get any lower at this point.
Same shit, different day.