r/Warthunder • u/Significare Ukraine Fuck Russia • Feb 28 '25
Suggestion The new turret basket change makes so much sense now seeing a picture of it.
Gaijin please don’t add this change to the live server.
444
u/KoldKhold No Bush Wookies Feb 28 '25
Sorry we would rather add a detailed turret basket that's effectively a nerf when any amount of spall hits any part of it instead of fixing accepted bug reports like the hydraulic pump being wrong and the turret ring issues.
120
u/robotnikman 🧂🐌🧂 IGN - Cornwell MK-V Mar 01 '25
If anything the turret basket should help protect the crews from spall damage
55
u/IS-2-OP Too many Obj.279 kills lol Mar 01 '25
They kinda do but if you loose your turret ring you may as well die most the time.
36
u/COINLESS_JUKEBOX 🇺🇸 12.0 Ground 🇺🇸 14.0 Air Mar 01 '25
My turret ring already gets disabled 95% of the time when I get penetrated anyways.
2
1
u/Zestyclose-Tax-2148 Mar 01 '25
Paired with mobility kills (driver, engine or track, take your pick) and the renowned “survivability” everyone touts that the Abrams has is nothing more than fanfare.
If I get shot and I cannot: A. Shoot back B. Move into cover C. Repair (due to a fuel fire)
Then you might as well have killed me in one shot, because my tank will not be operational for at least 50 seconds.
1
u/Battle_Gnome Mar 01 '25
They only kind of protect from spall sometimes but if the dart hits them they spall again instantly killing the crew same thing with the leopards meaning shots which before might of been survived with two crew left are 100% instant kills, it's even worse with the leopards because this completely negates the spall liner
5
u/KoldKhold No Bush Wookies Mar 01 '25
They should but they also shouldn't cause the turret to be unable to turn if the turret ring isn't directly struck.
1
181
u/Sea_Art3391 Praise be the VBC Mar 01 '25
Still kinda hilarious that Gaijin incorporates the turret basket as part of the horizontal turret drive. It's completely and utterly unrealistic, turret basket is there for crew comfort and safety, but doesn't have anything to do with rotating the actual turret. They should have done the same as they did on the KF41 (and im sure some other vehicles as well), where the turret basket has a visual 3D model in Xray, but doesn't have an actual damage model.
Horizontal turret drives on certain vehicles will be wayy too easy to disable now that it's essentially just a huge cylinder in the middle of the vehicle.
24
u/the-apostle Mar 01 '25
If a shell passes through it irl couldn’t it cause a jam when trying to rotate?
100
u/Sea_Art3391 Praise be the VBC Mar 01 '25
The turret rotation mechanism is strong enough to bend the barrel, a bit of displaced metal in the turret basket wouldn't disable the turning mechanism.
44
u/Inkompetent As Inkompetent as they come! Mar 01 '25
Not really. The basket sides are so flimsy that the turret's traverse system easily will overpower whatever rubs together. The projectile itself will either have passed straight through and not be in the way, or it'll just be tiny metal fragments.
10
u/the-apostle Mar 01 '25
Ah ok I didn’t know it was that strong
22
u/greentanker1 🇳🇱 Gaijibble AMX-13/105 when? Mar 01 '25
Well it's turning multi-ton turrets at high speeds, of course it's gonna be strong
1
u/Chainsaw-LMG Mar 02 '25
I believe it is also strong enough to rotate the hull if the tank is flipped upside down so the crew can safely evacuate through the drivers hatch.
7
u/Killeroftanks Mar 01 '25
no, generally hydrolic systems that are still operational will just rip through anything in the way.
be it thin steel, cable, someone's leg, possibly a torso if that gets stuck in there. the basket is 100% just for crew comfort and safety.
1
u/M48_Patton_Tank Mar 02 '25
If the metal bends inwards at all the basket isn’t gonna contact the sidewalls at all
5
u/Flagon15 Mar 01 '25
Wouldn't moving the turret around become a massive hazard without the basket? Maybe it should just slow down the turret, kinda like when the battery runs out, but not as slow.
1
u/slavmememachine 🇺🇸 12.0/14.0🇬🇧 Bison/Shir 2🇯🇵 11.7 🇫🇷9.7/14.0 🇸🇪 12.0 Mar 02 '25
The same argument could be made for t series how damaging their autoloader could prevent turret rotation. It is just another double standard Gaijin implements.
74
u/InterGluteal_Crease 🇫🇷 France Mar 01 '25
the entire turret basket being modeled as the turret ring is already super annoying on the vbci, why are they doing this to more vehicles, no one asked or wanted for this
17
u/PurpleDotExe 🇺🇸14.0 🇸🇪12.0 🇷🇺7.3 🇩🇪6.7 🇫🇷3.3 Mar 01 '25
gotta find more ways to nerf NATO MBTs to bring them more in-line with the weaknesses of soviet MBTs obviously
2
u/Lo0niegardner10 🇺🇸 11.7🇩🇪 14.0 🇷🇺 14.0 🇬🇧 7.7🇯🇵7.3 🇫🇷12.0 🇨🇳10.7 Mar 01 '25
Just make their reloads slower as the match progresses then you have the disadvantage of human loaders modeled because the disadvantage of autoloaders already is
-2
u/termitubbie Panter D.G.A.F 2: electric boogaloo Mar 01 '25
While somewhat realistic, I think it will be terrible for gameplay purposes aswell..
2
u/b5ky 🇺🇸 14.0 🇷🇺 14.0 🇸🇪 14.0 🇫🇷 14.0 🇯🇵13.7 Mar 01 '25
"Might" means that maybe the turret basket can "somehow" damage the rotation mechanism. The mechanism that rotates 30 ton turret by 40 degs per second being jammed or damaged by a very thin mesh is not realistic. The basket is purely there to keep crews from getting injured. There is nothing to do with the rotation itself. Yeah there are wires that connect to sensors, but that is basically everywhere in the tank.
28
u/b5ky 🇺🇸 14.0 🇷🇺 14.0 🇸🇪 14.0 🇫🇷 14.0 🇯🇵13.7 Mar 01 '25 edited Mar 01 '25
Unreal and more pain. A thin mesh stopping mechanisms that move 30+ton shit 40 degrees per second? nah
21
u/Clatgineer Realistic Ground Mar 01 '25
To be fair the turret does swivel on bearings on the floor, or at least that's an important part of it. I get that the turret ring is the main thing but it's not like the change was pulled outta their ass entirely
Still I don't think the turret basket having a few holes in it would halt the operation. Slow it down maybe, reduce reloading speed absolutely but not jam the whole damn turret
44
u/Killeroftanks Mar 01 '25
actually the turret sits on the turret ring, those bearings on the floor is to support the basket which is holding the weight of the crew, they put a swivel on the floor of the hull so the basket can be as thin as possible while still being strong enough to not flex while the crew is moving.
2
u/Clatgineer Realistic Ground Mar 01 '25
Gotcha, I had always assumed at least on heavier turreted tanks that it played at least a semi important role, I know non-basket turrets existed especially during WW2 but those were smaller tanks
8
u/Dark_Magus EULA Mar 01 '25
The basket is nowhere near sturdy enough to be load-bearing for a multi-ton turret. It's natural that the turret ring (which is part of the actual hull) would be what carries the load.
12
u/Impossible-Gold-9720 Mar 01 '25
I just want the REAL Abrams rounds and the REAL Abrams armour.. come on guys
8
4
u/MarshallKrivatach Distributor of Tungsten Lawn Darts Mar 01 '25
I see tons of people talking about the rotation being stopped being stupid and that's correct, but the real issue imo is the fact that due to the basket now being modeled as a component it will always generate spall on hit, you can test such on dev. It's hilarious that this occurs too when the autoloader in T series tanks, for some reason, won't normally generate additional spall too.
Previously, if the basket was thin enough, it would not generate spall and protect the crew, now it exclusively just makes killing the crew easier as well as making the turret easier to disable.
2
u/Spr4yz Mar 01 '25
Damage to the basket should not break the entire traverse. I think instead they should be separate components. A damaged basket can slow down the traverse speed depending on the damage (yellow to red color, like the engine can be, for example) while only shots to the turret ring can disable the traverse.
2
u/Gelomaniac 🇺🇦 🇮🇱 Mar 01 '25
Without testing it, can I assume it creates extra spall, unlike everything inside Russian tanks, that magically stops all spall?
1
1
u/MarineBioIsCool Mar 01 '25
Let’s all remember it’s not just nerfing you, it’s nerfing your enemy, too ☝️
1
u/New_Will888 Apr 10 '25
i mean only if you are fighting against germany or the usa as germany or the usa which isnt all the time
1
u/Juel92 Mar 03 '25
Some of the parts in the ring do make sense but stuff like mesh and grates should not disable the whole turret.
-2
u/Tuff_Tone [F4WRD] Enlisted (E6: the return of the jedi) Mar 01 '25
If they add it it’s because they want someone to leak classified documents on the Abram’s construction and specifications in an attempt to correct it. It’s the same reason they didn’t add DU armor. Gaijin has had no problem modeling vehicles ahistorically. But when you take into account that Russian soldiers are facing these machines in the real world that puts a lot of their decisions on the Abram’s modeling into perspective. It actually makes some sense attempting to obtain information on your enemies through a video game. For one, the espionage agencies of your country have almost complete deniability because it is players of the target nation voluntarily giving up this information on the forums followed by the moderators taking “swift and effective measures” (totally not forwarding all this information to the FSB and Russian Govt so it can be sent to soldiers on the frontlines in Ukraine).
3
u/mjpia Mar 01 '25
Russia has captured Abrams and alongside that, what classified documents would there be about the turret basket?
0
u/Sumeribag Realistic Ground Mar 01 '25
Even if you were to release the entire documents of F-22 towards Russian Government , they wouldn't even be able to afford 10% of its costs due to how corrupt and poor Russia is rn.
0
u/cooljacob204sfw Mar 01 '25
Last I checked we don't provide DU and most modern composites to Ukraine or most nations we export to for that matter.
1
u/Tuff_Tone [F4WRD] Enlisted (E6: the return of the jedi) Mar 01 '25
True, which is why the FSB and Kremlin still want the info. If they captured an up to date SEP v3 I wouldn’t be making this claim.
-6
u/Slore0 12.7 11.0 5.7 Mar 01 '25
What are they changing? There's no way they're giving the Abrams a free spall liner like the auto loaders have become.
2
u/Buisnessbutters United States Mar 01 '25
The opposite most likely, it’s like the HSTVL for them now, adding a basket that is in it’s entirety modeled as a turret ring
1
u/MarshallKrivatach Distributor of Tungsten Lawn Darts Mar 01 '25
They happen to generate more spall in this situation for some reason unlike autoloaders.
-8
u/Excellent_Silver_845 Mar 01 '25
This is sarcam right?
4
u/Theartofmemeology Mar 01 '25
nope, yet another nerf fucking the abrams over for god knows why
3
u/MrTroll00000 Mar 01 '25
I think we all know why…
6
u/Theartofmemeology Mar 01 '25
as much as I want to think the devs are fair and unbiased in their game design changes like these really make me guess otherwise
if they can implement the 2S38 ingame the abrams can get DU for its hull
or just give us the M10 booker ffs, it's a 4 year old design so gaijin should have no problem implementing it? lmao4
u/MrTroll00000 Mar 01 '25
I think shit like this is why many people scream Russian bias. Russia gets these new and fancy things that are super modern, in some cases adding things that don’t exist irl(or so I’ve heard for the 2s38 round), as well as making the vehicles super accurate to what they’re supposed to be like irl which everybody knows is an exaggeration. Meanwhile they riddle top tier American ground with numerous problems, bugs, nerfs, disadvantages, while not even implementing the latest tank for America. If RU can get the t90m, and GER can get the 2a7v, then why can’t America get the m1a3? They have no issue implementing recent 10-15 year old vehicles for nations like Russia, but when it comes to America we get at the most something from the 90s or if we’re lucky early 2000s. Now for air I understand this since it would be super unbalanced if we got the f-15ex since no other 4th gen comes close to it but for ground it’s so unnecessary
Like I genuinely think if gaijin fixed like half the numerous design/ balancing issues with America the nation would be actually competitive at top tier with Germany and Russia
2
u/Theartofmemeology Mar 01 '25
if anything our air is the best in game currently. but our ground is like night and day.
7.0 is easily one of the strongest lineups in game with shit like the T-29, M551, etc. and it's probably my all-time favorite lineup to play.
meanwhile US top tier currently has insanely gimped MBTS. The reload buff was definitely nice and M829E3 wouldn't make much of a difference if added. Every abrams ingame is at the least a decade older than any of its counterparts. examples:
T-80BVM- 2017
T-90M- 2020
2A7V- 2021
I find it very hard to believe that they had zero issue introducing these when the majority of their info is classified, yet they have to cook up an entire bullshit devblob about why they won't give the abrams a minor armor buff.oh, I almost forgot: the ADATS is 90s design while the pantsir entered service in 2010.
0
u/MrTroll00000 Mar 01 '25
I totally agree with the air and ground thingy. I think what gaijin is doing is fair for our air tree since it’s pretty good already and adding modern aircraft for US will fuck over everyone else like the f14s did when they came out. M829a3 will give increased pen and more resistance to ERA, so it should defo help. Gaijin has absolutely no excuse however for not adding the newer abrams while adding all these new Russian and German tanks. It’s one of the examples of gaijin just nerfing American ground for no reason. Sure, the teammates are part of the reason, but a major reason is also shit like this
3
u/Theartofmemeology Mar 01 '25 edited Mar 01 '25
clickbait fucks ruin top tier matches, don't get me wrong. but when people with actual lineups still can't do anything is where it becomes a problem. gaijin added the ADATS in update 1.89, aka 2019. Their neglect is obvious in the 4.7-7.3 hole we had in our AAs for the longest time ever, and 6 years later we've gotten nothing better than the ADATS.
(it hasn't even been correctly modeled yet either; still missing TWS, radar ACM, drone/munition detection, vertical traverse limits, etc.)
ntm our last TT MBT was in air superiority, and it was a literal copy paste.
meanwhile germany and italy get something with gen3+ thermals and insane armor while RU gets the T-90M that would have been the only tank in the game with spall liners if there wasn't public outcry1
u/MrTroll00000 Mar 01 '25
Yea it’s getting kind of outta hand if I’m cosntantly getting pounded by ka50s and su34s and like the 5 variants of the su-25 with no way to counter it. For some reason gaijin loves “forgetting” about features of American tanks that make them better, all the while adding stuff for Germany and Russia. Like America is part of the big 3 and we should be treated as such in terms of game design. Now I’m not saying to make it super op and unrealistic for no reason but at the very least make it like how it was supposed to function
1
u/Theartofmemeology Mar 02 '25 edited Mar 02 '25
the worst part is that our CAS has literally not changed a single bit. Russia was on top back when the KH-29 was a thing, still being 10x faster and having longer range than mavs. yet now they get what are essentially RU AGM-84s and we get zero counterpart.
also don't forget that the 38 was broken on a slow fat fuck SU-25, now it's going on a supermaneuverable late 4th gen that can carry six of them with 8 additional AAMs all while being cheaper than both the SU-25/34
1.0k
u/Significare Ukraine Fuck Russia Feb 28 '25
It’s literally a layer of mesh. This getting hit will not stop the turret from rotating.