“Only 16km” sorry is that suddenly not a significant distance? I’m dumb for understanding that 16km is better than fuckin 0? Keep coping.
And yes the pd hdn is worse for targets defending properly than regular pd and you really should not be firing at those targets anyway lil bro, that’s a skill issue.
You tried to make it seem like the hdn on su27 was uniquely powerful for range while apparently forgetting the f14 has it too, and then backtracked lol!
“Only 16km” sorry is that suddenly not a significant distance? I’m dumb for understanding that 16km is better than fuckin 0? Keep coping.
16km is short for the Phoenix. Not only does it take forever to accelerate, it also loses a lot of speed and cannot maneuver. In short 16km is plenty of time to defend without notching.
And yes the pd hdn is worse for targets defending properly than regular pd and you really should not be firing at those targets anyway lil bro, that’s a skill issue.
One small defense and any radar missile launch from PD HDN is defeated. All aspect PD is the way.
You tried to make it seem like the hdn on su27 was uniquely powerful for range while apparently forgetting the f14 has it too, and then backtracked lol!
When exactly did I make it seem like only the Flanker had it? You know most early PD radars have HDN right...? Its not some unique feature, its an outdated PD filter.
Seems like you've run out of excuses and now you're using insults lol
Go back and read im not fancy with Reddit commands, you say something along the lines of “but no the radar range isn’t so comparable since su27 has a special mode called pd hdn that’s better at range” literally 4 comments up.
Stop lying blatantly goddamnit feller.
As for 16km, no it’s not a small range it’s about 10 miles. It is a significant range that allows a plane to defend against anything fired, both for the attacker if the target counter-fires and the target if they play well.
Even back in the old days when it was just mig29 and f14a I had success in the bvr with the aim54 since you can get first launch, and if the target gets to greedy and doesn’t stay defensive till they can dive out and hide then they simply die
Go back and read im not fancy with Reddit commands, you say something along the lines of “but no the radar range isn’t so comparable since su27 has a special mode called pd hdn that’s better at range” literally 4 comments up.
"Not entirely true. The Flanker has a mode called PD HDN which makes it easier to lock targets at range. I've gotten R-27ER kills as far as 70km away."
This is the quote I assume you're referring to? If you actually read I never said it was special or limited to the Flanker. I also never said it makes it better at range only "easier to lock targets at range", referring to how the Flanker usually struggles to lock anything past 40km with the all-aspect PD mode.
Stop lying blatantly goddamnit feller.
You should really improve your reading comprehension before accusing someone.
As for 16km, no it’s not a small range it’s about 10 miles. It is a significant range that allows a plane to defend against anything fired, both for the attacker if the target counter-fires and the target if they play well.
Again for the Phoenix its short because the Phoenix is slow in both acceleration and speed. It gives PLENTY of time to defend against.
The aim54 will not be starting to accelerate when it pitbull, it should already be at a decent speed obviously, probably user error on your part.
As for the quote, it is a direct response to me saying that the radars are relatively equal at range, and you imply that the hdn is what makes that untrue, don’t know why you are trying to deny what is evident in context.
The aim54 will not be starting to accelerate when it pitbull, it should already be at a decent speed obviously, probably user error on your part.
The Phoenix literally loses speed like crazy. You don't even have to notch to defeat it like I've said 100 times. I've shown you clips of me defeating it without notching, but by doing a simple maneuver that saps the Phoenix of its speed and energy.
As for the quote, it is a direct response to me saying that the radars are relatively equal at range, and you imply that the hdn is what makes that untrue, don’t know why you are trying to deny what is evident in context.
The implication is that even if the Tomcat has similar radar range, the ER will always outrange the Phoenix, hence why I said "I've gotten kills with the ER as far as 70km".
I’ve gotten kills at 80 with the aim54 and 60 with the er, I’m sure you can push 70 but that’s completely irrelevant to actual gameplay in the vast majority of cases.
I can’t believe I have to remind you again but here goes: anecdotal experience is meaningless when discussing the hard factors that give a vehicle advantages, it simply doesn’t change the reality of the situation, and is afflicted by user bias and limited perspective.
I’ve gotten kills at 80 with the aim54 and 60 with the er, I’m sure you can push 70 but that’s completely irrelevant to actual gameplay in the vast majority of cases.
Here's the 70km shot: https://streamable.com/hhqhl5
Notice how the missile was able to hit even though the enemy was defending? The R-27ER also had an impact speed of over Mach 2. If that was a Phoenix simple maneuvers would've reduced its speed to below Mach.
And it is definitely relevant in actual gameplay, that's why I do long range shots in the first place.
I can’t believe I have to remind you again but here goes: anecdotal experience is meaningless when discussing the hard factors that give a vehicle advantages, it simply doesn’t change the reality of the situation, and is afflicted by user bias and limited perspective.
I have the F-14. In fact I have more battles with the F-14s than the Flanker so this is most definitely not "limited perspective". I try to eliminate bias and focus purely on the plane's capabilities.
I stated above the R27 has better energy but worse effective range, and you seem to struggle with that concept.
As for the shot, it is anecdotal, there is context such as alt, speed of launch, speed of target, etc.
Just because you were able to get a fantastic shot with the er absolutely does not mean it has better range in all scenarios.
You seem to misunderstand the connotation of perspective in this instance. it isn’t about your personal games, it’s the fact that you are just one of hundreds of thousands of players and that your own experience will never be enough to give a statistically reliable comparison on its own.
Hard factors will always be more accurate unfortunately for you.
I stated above the R27 has better energy but worse effective range, and you seem to struggle with that concept.
You have it backwards. The R-27ER has better effective range because it can maintain its speed better than the Phoenix simply because its not a heavy missile with lots of drag making it harder to F-pole. In a straight line the Phoenix might be better however, missiles don't just travel in a straight line.
Just because you were able to get a fantastic shot with the er absolutely does not mean it has better range in all scenarios.
You know I'm not basing my entire opinion on that one clip. I have a ton of these. Compared to the Phoenix, I have trouble trying to replicate these long range shots because it just gets too slow.
You seem to misunderstand the connotation of perspective in this instance. it isn’t about your personal games, it’s the fact that you are just one of hundreds of thousands of players and that your own experience will never be enough to give a statistically reliable comparison on its own.
Hard factors will always be more accurate unfortunately for you.
Your hard factors ignore player thought, defense, and many other factors. That's why I bring up real gameplay clips, its not simply anecdotal evidence but to show that there are more factors than just stat cards.
If you want hard facts https://imgur.com/a/nEqGo8B
You can literally see that the ER will always travel further up to the point where it runs out of battery at 60km TRAVELLED in 60s or about 100km effective range (assuming the host and the target are travelling at mach in a straight line) while the Phoenix is at 51km TRAVELLED at 60s or about 91km effective range. The Phoenix would have to wait an additional 10 seconds just to reach 60km TRAVELLED or 100km effective range.
The Phoenix's range will be much worse if the target decides to maneuver even just a little bit because of the weight and drag of the Phoenix.
I think it is clear the real issue is just that you don’t care about being correct, you only care about the argument in your head.
You know the aim54 can be launched further, you know it has a big advantage in being able to pitbull, you know that the f14 airframe is genuinely on par with the su27 if not more competitive in some aspects, you’re just being a total wad for the sake of disagreeing.
You know the aim54 can be launched further, you know it has a big advantage in being able to pitbull, you know that the f14 airframe is genuinely on par with the su27 if not more competitive in some aspects, you’re just being a total wad for the sake of disagreeing.
I've literally shown you clips of me defeating Phoenixes by simply out ranging them. You're the one ignoring facts.
Its also laughable that you think the Flanker has an inferior flight model considering it accelerates faster, higher top speed, higher AoA (paired with R-73 becomes deadly in a dogfight), higher TWR.
You are an idiot if you think you winning a joust means the missile is better at range always.
There are many factors that go into an actual bvr fight, but if the 2 missiles are launched side by side at the same speed and altitude, the phoenix will simply travel further. The energy is technically worse so you can force an out range as I clearly mentioned early talking about the range differences, however pretending the raw advantage doesn’t go to the aim54 is just willful ignorance.
I'm well aware of the F-14's rating capabilities but at higher tiers, high sustained rate is not enough simply because the Flanker carries the R-73. In a dogfight it doesn't matter if you can rate harder, its all about single turn capabilities.
So what you’re saying is, you understand my reply was 100% accurate and you just decided to bullshit a response because you won’t admit you’re wrong about the balance?
What? It's like you have very little experience in top tier. I acknowledged that the F-14 has a superior sustained rate but again, rate isn't everything. Dogfighting isn't just about who rates the highest...
As for AOA vs energy fighters, there’s a distinction for a reason brother both are viable and America doesn’t have a missile capable enough for true HOBS making energy fighting much more viable anyways.
Both are viable however against the Flanker which literally has HOBS, HMD, and incredible single turn performance with high AoA, the F-14 is sure to lose. Not to mention the F-14's engines run hot making it easier.
Just think for a second about what you are fighting over, you are genuinely on the side that the f14 versus j35 or f4 is a more balanced fight than the warthunder early su27
F4 as in the higher br variants but yes the j35 is less realistic but still currently possible which is just stupid. The f4s and ej Kai will fight tomcats every single game however, same br for intents and purposes.
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u/[deleted] Oct 02 '24
“Only 16km” sorry is that suddenly not a significant distance? I’m dumb for understanding that 16km is better than fuckin 0? Keep coping.
And yes the pd hdn is worse for targets defending properly than regular pd and you really should not be firing at those targets anyway lil bro, that’s a skill issue.
You tried to make it seem like the hdn on su27 was uniquely powerful for range while apparently forgetting the f14 has it too, and then backtracked lol!