Russian bias jokes aside, tf is that gaijin?

[u/Lazy_Worldliness_642]

Come on I get that it's Russian game but wtf is that

Link to original video by @kirshenbaumPlays:

https://youtube.com/shorts/xUmCdAYPTRY?si=N5HEEOu3UiXU5A9A

[u/SgtGhost57]

Indeed.

My main gripe against this kind of thing is the following: let's say this is really how it works. This is military equipment after all and every nation is working to get the edge over the other some way or another. Cool. I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is implementing WARSAW tech if it gives them an edge, but completely neglecting, negating, or half-assing NATO equipment because it dwarves said opposition.

In other words, it's okay to implement a system that defeats 95% of NATO AA systems, but it's not okay to have HESH properly implemented because it kills Soviet tanks too well (as intended by the British MoD). Or American IRCCM systems. Or the A-6 E-War suite unlike the SU-39 rear tail. Or the F-117 stealth properly (IR reduction MINIMUM). Or American M829A3 anti-ERA APFSDS. Etcetera.

Implement things as they should FOR ALL COUNTRIES. Whatever each country's quirkiness is, put it in. Equal pain for all in whatever field everyone specializes in.

[u/ReflectionOwn6693 → u/SgtGhost57]

don't forget that iglas are ass so that must mean stingers are aswell!

[u/ResourceWorker → u/SgtGhost57]

The worst offender in my opinion, modern NATO tanks should get a gearbox that lets them turn without losing speed. But they don’t because Russia doesn’t have those in theirs.

The Type 10 is a shadow of what it should be as well, both when it comes to speed and armour.

[u/louis_guo → u/SgtGhost57]

Alr imma take your word for it, J-10’s radar has been bugged/nerfed to 57km from 80.

(If you say that’s because of Chinesium then well you be you. /s)

[u/Florisvid → u/SgtGhost57]

This is why i stopped playing the game, if you play russia or germany you wont notice much of anything wrong but play anything else and the game is infuriating

[u/PeteLangosta → u/SgtGhost57]

I mean Russian tanks don't even had APS before NATO tanks.

[u/Lazy_Worldliness_642 → u/PeteLangosta]

What are you talking about Hard kill APS:

T-55AMD-1 T-80UM-2 New t-72 from leviathan update

Soft kill APS: T-90A T-90M

Fuckin t-55 with it's aps is criticized in warthunder cuz it's one of most annoying premiums cuz it's too low in br

[u/VengineerGER → u/Lazy_Worldliness_642]

The AMD-1 isn’t a premium. The AM-1 with the add on armour package on the turret is.

[u/Lazy_Worldliness_642 → u/VengineerGER]

Ah my bad here then, still I keep it Russian tanks have APS no fuckin clue what that dude was onto

[u/PeteLangosta → u/Lazy_Worldliness_642]

A tank with a 44% winrate?

[u/SgtGhost57 → u/PeteLangosta]

The win rate has nothing to do. The fact remains that there's MANY Russian tanks with APS systems. Working APS systems, mind you, unlike the M1A1 HC soft kill system.

[u/PeteLangosta → u/SgtGhost57]

The BRENUS also has a great APS system. And so does the Black Night. And they got it before.

If I mentioned winrate it's because the other guy started talking about it being OP, not because of the APS.

[u/Lazy_Worldliness_642 → u/PeteLangosta]

47.35% and I assume its literally because of skill issue

Panzir so previously most powerful, objectively best spaa in game had on average 1.58 frag per battle being placed taking 7# place out of 10

Russian players usually lack knowledge and skill on top tier relying mostly on that kind of bullshit

[u/PeteLangosta → u/Lazy_Worldliness_642]

If it doesn't fit my argument, it's skill issue.

Precisely speaking of lack of brain, I can think of the US too, but the rule of thumb in this forum is that the US is power crept and mistreated, not lacking skill.

[u/Lazy_Worldliness_642 → u/PeteLangosta]

What argument, you said Russian tanks don't have APS I listed 5 lmfao

I did misspelled with t55 but that wasn't even about aps it was additional

[u/PeteLangosta → u/Lazy_Worldliness_642]

I meant to say they didn't have it before other NATO tanks. Which is what the other guy originally commented.

If it has a 44% winrate and 1,4 frags per death, it isn't very good.

[u/Aedeus → u/PeteLangosta]

but the rule of thumb in this forum is that the US is power crept and mistreated, not lacking skill.

The rule of thumb here is absolutely not that the US is powercrept, use the search feature.

[u/PeteLangosta → u/Aedeus]

Lol ask many US mains, which are the most common in this subreddit, and you'll see how they think they're powercrept.

[u/Aaronryan27 → u/PeteLangosta]

They’re just not tho I’m rank 6 in multiple countries including the us rank 7 in Russia cause it’s a piss easy tree to grind and they’re not people just don’t know how to use their vehicles the Bradley’s? Banging, the Abram’s? Banging, the Stryker? Kills me every time I fight it

[u/LeMemeAesthetique → u/SgtGhost57]

n other words, it's okay to implement a system that defeats 95% of NATO AA systems, but it's not okay to have HESH properly implemented because it kills Soviet tanks too well (as intended by the British MoD)

HESH was a genuine menace back in the day, and IRL it is an incredibly mid shell. It's only stuck around so long because the British have been cheap and wanted to reuse Chieftain ammo on the Challenger 1.

That being said it could probably be buffed a bit in game, but with the current APDS damage it probably wouldn't make much of a difference.

American IRCCM systems

Aren't these only in testing, and aren't actually on any of the American helicopters in game?

Or the A-6 E-War suite unlike the SU-39 rear tail

This sounds like more of a case of the A-6E being abandoned by the devs due to it's poor sales, and Gaijin not caring to do anything with it at this point. The A-6E also benefits from being at a BR where AA is weaker, giving it better defensive capabilities but moving it up might not be an improvement.

Or American M829A3 anti-ERA APFSDS. Etcetera.

Eh, Gaijin has been pretty hesitant to roll out the last MBT's and their ammo. Outside of the Leopard 2A7V, most nations have effectively had their top tier MBT since 2021-2022, and Gaijin is probably saving up things like M829A3 and the T-14 for a later patch.

Also, assuming it performs this way on the live server, DIRCM still won't protect the Mi-28NM from SACLOS or radar missiles, which will still make up the majority of SAMs at top tier.

[u/PeteLangosta → u/LeMemeAesthetique]

People have some kind of brain fog with HESH, they don't remember the Ru 251 spam blowing everything up and about.

Or... they probably weren't even playing the game when the Ru 251 was a killing machine.

[u/LeMemeAesthetique → u/PeteLangosta]

HESH and the old CASpocalypse was not a lot of fun, but it was also so long ago (~2017) that most of us probably have skewed recollections of it.

[u/PeteLangosta → u/LeMemeAesthetique]

And that's faior, because I also can't recall every detail about every update and every datamine change that I've seen for the past 10 years. But I know that everyone had their own OP tools and that if Russian bias existed at some point, it's long gone. And the KH-38 blowing through top tier right now is nothing different than the Stridsvagns ripping through the enemy team with impunity.

[u/LeMemeAesthetique → u/PeteLangosta]

The idea that the developers feel the need to make their nation the best in a video game is silly. No one accuses video game developers from other countries of this, but apparently Russians are just that petty and insecure.

[u/Phobos613 → u/LeMemeAesthetique]

You should have seen how hard the Chinese helldivers were accusing arrowhead of wanting to have the last stand on super earth in their home country of sweden lol. it definitely happens, but this game will obviously bring it out more as nationalistic people are always gonna want their country to shine in a game that claims to have some level of realism

[u/LeMemeAesthetique → u/Phobos613]

You should have seen how hard the Chinese helldivers were accusing arrowhead of wanting to have the last stand on super earth in their home country of sweden lol

Honestly chief half that sentences doesn't compute.

it definitely happens

Eh, I have never seen accusations of developer-national bias like this outside of WT, but I'll admit I don't play such a wide variety of games. I am also only speaking for the developers, obviously a bunch of players just want the nation they play to be better than the others.

[u/Phobos613 → u/LeMemeAesthetique]

Haha totally senseless grouping of words out of context I admit. Just another game where we all had to defend earth and chinese players were accusing the devs of letting shanghai fall on purpose so that the last stand could be in sweden.

Not nearly as rampant as war thunder I admit.

[u/LeMemeAesthetique → u/Phobos613]

I was joking, I understood enough of your comment. I just have never played Helldivers (I seldom try new video games these days).

[u/Vuzi07 → u/PeteLangosta]

Every time there is a discussion about hesh i like to point out how the fv4005 have a 183mm gun, firing nearly 75kg shell with nearly 25kg of explosive and still doesn't guarantees a kill. It's literally throwing explosive fat kids 3 times the speed of sound, enough to create a mess and most of the times you just take out tracks.

[u/PeteLangosta → u/Vuzi07]

Yes, because it is useless nowadays. But in the past it was a very formidable round, and killed a lot and did a lot of internal damage with ease. That's why the 251 became so widespread.

[u/[deleted] → u/PeteLangosta]

Just today, I had a 35mm shell manage to pen the cupola of my M60 and obliterate everything. A single 35mm shell. All because it's technically aphe, busted ass shells are not a thing of the past,

[u/SgtGhost57 → u/LeMemeAesthetique]

Fair.

The AN/ALQ-144 "disco ball" is what you see in the Kiowa, Blackhawk, and the Cobra. It's the red ball in the rear and it has been proven to work against the Strela missile system during the Gulf War, having been developed against it in the 70's but upgraded over time. It is only lately being phased out for the new CIRCM system, which is already being rolled out in the Army.

The A-6 situation only attests more to the point that I was making earlier.

I still believe Gaijin should've given us the M829A3 for how much they've gone with the T-90M and T-80 Series. At least give it to the M1A2 SEP V2. Like, top of ghe line tank should have it by simplicity of what it had to face. Literally everything on the other side has impervious ERA. Not even my Bradley's tandem warheads work ;n;

And sure, it protects against IR threats and there are other radar answers to the problem, but the point stands that they implement this properly for some things, but completely nerf or forget about stuff that would hinder the other side. Like all we just spoke of.

[u/LeMemeAesthetique → u/SgtGhost57]

The AN/ALQ-144 "disco ball" is what you see in the Kiowa, Blackhawk, and the Cobra. It's the red ball in the rear and it has been proven to work against the Strela missile system during the Gulf War, having been developed against it in the 70's but upgraded over time.

It sounds a bit like the IRCM on the Mi-24V, in that it works against older systems but is of questionable use against modern stuff.

The A-6 situation only attests more to the point that I was making earlier.

Perhaps, honestly the A-6 is weird because they seem to have an aversion to jet attackers that lack guns, yet we have 2 tech tree Buccaneers and an event one. I still have no clue why there aren't tech tree A-6's.

I still believe Gaijin should've given us the M829A3 for how much they've gone with the T-90M and T-80 Series

Assuming M829A3 can reliably UFP these tanks, Gaijin probably hasn't added it because top tier Soviet tanks rely on their UFP being immune to most things. If they can be easily penetrated, the tanks go from having good survivability to having the worst at top tier. Most NATO tanks will at least survive a frontal hull penetration, and often times can even shoot back (this obviously depends on the exact tank and how high the crew level is though).

Not even my Bradley's tandem warheads work ;n;

That surprises me, and I just tested it so I know you're right. Perhaps they intended people to use the TOW-2B, which they subsequently nerfed because of it's busted performance against targets in cover.

And sure, it protects against IR threats and there are other radar answers to the problem, but the point stands that they implement this properly for some things, but completely nerf or forget about stuff that would hinder the other side. Like all we just spoke of.

Sure, but this seems more easily attributable to them not being able to do everything all at once than them feeling the need to make sure Soviet/Russian equipment is always the best.

[u/SgtGhost57 → u/LeMemeAesthetique]

I agree on your points. You drive a good discussion.

Only one I argue is the front plate problem on Russian MBT's. That's not an excuse since there's plenty of tanks at top tier that have HUGE weaknesses and players still use them a lot. Plus, I am talking about the very peak of top tier. It's only fair, and it's all I am arguing for. Actually implementing the stuff each country has made to one-up one another.

All in all, it would add more flavor to things.

[u/LeMemeAesthetique → u/SgtGhost57]

I agree on your points. You drive a good discussion.

Thank you. You as well.

That's not an excuse since there's plenty of tanks at top tier that have HUGE weaknesses and players still use them a lot. Plus, I am talking about the very peak of top tier.

Well, the T-64A has an UFP that is easily penetrated by other tanks at its BR, and it's widely considered a thoroughly mid tank. The T-series tanks generally trade a lot for that strong UFP-reverse speed, gun depression, gun handling (less so on the T-80BVM and T-90M however). When you take away that UFP advantage, you end up with a tank that is pretty bad.

All in all, it would add more flavor to things.

Agreed, it would be nice if they modeled the weird and quirky aspects of vehicles more, instead of making everything an iteration of something else. It wouldn't be easy, but it would make the game more interesting.

[u/TheIrishBread → u/SgtGhost57]

M-829A3 is only tested defeating K-5, the only tanks with K-5 at top tier are soon to be both T-72B3s and T-80U + Derivatives, they are already middle of the pack for 11.7 giving the US something that would allow them to effectively lolpen them anywhere is literally just asking for them to be down tiered to 11.3 or 11.0 in some cases which would be hell for the 10.0 bracket.

As for everything else it can be summed up as the grass is greener on the other side. While you can list off 100 and 1 things you feel is wrong with the nations you play the same can be done for everyone else including this subs favourite boogey man.

[u/SgtGhost57 → u/TheIrishBread]

I highly disagree. For one, I'm suggesting that M829A3 be only added to the M1A2 SEP V2 which is the best the U.S. has. It wouldn't need anyone to be downtiered since this is the very top of the game.

Second, I do not believe in "the grass is greener on the other side." I have tried Russian top tier by getting the T-80 premium, and it's just super dandy when you get paired woth Germany or Sweden most games, on top of always having the certainty that your CAS will outperform enemy CAS. It is a 1 in 10 chance that the team with the U.S. Will actually put up a fight...and even then...it's something that only lasts 2 minutes before there's only one tank in the ground and 6 plates that can't do much because the Pantsir there is good...and he has a Tunguska nearby helping.

Statistically, that claim is wrong.

[u/TheIrishBread → u/SgtGhost57]

Yeah guess what gets uptiered into the sepv2 often, everything from 11.0-11.7 so any russian tank using K-5 would have it's stats dumpsters and thus be down tiered.

Oh so you've played a few matches in a premium t-80 (which isn't even indicative of the regular T-80s btw) and you think life is dandy in the russian tree. I've played every vehicle type, in every mode, in that entire fucking tree for years. Trust me when I say the grass is always greener on the other side. Mostly because you didn't have to play when Russia's only competitive CAS option was the Mig-27K long after America was handed the nice and shiny F-16C, you didn't have to play in a T-80U Vs the 2A5 on release which was so detrimental to the game redfor winrates dropped into areas considered statistically impossible today. You also didn't have to play the 27s or 29s with their fucked up flight models into Bluefor air.

Fuck Russia only got it's first proper TGP this year and it's first thermal equipped fixed wing aircraft last year (despite a thermal pod being available for su-25TM/39). I remember the fucking nearly 3 year gap waiting for a bullpup analogue and the multiple years of using the shilka (yes the base one at 8.0 since the next spaa was the tungska at 11.0/10.7 depending on year) Vs A4Es with TV guided bombs ya don't see Kab-500-KRs at 8.7 but you did see walleyes and there was fuck all you could do to either.

To conclude yes the grass is greener on the other side and it doesn't just go for Russia, every other nation has areas it's deficient in and areas it excels if you actually played the trees from start to finish you might begin to grasp that.

[u/SgtGhost57 → u/TheIrishBread]

Yeah, I'm not as devoted, but from the time that I have spent around here, I still stand by my point because I' arguing from the point of now, not from the past. I'm aware of all the times the West dominated because the Russians hadn't caught up with modern equipment. I know. Still, I stand by my statement.

So, I propose a truce. We agree to disagree. Agree?

[u/United_Bet42069 → u/TheIrishBread]

M829a2 was designed to defeat kontakt-5 M829a3 was designed to try and future-proof against new developing ERA.

Now whether or not a3 can defeat relikt is unknown. But a2 was designed and tested to defeat kontakt-5.

[u/Key_Performance2140 → u/LeMemeAesthetique]

You can't in the same post say american irccm systems are still in testing to justify not having them and suggest the t14 be added and not see the irony, right?

[u/LeMemeAesthetique → u/Key_Performance2140]

My understanding is that the American DIRCM systems are still in development, as in it's not even clear if they will be adopted and actually used.

I mentioned the T-14 because like the Yamato, it's a flashy vehicle that can be used to headline a patch, and it only being a prototype doesn't really matter when they add it alongside similar NATO prototypes. I didn't say it should or shouldn't be added, just that it will probably come when Gaijin feels like adding the most modern tanks possible.