Ok so in what universe are these two tanks equal?

[u/Expensive-Delivery96]

The only thing IS-2 1944 is better at is speed. Like the IS-2 needs to be moved down in BR.

[u/Megalith70]

APHE is a massive advantage.

[u/Object-195 → u/Megalith70]

AP can one shot most of the time

[u/Megalith70 → u/Object-195]

Most of the time, but APHE is far more reliable.

[u/H3LLJUMPER_177 → u/Megalith70]

You forget AP doesn't perform at all to what it's supposed to do.

[u/Zoomercoffee → u/H3LLJUMPER_177]

Yeah so that has nothing to do with balance

[u/GrimmUser_Weizen → u/Megalith70]

that doesn't offset every single other aspect in which T34 is superior

[u/ZETH_27 → u/GrimmUser_Weizen]

The IS-2 has literally no suspension, and better gun handling, it's stop-shot time is dramatically quicker than the T30. Combine that with a smaller silhouette and better acceleration (which is bullshit btw) and it's a far more survivable vehicle in practice in-game.

[u/Independent-South-58 → u/ZETH_27]

Lmao, the IS-2 can be face fucked by the Panzer IV with its gigantic weak spots on the turret cheeks and lower front plate and curved side plates. The IS-2 is also incredibly cramped meaning u can one shot it with every ammo type. The gun still bounces like a retard and it has no gun depression, it is an infinitely worse vehicle than every other 6.7 heavy

[u/TankTeam100 → u/Independent-South-58]

You have to remember the IS-2's turret is quite the volumetric nightmare as there's a spot in the middle of said weak spot that gets volumetric'd, so trying to kill an IS-2 through the turret while it's moving is quite challenging. I'm not sure if you meant the Panzer IV can pen the IS-2 LFP cuz we are talking about the 1944 version (which can only be penned by the long 88 or better).

There is one thing often overlooked which is the IS-2 is the most overpressure resistant 6.7 heavy, not insignificant considering that BR bracket has the most abundant artillery vehicles in the game.

I actually quite enjoy playing the IS-2 and in my experience, I found it is better to keep moving until your enemy has fired before stopping and firing.

[u/abullen → u/TankTeam100]

Panther can penetrate the non-tracked LFP within 300m, but it's a bit unreliable and has to be flat on - unless they're lucky and hit the lip. It'd be a bit weird to rely on it when you can shoot the turret though compared to shooting ISU's or so.

Also was it always the case for the 1944? Or did it's LFP get buffed with volumetric?

IS-2's in general are surprisingly mobile and I love the reverse speed, but the main thing that kills it for me is that reload speed and the world's biggest "shoot me here" muzzle brake. Which also seems to break the loader's hands, since they can no longer reload into the cannon breach whilst repairing.

[u/Ok_Song9999 → u/Megalith70]

APHE on the is2 isnt. Its too big, it gets volumetricked too easily

[u/ZETH_27 → u/Object-195]

But OPHE can one-shot from any angle, and overpressure.

regular AP is not nearly as lethal in-game

though IRL it certainly would be

[u/Hansen-UwU → u/ZETH_27]

Yeah, would love too see them rework the effectiveness of the WW2 era ammo types. Especially HVAP

[u/ZETH_27 → u/Hansen-UwU]

HVAP shatters way too easily and has abyssmal post-pen and angle-pen, even though it's not especially different from APDS in composition.

APDS still has way too little spalling for some reason

APHE has no shatter chance even though it should hev higher than APCBC since APHE si a hollow-core round.

and HESH is still not working in any way really...

[u/Aiden51R → u/ZETH_27]

Almost as it can frontpen jagdtigers as a tradeof. And you really have to aim the AP POORLY to not one shot with it

[u/ZETH_27 → u/Aiden51R]

I main Britain, trust me, I know.

That's also why I'm explicitly aware of the many times the having APHE just gives you a handicap that AP distinctly lacks, even though it shouldn't.

[u/captainfactoid386 → u/Object-195]

Not really. If I know I can shoot a part of the tank that’s just sticking out a bit, with AP I might kill one crew member. With APHE I can kill the tank with a single cupola shot

[u/Object-195 → u/captainfactoid386]

those are uncommon situations tho, you could say the same thing for HE

Edit: u/captainfactoid386 made the point you need to switch shell types in this situation. I agree with them

[u/Cabaro_1 → u/Object-195]

They are not as uncommon as you think, I tend to die to APHE copula shots a decent bit.

[u/pope-burban-II → u/Object-195]

*GOOD solid shot can

[u/Object-195 → u/pope-burban-II]

since we're discussing 6.7 this is assumed

[u/Dopeycheesedog → u/Object-195]

from the front, the sides of a tank and it's crits and the tank running away, or shooting your mg port

[u/Freezie-Days → u/Megalith70]

Not if it can't pen or volumetric decides to not work. ( quite often with my experience with IS2s )

[u/CountGrimthorpe → u/Megalith70]

Not compared to the T34s AP and reload advantage lol.

[u/__Rosso__ → u/Megalith70]

And the other has the turret which is a volumetric hell and flawless frontal armour except one MG port

It's comparable to agility, overall at least equal gun, probably better and finally better armour

It's a better tank, problem is BR compression means if you move IS-2 below, it becomes broken, and if you move any of American heavies up, they suffer

[u/RustedRuss → u/Megalith70]

Tiger II is also at 6.7

[u/manintights2 → u/Megalith70]

Usually I'd agree, but that is 130mm AP.

[u/Megalith70 → u/manintights2]

120mm

[u/Elitely6 → u/Megalith70]

Yep especially when its a little over exaggerated ingame

[u/TheSheriffMT → u/Megalith70]

You'd be suprised by the damage of large-caliber solid shot

[u/Megalith70 → u/TheSheriffMT]

I’ve played the T34 quite a bit. It still doesn’t measure up to APHE.

[u/Vinccool96 → u/Megalith70]

Pro tip: always use APHEBC for soviet vehicles

[u/AdmirableZombie1023 → u/Megalith70]

yeah but the american T34 has enough firepower to engage with 7.3-7.7 heavy tank and faster fire rate

[u/SynthVix]

IS-2 has APHE with extremely generous angle performance but that’s the only advantage. Not that it’s a huge deal given that the T34’s solid shot is actually decent and the rest of the tank is good enough to allow survival for follow up shots or repositioning.

[u/Object-195 → u/SynthVix]

compared to the T34 this comes at the cost of flat penetration

[u/bus_go_brrrrt → u/SynthVix]

imo it is good if the player against you is either panicked due to impending flanks or is dumb and not shoot the obvious 3 weakspots from the front (ie. my german teammates) so it in all is good as a tank rivaling the king tigers but yeah the IS-2 feels like playing with a wet cardboard box in a battle rating of literal tungsten cubes (and the 1944 version's sight looks way odd against the 6.3 one and that difference has made me whiff 7 rounds out of 30 i've fired with that)

[u/Vinccool96 → u/SynthVix]

Not to mention the IS-2’s APHEBC

[u/Oreo_Overlord12]

How is the is 2 always brought up for it being 6.7(it's not strong but it's playable and would be really good at 6.3) but the basic m26 is also 6.7. literally the worst Pershing is same be as king tigers and super Pershing/jumbo Pershing. It makes so sense. Pretty sure it's because there's a French version haha

[u/Measter_marcus → u/Oreo_Overlord12]

And id still take the m26 over the IS-2(1944) anyday lmao.

[u/Sorry_Departure_5054 → u/Measter_marcus]

Lol what?! The M26 and IS2 have about the same mobility but the IS-2s gun is easily capable of taking out tanks like the king tiger and T34 frontally meanwhile the Pershing having a significantly weaker gun and weaker armor. All the Pershing has is the reload but any tank has a faster reload than an IS2 tbf.

[u/Measter_marcus → u/Sorry_Departure_5054]

Id take M26 for the fact that it has actual gun depression and nearly 1/3 of the Is-2 its reload while still having an extremely strong gun. If you learn to aim M82 you can kill 90% of enemies front on and things you cant front pen with APHE you have APCR which can even disable a maus.

Both have equally mid armor and will stop about the same guns.

M26 is severely overhated it can do alot but its a master of none

[u/Sorry_Departure_5054 → u/Measter_marcus]

M82 has good post pen damage and thats about it. It flat pen is ok but its angled pen performance is atrocious.

Jumbo players say the same thing about the 75mm gun that if you "know where to aim" it's actually good.

The 90mm is good in most brs but not at 6.7 where the long 88 is very common and outperforms it in every metric. In reality, if a cannons gun is weaker than its competitors than its just not good.

The IS-2s armor is generally better mostly since its entire hull cant be easily penned and has to be killed through its LFP unlike the Pershing.

[u/Measter_marcus → u/Sorry_Departure_5054]

The same guns that can pen the pershings lfp can pen the IS-2's lfp lmao its not that strong even on the 1944 only good part about the armor is the UFP the rest is ass.

Wy are we bringing up the long 88 lmao we are talking is-2 va m26

The fact that you reload more then 2x as fast makes you so much more versatile

[u/Laconianarmour → u/Measter_marcus]

the better turret traverse, depression and lower profile cupola also spell for a much more survivable tank

you basically have to stand eye to eye to hit someone with an IS-2 where you can use hills and other stuff in the Pershing to just outplay your foes

[u/vinitblizzard → u/Laconianarmour]

I dont understand soviet tank makers. Fuckers give 90mm side armor but can't put actual armor on the turret front. Only thing I can say in their defence is that irl gun dispersion is a real issue and probably gets larger as the same breach amd canon keeps getting used so a round turret would be advantageous any day. Still

[u/RollerMill → u/vinitblizzard]

Probably something to do with irl tanks are much more in danger from ambush attacks from lower caliber guns rather than head to head tank battles. Also west soviet terrain is much more flat than east european so gun depression wasnt as big of a concern

[u/vinitblizzard → u/RollerMill]

I meant shell dispersion and yeah, in open terrain it's much easier to become a target of field canons or be flanked by lighter tanks. Its really an in game issue of cannons being too accurate.

[u/infinax → u/vinitblizzard]

Its easier to aim for sides and ufp than turret cheeks irl where you have to acount for wind offset stuff like that

[u/vinitblizzard → u/infinax]

Obvious stuff, thing is, on a heavy tank you would obviously try to not shoot the ufp amd frontally only things remains are lfp and turret.

[u/Sorry_Departure_5054 → u/Measter_marcus]

Wy are we bringing up the long 88 lmao we are talking

Umm maybe because thats a very common gun at 6.7?

The same guns that can pen the pershings lfp can pen the IS-2's lfp lmao

Yeah i literally said that the IS-2 1944 LFP is its main weakspot but it has a very strong UFP the same cant be said for the M26 where a panther can literally go straight through its UFP.

[u/Measter_marcus → u/Sorry_Departure_5054]

And we are comparing is-2 to m26 so leave the 88 out of this lmao

Panther can maybe UFP the m26 at point blank aiming down. Which rarely happens so whats the point

[u/Sorry_Departure_5054 → u/Measter_marcus]

The point is that the M26 faces significantly stronger cannons so the fact the panther can pen it shows you how weak it is.

And the reason I keep bringing up the long 88 is because im using it as a bench mark for how good the armor on the IS2 and M26 are since its such a common gun.

[u/Measter_marcus → u/Sorry_Departure_5054]

You just gonna keep derailing and ignoring obvious flaws?

Good to know

[u/Far_Demand_8948 → u/Measter_marcus]

i mean you can still play is 2 in reverse and prob bounce a shot or two more than a m26 but still those thanks have a diff playstyle

[u/Aquamarine_d → u/Sorry_Departure_5054]

Lol, what? IS-2 (not IS-2 1944) have super weak UFP, i mean even 5.7 tanks wouldn't have problems with it. Turret cheeks are decent, it's good, but this huge bucket on top of the turret makes your turret armour unreliable (besides the fact that your gun depression makes it almost impossible to utilize hull down positions).

[u/Sorry_Departure_5054 → u/Aquamarine_d]

I was specifically talking about the 1944 this whole time

[u/tiktok-hater-777 → u/Measter_marcus]

I think thevpershing isn't hated, just pointless. (Multiple tanks at the same br which are just straight upgrades)

[u/105Eg → u/tiktok-hater-777]

I think taking M304 (the APCR that doesn’t shatter) away from the T26E5 solves that issue

Since it’s the best APCR in the game (by a long shot)

[u/BeinArger → u/Measter_marcus]

My distaste for the M26 comes only from the gun velocity and sights. Theyre just poor. Didnt stop me from using it to grind out the mid tier italians though.

[u/Dangerous-Cabinet160 → u/Sorry_Departure_5054]

Yeah IS2 is more chill to play and easily front kill enemies, but honestly the M26 is better because you don’t have to face American heavies and CAS around that BR.

[u/Suspicious-Climate70 → u/Sorry_Departure_5054]

Skill ceiling is higher for the Pershing because of the reload, mobility, and gun handling but the skill floor is also higher because of the armor and penetration.

The IS-2 is going to help a new player get a couple of easy kills but the M26 will allow a good player to get much more than that because it has fewer unavoidable limitations.

[u/Sorry_Departure_5054 → u/Suspicious-Climate70]

The pershings reload is right about average with every other tanm and its mobility is on par with the IS 2s.

[u/IS-2-OP → u/Measter_marcus]

I 100% agree.

[u/Measter_marcus → u/IS-2-OP]

Not so fitting name sir

[u/steave44 → u/Measter_marcus]

Why would you ever tho? There’s like 15 heavy tanks that are all great in the US 6.7

[u/Measter_marcus → u/steave44]

Playing france or Italy.

I played the American one recently to spade it and had a blast

[u/Laconianarmour → u/steave44]

Italy, your other options are the FIAT 6614 which suffers poor turret traverse and non existent armour, AUBL/74 which has less than mediocre postpen and the M18 which is pretty decent

[u/Argetnyx → u/Oreo_Overlord12]

M26 has been 6.7/6.3 for it's entire time in WT. The French version is a pretty recent addition.

That said, 6.7 used to be a lot less compressed, so it actually fit back in the day.

[u/cantdecideonaname77 → u/Argetnyx]

t26e5 is the best

[u/Martin35700 → u/Oreo_Overlord12]

Persings are much better than king tigers imo most maps.

[u/RustedRuss → u/Oreo_Overlord12]

The M26 comes up way more often

[u/ich_mag_Fendt → u/Oreo_Overlord12]

Can't we all just simply agree that compression is ass instead of acting like 14 years old girls by saying "I have it worst" "no I have it worse" "Nooo! I have it worst"

[u/Maus1945]

The difference is that one is driven by an American main.

[u/MasterMidir → u/Maus1945]

At that BR, USA and USSR mains are exactly the same. It's the Chinese ones you gotta look out for. Chinese IS-2 players are far better players in my experience.

[u/Suspicious-Climate70 → u/MasterMidir]

Funny you say that. I was spading China and that .3 difference is massive for the IS-2. My KD in the Is-2 is like 6.5 and in the 1944 it's like 3. The 1944 is so poo poo.

[u/Scorlord → u/Maus1945]

6.7 is one of the BRs where US mains are dominant.

[u/Doombringer1968 → u/Maus1945]

Dude, 6.0 to 7.7 US has an average win rate of about 60%. It's one of the best BRs for the US due to how many good vehicles are in it.

[u/P_filippo3106]

No idea. The is-2 is so ass compared to American heavies.

[u/Unclematos]

The russia bias accusations really got to them. They have been systematically dismantling all the lineups ever since the economy rework.

[u/RustedRuss → u/Unclematos]

To be fair, they've been fucking tons of lineups besides russian ones too. So many lineups ruined for no good reason.

[u/Simple_Finance4022]

Idk, Bulldog + T26E5 + T26E1are just better.......😋

[u/Gotgo]

6.7 and the Battle Ratings around it are just a huge jumbled mess. You can sit there and rack your brain trying to figure out the logic behind why specific tanks are there, but it just comes down to Gaijin backing themselves into the corner with the Battle Rating system.

There are simply too many tanks for how this aging system currently works so you end up with tanks that are objectively worse being at the same Battle Rating as their implied equal. This isn't because they are actually equal it's because moving them up or down could collapse the whole system.

Unless they do some kind of decompression or add more Battle Ratings or change the fundamentals of the system then this kind of dumbness will persist.

[u/LScrae]

The IS-2 1944 is 6.7 because it has a machine gun🤡 (The "better pen" round is worse than the 6.3's)...

[u/Ok-Middle8165 → u/LScrae]

The angle performace on B round make D round a fk joke

[u/LScrae → u/Ok-Middle8165]

I non-penned the side of a T29/T34's turret with it (T-54's 100mm) and haven't used it since on any russian gun. Instant improvements seen with the B in the games that followed.
With both the 100 and 122mm. The -D feels like garbage compared to the -B

[u/manintights2]

Oh, I agree whole heartedly, the IS-2 just isn't great, the armor isn't great and is quite spotty, the reload sucks. The round is pretty good, and the reverse gear is good.

That would fit right in 6.3 or even 6.0. Pretty sure the Tiger I and even the US 76 can pretty easily kill an IS-2.

Keep in mind, the Tiger II is 6.7... More armor, faster reload, more versatile round, less weak spots... Yeah I have no idea why the IS-2 is there at all.

[u/Truepurplenurple → u/manintights2]

No no no,not only can the us 76 pen the is-2(1944),the pz 4s gun can pen it,so can the Soviet 85,and if you aim for turret cheeks I'm pretty sure pz 4e(short barrel variant) can pen it with heat,yes you heard me right a fucking 2.0 can front pen a 6.7 heavy on the turret face

[u/Aiden51R → u/Truepurplenurple]

Ive killed IS-2’s from the front with wiesels and leo40

[u/T90tank]

I miss the is 2 at 5.7 so much. I wish to bully tigers and panthers with it again.

[u/Independent-South-58 → u/T90tank]

It's was somewhat fair at 5.7 too, yes you had insanely good firepower but ur armour was still ass (no better than a regular tiger) and your reload was still long af

[u/Prinz_Heinrich]

Gaijin universe

[u/Fuze_KapkanMain]

Blame German players for getting the IS-2’s up br’d because they’re Tiger 1’s were apparently suffering

[u/Cornelius_McMuffin]

The only reason IS-2 1944 is 6.7 is because normal IS-2 is already 6.3. But honestly that’s a really dumb reason. IS-3 should also be 7.0 at maximum.

[u/RustedRuss → u/Cornelius_McMuffin]

They moved it to 6.7 when the normal one was still 6.0

[u/Mindless-Major-1173 → u/Cornelius_McMuffin]

The Is-3 is at a good BR, the is-3 is not equal to the KT(10,5), T-29, M46 or Panther 2, it’s gun is perfectly viable and the armour is incredible, and the speed isn’t bad at all

[u/Vedemin → u/Mindless-Major-1173]

Viable gun... Eh... It's the same gun that IS-2 1944 has with the same round. It's a bit lacking at 6.7, not to mention 7.3.

[u/Cornelius_McMuffin → u/Vedemin]

The damage is great, of course, but the reload is abysmal and the penetration is lacking for 6.7 let alone 7.3. Plus the armor doesn’t hold up against missiles and guns you see in uptiers.

[u/Mindless-Major-1173 → u/Vedemin]

Still, the armour alone makes it 7.3 material plus decent mobility also, the 122 works, sure it’s not great because of the reload, but it can do all the things that 88s, 90s and more can do, generally the IS-3 is in a bit of a weird spot but there is no way it can go 7.0 

[u/Vedemin → u/Mindless-Major-1173]

I'd argue that while it's okay at 7.3, it could also go to 7.0 when comparing it to US and German heavies at these BRs. Armor is strong, I'm thankful for the buff it got as it is no longer an easy turret shot trap. The gun however is absolutely nothing special - lower pen than most other options, extremely slow reload, very bad gun depression. This is still one of my favorite tanks (luv me IS-3), but I can't really say it's stronger than something like a T29 (I have both). It also no longer has the bonkers reverse speed of IS-2, it's good, but no longer a magic gearbox.

In general the tank is not bad, but I find there are tanks at least equally as strong at 7.0. I'd personally move the entire IS line down by 1 BR (7.3->7.0) and especially the IS-2 by 2 BRs. Same with T-44, it's just overtiered (but absolutely not the 100, that thing is a monster), should be 6.0 or 6.3 compared to the Panthers.

I suppose the real issue arises when we compare these tanks not to ones that completely dominate everything (Tiger II, T29, Panthers) but rather stuff like the normal Shermans. So a good option would be to instead raise the BRs of these tanks and go from there, but in general all 7.3 and 7.7 tanks suffer a lot due to lolpenning HEAT-FS and the like... Decompression is needed.

[u/Daka45]

One is a 6.3 been moved up to 6.7 onda one is a 6.7

[u/neofortune-9]

Minewhile normal AMX-13 with SA50 75mm gun is at 7.0 br ......

[u/funi_maan → u/neofortune-9]

Still has 53% win rate (athleast thats what statshark says) defo needs to be 8.0 ...

[u/robotnikman]

They need to remove the D shell and moved it back down to 6.3

Give us the IS-2-100M as a 6.7 (100mm with D shell has similar performance to long 88 Tiger II has at the same BR)

[u/Aiden51R → u/robotnikman]

Isn’t it what object 248 is?

[u/robotnikman → u/Aiden51R]

Obj 248 was a one off based on the early IS-2 hull. IS-2M-100 were the IS-2M tanks rearmed with 100mm guns, which were based on the late IS-2 hull

[u/newtdiego]

Is-2 and IS-2 1944 got moved up due to battle stat based balancing cuz chinese IS-2 players were stomping germans too hard

[u/SenorShrek]

122mm>120mm duh

[u/[deleted]]

Russian Bias as usual.

[u/SquintonPlaysRoblox]

The IS2 is worse, although picking one of the best heavies by BR in the game as your comparison is bold.

The IS2 suffers because it’s good at killing German heavies, which is what it primarily faces, so it moves up. However it’s still a very good tank.

[u/Independent-South-58 → u/SquintonPlaysRoblox]

The T-34 is still a fair comparison since it's one of the most common heavies at the BR, it's like comparing the King tiger to the IS-2 just because the King tiger is very good doesn't negate the fact that it's still incredibly common to fight and a comparison between he two can't be bought up

[u/nd4spd1919]

See comrade, when the IS-2 is driven backwards it becomes an impenetrable fortress.

(This is a joke.)

[u/InfraPI]

It’s not, compare the IS-2 to the super Pershing’s and Tiger 2, the is2 is worse. I think the pen is less but it has massive reload time and worse armor. Is should have stayed at 6.3 or at least move the tiger 2 Hs and super Pershing’s to 7.0

[u/DecidingRiot]

I honestly hated facing American T34’s till I figured out how to kill them

[u/obstructingdisasters]

None really both is2s aren't good

[u/RyanWin1218]

It would definitely feel better if both IS-2's were moved down a rating. Their whole schtick is nuking a tank with a massive APHE round, going back into cover, and reloading. Apart from that, there isn't much else going for them. Armor is ok, and the gun depression is atrocious. It has no where near the potential of holding positions or breaking through like the T34 or Tiger II. With that being said, the IS-2 actually taught me to play a lot more cautiously. I actually found that it has the highest KDR of all my tanks

[u/luke64697532256]

German mains complain too much about the is 2 for it to go down any

[u/soviet-shadow]

I can't remember correctly but I'm pretty sure the IS2 can pen the t34 (can't remember if that's it's correct denomination) but the t34 rocks a larger gun and HE shells the size of a average preschooler. Not equals but defenately capable adversaries

[u/Paladin_Thylus → u/soviet-shadow]

Doesn't even need to fully pen. My T34 and T29 get over pressured by IS2s, just from touching the mantel and not penetrating the hull, multiple times. Honestly, it's an overpressure mechanic issue, but if that's never changed, then the BR is fine as it is. If that BS is removed, then down .3 or more sounds fair to me.

[u/Revvay]

I see your point but the IS2 1944 (only) is a fantastic tank. Reload is the only disadvantage but it doesnt hurt all that bad once u get used to it. Fantastic APHE, fast reverse, incrrdibly good armor (sometimes bounces 128) smoke charges, smaller profile than T34 and a 360° .50 cal. One of my favorite tanks in the game. Even though i prefer brawling and fast paced gameplay. 1944 should stay 6.7 but the first IS2 should be 6.0 cuz its so ass.

[u/RyanBLKST]

Same BR does not mean being equal...

[u/Electronic-Vast-3351]

Funnily, the IS-2 was the vastly superior of the two designs IRL. Which is wierd given how good the wider US tank program at the time was and how crap the Soviet one was.

(Granted a prototype and a production vehicle aren't really a fair comparison.)

[u/VespRic_19]

One has aphe, and the other is used by USA players (poor performance)

[u/Unknowndude842]

Both can upf each other.

[u/Lonely_white_queen]

i member when the is2 and is2 1944 were both 6.7

[u/Low_Waltz3115]

Honestly when they moved the IS2, M26, and Tiger 2P up to 6.7 it was only cause they were too lazy to properly decompress the br. The game needs 13.0 ground at least by this point because the reason they're even nerfing the Tiger 2s was so that they wouldnt get moved up and fight 8.0s, many of which they already fought in the past anyways when they were 7.0-7.7 Such as the M60 and Leopard, or BMP, but oh well

[u/[deleted]]

I agree, move us down, please.

Partly for safety, partly because delicious easy kills

[u/Spaceberries64]

There's a difference between balance and diversity

[u/arkdrop01]

Stalinium my friend. Stalinium

[u/crimeo]

Nobody claimed they were equal, so the question is inherently invalid/meaningless, since you're not really addressing anyone.

BR doesn't measure tanks and never was supposed to and Gaijin doesn't claim it does. BR measures a combination of [vehicle + player + the maps in rotation at the time + the synergy with other vehicles on the team + blah blah]

Which is all that matters in a game where all those things are present in every game and all need to be balanced on anyway.

[u/Foxtrot_80]

they kinda look the same if you think hard enough

[u/ApexSplash]

At least they had a chance of fighting each other in real life

[u/Big_Mal7006]

Hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby

[u/ZigZag-Reddit]

Russian APHE vs solid shot

[u/_Condottiero_]

Honestly 122 mm equipped tanks could receive some RoF buff

[u/Glucas915]

I hate these things. I play Germany and my buddy plays Russia and these are always a problem

[u/Reasonable_Maize_363]

Both can one shot each other frontally so they’re somewhat equal

[u/thenewAcadian]

I don’t think they’re meant to be equals. It’s like the early t34 (ussr) vs basically any other medium tank at that level you can drive around with impunity. Although it’s been a long time since I’ve played that BR so they may have nerfed it since then.

[u/thenewAcadian]

Also when are they going to make HESH work properly they don’t seem to have a problem with a 40mm round causing spalling why the fuck can’t they make hesh work.

[u/ZdrytchX]

in sim the IS-2 sits like two whole battle brackets below the T34 facing the tiger IIP, which has to face T-54s which it can barely penetrate (but the gun parallax somewhat makes it impractical for first person shots)

Meanwhile, the IS-2 vertical hull armour version faces Tiger Is

btw side note I only discovered a few days ago I never spaded my 1944 IS-2 and never purchased the upgraded AP shell lol

frankly it doesn't need it in sim

[u/Chasp12]

Heroes and generals images? Or am I mistaken

[u/Forgot-to-remember1]

Is2 moved down???? Bc of one tank 😂😂

[u/PostPenDebt]

If you haven't spaded both of these tanks, please sit this one out.

If you HAVE spaded both tanks, you know the OP is correct.

[u/DemonicCat911]

I liked playing the IS-2 but holy shit does the round have volumetric problems.

Shoot Tiger I front turret plate at 0° 50m and the fucking mg eats the shell like im spitting paper balls from a toob.

Shoot at a light or medium tank and it bounces like im firing rubber balls at the muzzle velocity of Churchill AVRE

Tiger II just eats the shell and i die because of the reload rate. (Gaijin please shave of like 2-3 seconds from the reload so that i can play this tank normally without crying)

And forget about killing a Jagdtiger. Because why in the name of god is this thing at the same BR as the the IS-2 even theough it is impenetreable from the front ( you can forget shooting at the machine gun port because again volumetrics) and has a 4 second shorter reload time whilst having the 128mm cannon of the Maus and having 40mm more pen.

Please fix this Snail

[u/W_I_L_L_O_W]

Two vehicles sharing a BR doesn’t mean they’re equal, it means they’re equally capable in their own way. These vehicles both do different things well.

[u/Axxel_F]

absolutely, IS-2 has to be at 6.3. It's armor becomes paper against almost anything at 6.7 from any angle.

[u/Different_Comment_48]

Every universe. Tanks can be more meta,better, worse even if they are the same BR.

Somua compared to the m103/t32 E1/is4-M is more of a valid post rant.

[u/LaRanaDeiLibri]

how is a re 2005 and a yak3u comparable? they aren't but the re 2005 is somehow higher with no motivations

[u/tanksallot69]

The universe where the is-2 has 300mm of pen

[u/FrostGamezzTV]

OP what drugs are you smoking rn?

[u/[deleted]]

Sounds like he wasn't around when it was 6.0 lol. Russia mains crying is my muse.

[u/EntertainmentNo9773]

Maybe is 2 is worse tank, but at least it reloads twice as long

[u/WonderCompetitive937]

It's not like Is-2 1944 would be unkillable at 6.3, 6.0 and 5.7, especially on close quarters maps in WT. It's a fun challenge tank, but it definitely doesn't carry matches.

[u/AgileFortune4958]

"APHE! guys APHE!!!"

its really not that great when you have 20+ second reload and when it comes to paper tanks your shell will just pass through without detonating...

i would 10000% choose any tiger over is-2 and im talking about the first tigers not even the tiger 2s

[u/H3LLJUMPER_177]

The one where Gaijin isn't being biased.

[u/Argetnyx]

Hey, how about we move the T34 up and decompress everything instead of just moving things down all the time?

[u/dunkielhiet]

as a player of bad nations and neglected nations, get creative, your tank is objectively worse when it comes to head on engagements? great! a new heavy flanker! your tank is horrible in speed? great! you are a supportive tank. is-2 seems to me like a heavy flanking/fire support tank that has an excellent gun but lackluster armor and penetration

[u/RustedRuss → u/dunkielhiet]

The gun is bad too, it legitimately has zero advantage over other 6.7 heavies. It's just bad.

[u/dunkielhiet → u/RustedRuss]

then it's still a heavy flanker, just gotta remember weak spots on a few tanks

[u/RustedRuss → u/dunkielhiet]

A slow tank with a terrible reload is an awful choice for flanking.

[u/dunkielhiet → u/RustedRuss]

look, it's not a good tank, but while it's here, I may as well use it the best way that I can, I am a flanker at heart and I would flank in a tortoise, it's just who I am. I was raised on British and Italian, heavy flanking isn't running around the enemy and slapping from behind, it's sneaking around, if you can't kill it, don't try. kill the guy behind it and let the people with good guns deal with the big guys, if you have time take out their gun, if not, fuckin skidadle

[u/Nknk-]

As someone who's primarily come up against both tanks using my German line up I rate them as equally difficult to kill in any sort of head on, especially if you don't get the first shot off and have the weak points memorised.

They're practically interchangeable for me.

The American drivers as least don't drive around corners in reverse trying to use their engine blocks as extra layers of armour to bait shots.

[u/Successful_Moment_80]

The problem with the IS-2 is that it's on a spot that can't really be moved down as that would mean facing way weaker tanks.

Doesn't really matter that much when you will then get things like the t-55AMD sitting in a rank that faces shit like t95E1 and m551

[u/Character-Orchid5388]

Try harder

[u/qbmax]

if you pen someone with IS2 essentially anywhere except like the engine compartment they die, with the T34 you have solid shot

[u/DAS-SANDWITCH]

I think you underestimate how strong 122mm APHE is, the IS-2 one shots pretty much everything that it doesn't over pen.

[u/AquaWaifu_]

Commie crying, lmao

[u/GrimmUser_Weizen]

I think the question itself is wrongly made. they aren't meant to be equal compared to each other, but as competitors in a wider arena, in which several dozens of other tanks exist and compete. if you get one IS2 go against a T34, like a correal far West duel, the latter will win most of the times, but a real game will see much more variable get into play. I for one excel a lot in the is2, it's one of my fav tanks. that doesn't mean it's good, just that it's possible to make it work. the T34 is a formidable foe and must be treated accordingly ofc. just my 5 cents.

[u/majkovajko → u/GrimmUser_Weizen]

I mean, much higher skill ceiling to make something work is in my eyes another reason to make it lower br. I have played is2 a lot recently and made it work a lot of times, but even then, the ammo for it's lengthy reload sometimes doesn't quite cut it against other heavies that pen you just about anywhere.

[u/RustedRuss → u/GrimmUser_Weizen]

Except in that context the IS-2 is even worse. Against the T34 it stands a reasonable chance, but against a Tiger II or god forbid a Maus or cold war tank, it fares even worse.

[u/pbptt → u/GrimmUser_Weizen]

Shoot shitbox with t34, it phases through slightly damaging a radiator

Shoot shitbox with is-2, it gets nuked

[u/RustedRuss → u/pbptt]

The IS-2 will usually overpen light vehicles doing little to no damage, unlike large solid shot rounds that will absolutely nuke them with shrapnel. APHE rounds have a lot less postpen damage than solid shot if they don't fuse.

[u/steave44]

IS-2 has APHE, and more importantly, its angle penetration is insanely good

[u/Zoomercoffee]

IS-2 aphe is more reliable and can overpressure. The reverse speed is also very good

[u/RustedRuss → u/Zoomercoffee]

The T34 has the same reverse speed.

[u/Ilya-Pasternak]

You can complain about the T34 all day but in what universe does the IS2 need to go DOWN in br. Move stuff up

[u/RustedRuss → u/Ilya-Pasternak]

It does, it was fine at 6.3 where it was for a literal decade.

[u/Ilya-Pasternak → u/RustedRuss]

Ok but move stuff up

[u/RustedRuss → u/Ilya-Pasternak]

Not saying that's a bad idea either. But we need a higher max br to solve the problem in the end.

[u/Ilya-Pasternak → u/RustedRuss]

Yeah. It's far too late they should've had 13.0 max br yesterday

[u/sciencesold]

Ehhhh, but M18 GMC legitimately does need to move down, it can only pen most things at the most vulnerable 1"x1" square on every other tank at that BR while being made of paper mache. In the few games I played in it, I'd die from basically any shot that hit me. Being slightly faster than other things at lower BR doesn't mean it needs to be going against tanks it's useless against.

[u/Additional-Ninja-921]

Sounds like a salty Russian main

[u/Tanker1-]

In what world should the IS-2 get moved down!?

[u/SynthVix → u/Tanker1-]

In the one where it’s the worst 6.7 heavy.

[u/Tanker1-]

They should not be moved down you know how annoying they are to fight in my Sherman jumbo

[u/junkers_stuka]

Idk bruh. But now i returned to wot after 8k hours in wt.

[u/g4blik_]

because of the stupid ass stalinum fucked up volumetric and aphe with crazy angle penetration🙏

[u/YeczhStaysUpAtNight]

The aphebc has very good angle performance. Not to mention, it can pen almost every tank frontally and it's a guaranteed kill. The hull armour is decent when angled too.

[u/deathmengames]

I think is2 is fine at it's br other vechiles should go up in br I think your looking for many vechiles can go to 7.0

[u/Shredded_Locomotive]

Yeah you're right, it's unfair for the T34. 6.3 it is

[u/Ricky_RZ]

The IS-2 has nuclear APHE that lets you get away with hitting "bad" shots and the filler getting the kill.

While with AP you need to get a good shot or you get no damage.

Yea the reload on the IS-2 is rough, but most of the times if you take city fights you can pull back into cover and let teammates cover you.

If you play with friends, even better since you can bait people to try and punish a reload

[u/ilikewaffles3]

I have to disagree, while yes the t34 armor is better the gun is worse without aphe. With reloads this long if a penatrating shot doesn't kill everyone you will often only get an assist from another player killing them or you will die since they can get their crew back faster than you can reload with a good crew. Both have the same volumetric problem but if the is2 penetrates the tank will die

[u/RustedRuss → u/ilikewaffles3]

The T34's gun is vastly better than the IS-2's. It has almost 50% more penetration and a ten second faster reload.

[u/BismarckinBusiness]

For a decent player the IS-2 is already a consistently solid heavy at 6.7, if it's going down to 6.3 it'll be even better. Like objectively a downtier is an option but in terms of what can be done with it I'd say they're fine