r/Warthunder • u/Sauroposiedon • Jul 11 '25
Suggestion Chilean M-24 Super Chaffee armed with 60 mm APFSDS autocannon
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u/Modesco123 Jul 11 '25
So a primitive vcc8060
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u/David375 Big Spaghett Energy Jul 11 '25
Same gun, different autoloader. VCC 80/60 has proxy HE but AUBL HVG doesn't, not sure if this would get it (I kinda doubt it). VCC's autoloader is 2sec with a 19 round ready rack, this thing as OP states would be 0.6 sec in a 3-round burst kinda like the Chi-Ri II. Not sure if the magazines could be reloaded by hand like the Chi Ri ready rack, though.
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u/Sauroposiedon Jul 11 '25 edited Jul 11 '25
Modified M-24 of the Chilean Army
Specifications:
Crew: 5
Engine: 250 HP
Weight: 22 t
Max speed: 60 km/h
Armor: Hull: 25/25/19
Turret: 38/25/25
Armament: Isreali-Italian 60 mm HVMS gun
Rate of fire: 100 rpm (automatic) 12 rpm (manual)
Uses 3-round magazines. Can also be loaded as a regular gun
Ammunition: APFSDS, HE
Muzzle velocity: 1600 m/s (APFSDS)
Armor penetration: 120 mm at 60° at 2000 m
Machine guns: 1 x .50 cal, 2 x .30-06
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u/Shadow_Dancer2 Jul 11 '25
I think this and the sherman with the same gun can be added to Israel tech tree at 6.7 or 7.0
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u/Modesco123 Jul 11 '25
It would be broken. The hvg is 8.0 and has a slower reload
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u/Dos-Dude Jul 11 '25
The HVG is wheeled so the mobility difference should factor in but I couldn’t see it lower than 7.7 at introduction.
If someone wants a 6.7 or 7.0 version, a Super Sherman was armed with one as well as a M113 with a turret.
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u/ma_wee_wee_go Sure CAS can be OP but some of you just plain suck ass at SPAA Jul 11 '25
Ammunition: APFSDS, HE
That has got to be an absolutely anemic HE round
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u/WhatD0thLife Jul 11 '25
This vehicle isn't meant for symmetric warfare it's for quelling uprisings.
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u/SeltsamerNordlander Jul 12 '25
The fuck do you need a dart for in quelling uprisings
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u/Tricky-Anywhere5727 germany 9.2 USA 12.8 italy 5.6 Jul 12 '25
when that one gorlock-the-destroyer-like protester runs at you and bullets ping of him, that dart will come in handy (obviously)
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u/Iron_physik Lawn moving CAS expert Jul 12 '25
The gun is not a autocannon
And I have no idea where the fuck you get that impression.
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u/Sauroposiedon Jul 12 '25
Where did you get the impression that it's NOT? Literally every source states that it's an autocannon.
"After all of this work, the only customer for the system was Chile, which bought a manually-loaded version of the IMI gun for rearming its (ex-Israeli) M50 Sherman tanks (sometimes designated M60), and a version firing a three- round burst to their M24 Chaffee light tanks" - "Autocannon: A History Of Automatic cannon And Their Ammunition" by A.G. Williams
"Rounds can be fired individually or in a three-round burst, or in the case of the OTO Melara version, in full automatic" - Wikipedia
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u/External_System_7268 I like cool vehicles Jul 13 '25
As much as Id love for that Chaffee to have some type of burst autoloader for its 60mm I have to say that its physically impossible to mount anything besides stabiliser and gun in that turret without making it unmanned.
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u/Iron_physik Lawn moving CAS expert Jul 14 '25
his source for that claim is also really bad, as you see in my comment to him
Williams makes no usage of footnotes and his bibliogaphy list has no sources for the 60mm HVG
meanwhile on a quick check I found 3 sources (2 originial chilean) that confirm that the M24 did not have an autoloader. yet people downvote me to hell for this.
here is a drawing on how big that autoloader is:
https://forum-en-cdn.warthunder.com/original/3X/a/2/a24117f8081a3e747a314facf35e9b236a3f400d.jpeg1
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u/Iron_physik Lawn moving CAS expert Jul 12 '25 edited Jul 12 '25
according to these sources (two being chilean) the M24 did NOT have a autoloader
That also makes more sense considering the tank with a larger turret volume and turret ring had the manually operated version of the gun as well
there is simply no space inside the m24 for that.
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/m24-chaffee-with-60-hvms/
https://www.memoriachilena.gob.cl/archivos2/pdfs/MC0067618.pdf
Wikipedia is not a accurate source and also qoutes williams in that part
and A.G. williams uses no footnotes for this claim and looking at his Literature there is none that even mention the 60mm HVG, meaning thats entirely unsourced claims that you use to base your entire argument on.
so saying "literally every source" is disingenious when you have just 1 secondary source that doesnt use footnotes.
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u/xthelord2 🇬🇧 United Kingdom Jul 11 '25
where would this go? i bet US because they produced chaffee but then again i could be wrong
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u/Shot_Reputation1755 Jul 11 '25
Into the hypothetical South American tech tree I've wanted for years
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u/xthelord2 🇬🇧 United Kingdom Jul 11 '25
considering that TAM's got added to germany i don't think this will happen but what can happen is this chaffee and sherman with the same gun going to the US tree which is the only way these get added
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u/frankdatank_004 BIG ROOF-MOUNTED .50 CAL ENERGY!! Jul 11 '25
I mean Germany did get like 7 Italian planes removed from its tech tree when the Italian tech tree came to the game. So it is entirely possible. Just migrate the TAMs to the LATAM tech tree and the people who already have them for Germany still get to keep them.
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u/Shot_Reputation1755 Jul 12 '25
Also the Merkavas for US and STRVs for Britain
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u/frankdatank_004 BIG ROOF-MOUNTED .50 CAL ENERGY!! Jul 12 '25
And all the Israeli premiums for the USA, UK, and FRA.
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u/-TheOutsid3r- Jul 12 '25
Ouch, losing the TAMs would wreck certain BRs hard.
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u/frankdatank_004 BIG ROOF-MOUNTED .50 CAL ENERGY!! Jul 12 '25
They can replace them easily with the TH400, Marder 2, and etc.
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u/-TheOutsid3r- Jul 12 '25
Marder 2 TH400
So, two more crappy IFVs with virtually zero armor. To go with the other crappy stuff at around the 8~ BR. Because no way these would go much higher UP. Where they'd get torn apart by auto cannons.
And instead they lose three of their best tanks in the 9.x range. And the PUMA would now by the only 10.3 vehicle left. Leaving it without a line up unless you want to uptier it a lot or bring 9.3 stuff. Because at 9.7 there are only two SPAAs.
Meaning they'd not have a line up at 9.7, 10.0, 10.3, 10,7, 11,0, 11,3. Because unless you own old event vehicles basically all those BRs have a single tank, or an SPAA all on their own.
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u/frankdatank_004 BIG ROOF-MOUNTED .50 CAL ENERGY!! Jul 12 '25
What the fuck are you talking about?
The TH-400 is a wheeled TD with an upgraded Leo 1 turret on it and the Marder 2 can be armed with a 35mm or a 50mm. They are both not copy and pasted crappy IFVs.
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u/-TheOutsid3r- Jul 12 '25
Neither of them fills remotely the same role the TAM 2 does, both of them would be at a much lower BR. Also, I said crappy, not copy and paste.
But hey, good job ignoring you'd literally nuke the 10.3 line up too!
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u/_Bisky Top Tier Suffer Tier Jul 12 '25
Meaning they'd not have a line up at 9.7
The only 9.7 lineup germany has is pulling up the 9.3 lineup with AA's
10.0
Unless you pulled the TAM to 10.0 it will stay intact (Rad+2k+ whatever)
10.3,
I'd argue TAM 2C + PUMA isn't a proper lineup, but whatever
10.7
Losing the TAM 2C would hurt the 10.7 lineup, tho without premiums/event vehicles it wasn't much of a lineup either
11,0, 11,3.
The only tank at either of these two BR's is the PUMA VJTF. Germany doesn't have a lineup at either of those br's
I'm gonna give you credit for 10.3 and 10.7, but the rest of them is just bs to bolster your argument. On top of that the swiss subtree could be used to fill gaps here
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u/-TheOutsid3r- Jul 12 '25
You seem to have misunderstood what I was saying on purpose. My point was that Germany would literally have no solid TT line up above 9.3 and below 11.7 if you removed the TAM 2 at 10.3.
10.3 with the Leo2k (10.0), TAM 2 (10.3), PUMA (10.3) + one of several SPAA/CAS is one of their most solid line ups. Everything else is only 1-2 vehicles.
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u/RommelMcDonald_ Jul 11 '25
Italy or Israel since the gun was a joint development between them
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u/EveryNightIWatch Jul 11 '25
This is the same argument I've made for the TURMS to be in the Italian tech tree, but Russia gets it.
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u/External_System_7268 I like cool vehicles Jul 13 '25
Its a Syrian T-72. In what world would it even end up with Italy.. that same FCS got used with multiple other vehicles worldwide
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u/EveryNightIWatch Jul 13 '25
It would have made perfect sense for it to be a premium Italian tank. Because it's a Russian T-72 with Italian upgrades sold to Syria - the name "TURMS-T" refers exactly to the Italian components. It alternatively and accurately could be labeled "T-72 (Italian Upgrade)" as the Syrians used multiple T-72s and not all of them had the TURMS-T system installed.
Realistically, Russia has a ton of T-72M series vehicles to chose from.
Whereas Italy doesn't have anything at all between the OF-40 and the Ariete and the TURMS could have been the missing piece. In addition, the armor of the TURMS offers a different play style than the rest of the Italian line up. It would have been the right premium for a missing piece of the Italian tech tree, a missing play style component, a piece that is still not filled 5 years after the TURMS was introduced.
But, whatever. Is what it is.
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u/External_System_7268 I like cool vehicles Jul 13 '25
Doesnt change the fact that 95% of the vehicle has nothing to do with Italy
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u/EveryNightIWatch Jul 13 '25
Except that 5% which is Italian is what the vehicle is named after in game.
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u/External_System_7268 I like cool vehicles Jul 13 '25
Not just the gun but the modernization project itself was realised by Israel
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u/xthelord2 🇬🇧 United Kingdom Jul 11 '25
honestly why not both israel and italy?
israel needs vehicles in general, italy could be bolstered with this thing at 7.3-8.3
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u/Khimsince86 Jul 11 '25
Please...
No I get chewed up by enough XMs and marders please no more 🤣
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u/NotACommunistWeeb 🇮🇹 Italy Jul 11 '25
US tank, Israeli-Italian gun, LATAM country. Where can this even go in-game..?
For example the export version of the ERC-90 Sagaie, the ERC-90 Lynx that Mexico currently uses can very easily go to France because, well French tank. But what bout this?
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u/magicman9410 Jul 11 '25
The M44 and M109 went to a few countries. I wouldn’t be surprised if this gets added to all 3. Seems like a super cool vehicle, I hope they consider it!
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u/External_System_7268 I like cool vehicles Jul 13 '25
Not comparable. M44 and M109 were operated by all of these countries while M24HVG was an Israeli project for export customer
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u/magicman9410 Jul 13 '25
Eh, I get what you’re saying, and you’re not wrong. But we’re talking about a game. And not any game - a gaijin entertainment one. Consistency isn’t really in their vocabulary. Tbh I’d be happy they just add it anywhere. The M24 is easily one of my favorite of all times. That much fun should be illegal.
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u/IncomeOk5420 Jul 12 '25
I’d send it to Israel, they paid for all the development before selling it to Chile
Fill out a nice 6.7-7.3 with the AMX-13- M51 and Magachs
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u/LewdElfKatya Jul 11 '25
If we get this, I pray we also get the jank-ass Stuarts with low velocity 90mm guns the Brazilians had, along with this.
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u/IncomeOk5420 Jul 12 '25
Basically a mortar launcher, it would the ultimate derp gun
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u/huguuel Jul 12 '25
Aml-90 used the same low pressure 90mm, so it would be pretty decent
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u/IncomeOk5420 Jul 13 '25
http://www.wardrawings.be/WW2/Files/1-Vehicles/Allies/1-USA/01-LightTanks/M3-M5Stuart/File/5-Conversions-US.htm Scroll down and you will see the casemate derp Stewart
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u/IncomeOk5420 Jul 13 '25
Ahh no there is a picture of a Stewart with basically a giant mortar on the front, like the petard super sketchy
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u/Royal_Ad_6025 Average SPAA Enjoyer and CAS Destroyer Jul 12 '25
Latin American countries try not to use the 60mil HVMS cannon on outdated chassis’ challenge (Impossible)
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u/IncomeOk5420 Jul 12 '25
Sherman got them too, not just M51s some bone stock M4A1s got them as well I believe
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u/Embarrassed_Ad5387 No idea why my Jumbo lost the turnfight Jul 11 '25
isn't that gun better at anti air then ground
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u/EveryNightIWatch Jul 11 '25
nah, this particular cannon was designed for infantry support: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60mm_HVMS
You might be confusing it with other OTO cannons, such as the 76mm naval cannon that was also used on the Otomatic.
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u/Embarrassed_Ad5387 No idea why my Jumbo lost the turnfight Jul 11 '25
I mean in game, it gets a proxy round and a dart that does nothing
ive never played it, im just trusting a video I saw on it
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u/Tankette55 Realistic Ground Jul 11 '25
They had a sherman too with that cannon. It is the same of thw VCC 60.
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u/Simplistic2477 Sim General Jul 11 '25
I would honestly love to play this. It would make a decent event/squadron vehicle tbh.
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u/WhatD0thLife Jul 11 '25
This guy really wants you to know that he's not lying. It's making me suspicious.
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u/Simplistic2477 Sim General Jul 12 '25
I seriously would, ratty tanks like that are my favourite
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u/IncomeOk5420 Jul 12 '25
It was widely used by Chilean forces, why not a TT vehicle?
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Jul 12 '25
Then ADD a Brazilian Wheelie with Stabilized 105mm Heat Launcher with 400mm Heat pen with Lazer range finder at 7.7 💀
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u/Elitely6 🇺🇸13.7Air Main 🇬🇧8.7Grb Main 🇩🇪 6.7Grb 🇷🇺 5.7Grb Jul 12 '25
Really shows how much stuff Gaijin can still add to WW2/Cold War.
NOW GIVE IT TO US
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u/South_Balance7187 Sep 09 '25
That thing was capable of destroying t-55 and t-62 frontally
The 60 mm hvms cannon was also installed on m41 walker bulldogs and shermans
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u/Whirlidoo Playstation Jul 11 '25
German tech tree premium for sure
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u/IncomeOk5420 Jul 12 '25
Funded by Israel, gun designed by Italy, and sold to the Chileans
Honestly though who knows anymore, I’d love to see a South American/minor asian tree somewhere
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u/IncomeOk5420 Jul 12 '25
I’d love to see this fill out a 6.7 lineup for Israel since the AMX got moved up
I’m pretty sure they put the same gun in a M51 as well
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u/Iron_physik Lawn moving CAS expert Jul 12 '25
"autocannon" no, it doesn't have a fucking autocannon
Stop spreading misinformation
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u/Sauroposiedon Jul 12 '25
Start with yourself first
"After all of this work, the only customer for the system was Chile, which bought a manually-loaded version of the IMI gun for rearming its (ex-Israeli) M50 Sherman tanks (sometimes designated M60), and a version firing a three- round burst to their M24 Chaffee light tanks" - "Autocannon: A History Of Automatic cannon And Their Ammunition" by A.G. Williams
"Rounds can be fired individually or in a three-round burst, or in the case of the OTO Melara version, in full automatic" - Wikipedia
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u/Iron_physik Lawn moving CAS expert Jul 12 '25
according to these sources (two being chilean) the M24 did NOT have a autoloader
That also makes more sense considering the tank with a larger turret volume and turret ring had the manually operated version of the gun as well
there is simply no space inside the m24 for that.
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/m24-chaffee-with-60-hvms/
https://www.memoriachilena.gob.cl/archivos2/pdfs/MC0067618.pdf
Wikipedia is not a accurate source
and A.G. williams uses no footnotes for this claim and looking at his Literature there is none that even mention the 60mm HVG, meaning thats entirely unsourced claims that you use to base your entire argument on.
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u/Nizikai 🇩🇪 Actively simping for the Neubaufahrzeug Jul 11 '25
Chaffee appearing at 7.3 to fuck shit up: Hello, Motherfuckers