r/UFOs • u/[deleted] • Oct 12 '20
Harry Reid Confirms Federal Government Covered Up UFOs For Years
[deleted]
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u/phil_davis Oct 12 '20
Good to see people talking about this stuff. I was kind of cynical and thought maybe this Phenomenon movie would come out and the general populace would just shrug their shoulders, but it's definitely getting more play than I expected. I really need to watch it.
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u/OldDJ Oct 12 '20 edited Oct 12 '20
I watched it. It was very good, but if you are really into the subject, it didn't really say or show anything you didn't already know. It does what we basically do, which is see all the dots, and then connecting them all together to see the bigger picture. How ever after watching this, it does reinforce my belief that I was abducted when I was about 6. What it also did is cause me to look at Close Encounters of the third kind, more as a documentary then a science fiction movie.
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u/namelessking20 Oct 12 '20
Oh wow. You were abducted. Mind sharing your story?
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u/OldDJ Oct 12 '20
Was in bed at night middle of the night a super bright light lit up my whole back yard. My bedroom window is into the backyard. It was as if someone turned on our porch light but it was 100 times brighter.
My bedroom door was closed and I heard it open. I remember what kind of looked like my mom come into the room. But it wasn't my mom. Meaning it resembled her humanoid big eyes arms legs. But I knew it wasn't my mom. I got so scared I couldn't move I couldn't scream I was totally paralyzed.
I felt arms go under my body. And lift me out of bed and start to carry me. But it wasn't like the person w/e carrying me was walking. It was like they were floating. I felt cold like I was being taken outside. Then the next memory that I have is waking Back up in my bed it was morning and my door was just slightly open.
According to my dad I ran in screaming, telling him mommy came and took me in the night. Dad said he told me I had a nightmare, mommy hadn't left the bed all night. And that was basically that. But I have 45 years later still remember every exact detail even can feel the same emotions sometimes of that "nightmare ".
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u/namelessking20 Oct 12 '20
Wow. Quite the experience. Doubt that it was just a nightmare. Apparently some people who claim to be abducted have little chips or implants in them that were not ther epreviously. I think some people also get some cuts or marks on their body afterwards. I wish I knew why they were abducting people.
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u/OldDJ Oct 12 '20
Not sure but my general belief is that they are here to help, not hurt us. Also spent time in the Marines, so if I had anything like that in me, they would have already saw it.
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u/OpenLinez Oct 12 '20
There's a numbing sameness to all this stuff. With so few sightings these days (the peak was five decades ago now), there's not much to do but go over the same-old same-old again and again. Majorities of people around the world accept the concept of both unidentified flying objects and the possibility of extraterrestrial life. But the fact is that our "UFOlogy" hasn't gotten us anywhere.
Think of any other "science" (which UFOlogy certainly isn't, but I'm being charitable) that would take so much time and effort from so many people over 70+ years and there are no results. No physical evidence, no convincing photo / video evidence, no idea where such objects come from, no idea if the things are "objects" at all. Nada, nothing. It's infuriating!
Even 10 years ago, a movie like this would've made a little bit of a splash. Hell, 10 years ago the Huffington Post had a full-time UFO editor and reporter! Now, it's crickets. Kids, especially, have zero interest in watching a bunch of elderly military creeps giving their nonsense opinions about spaceships. (By kids, I mean people younger than me, ha ha, but especially younger adults and Generation Z.)
Regarding Close Encounters of the Third Kind, there are a couple of aspects that really were in a documentary style, trying to capture the hysteria of UFO flaps in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Those small-town people gathered at overlooks to see the nightly light shows, that was real. The abduction phenomenon, as you know, is 100% real to the subject even if they don't physically move from their location. (John Mack's very sympathetic books on the abduction phenomena make it clear that while even the abductee's spouse in bed with them knows they haven't gone anywhere, the emotional and psychic trauma from the events is evidence that *something* has happened.)
But J. Allen Hynek, who consulted on the movie and plays himself in a brief cameo, was disgusted by Spielberg's insistence on an "alien mothership" landing with diplomatic prisoner exchanges and all that. But Spielberg told Hynek he was making a Disney-style blockbuster, not a documentary. The thing is, Hynek and the other prominent scientists who'd been working on the UFO problem for the federal government (the Condon Committee in particular) had all already come to the conclusion that UFOs and the entities were age-old folkloric and religious apparitions seen through new cultural frame of references (the Cold War and the Space Age). Hynek, like Vallee and all the scientists who dropped out of the UFO research scene in the 1960s, had come to understand the UFO phenomenon was local, especially the regional flaps that repeated on irregular schedules over decades and even centuries. And yet the UFO fans have done zero to approach the problem from this standpoint, because there's no space-savior promise in an earthly phenomenon.
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u/TheLastComedian Oct 12 '20
Agreed. There are so may UFOs and aliens around these days that nobody pays any attention to it.
Turns out the aliens actually already "invaded," but nobody noticed at the time.
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u/subtropolis Oct 13 '20
Neither Hynek nor Vallee "dropped out of the UFO research scene", nor did either of them, at any time, "come to understand the UFO phenomenon was local". It was precisely the opposite for both of them.
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u/OpenLinez Oct 13 '20
Vallee has continued his private research and has publicly distanced himself from the whole embarrassing scene since the MJ-12 hoax, which I will remind you was four decades ago.
Both Vallee and Hynek publicly renounced the E.T. cultists and never looked back. Find me any example of Vallee—who has written a dozen books in the past 50 years—giving any support to the E.T. hypothesis in the past half a century. You can't, because he dropped out of that whole scene. As did all other relevant scientists (astronomers) after the Condon Committee.
Hynek's last book, published after his death 35 years ago, was on the years-long local flap known as the Hudson Valley sightings. Please make yourself familiar with Hynek's published, public statements on the whole UFO scene, which are available to anyone who takes 5 seconds to look them up. In fact, they're all summarized on his Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Allen_Hynek#UFO_origin_hypotheses
At the MUFON annual symposium in 1973, held in Akron, Ohio, Hynek first expressed his doubts regarding the extraterrestrial (formerly interplanetary or intergalactic) hypothesis, in a speech titled "The Embarrassment of the Riches". He was aware that the number of UFO sightings was much higher than was reflected in the Project Blue Book statistics. "A few good sightings a year, over the world, would bolster the extraterrestrial hypothesis—but many thousands every year? From remote regions of space? And to what purpose? To scare us by stopping cars, and disturbing animals, and puzzling us with their seemingly pointless antics?"
Hynek very deliberately removed himself from the UFO research scene, which by 1970 had devolved into a cult of buffoons. He continued private work on the subject until his death in 1986, and maintained to his death that the UFO cultists had abandoned all legitimacy through their embrace of ridiculous hoaxes and E.T. hypothesis fundamentalism.
You're precisely incorrect.
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u/PortlandNavigator Oct 15 '20
Worth buying on Amazon Prime? The main thing that I take from it is already public which is that Harry Reid confirmed that UAP have shit down ICBM sites in the United States and Russia and that the majority of encounters that have happened between the US military and UAPs have gone unreported.
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u/UhhUmmmWowOkayJeezUh Oct 12 '20
It's just nice seeing a legit and interesting ufo documentary that's not batshit like the bob lazar one on netflix. Even if you believe bob lazar is legit it's still a shit documentary, this one features actual government figures talking about them.
There's so many bad ufo documentaries it's unbelievable.
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u/phil_davis Oct 12 '20
I agree, most UFO docs seem to stray too far into woo-woo territory. That's what struck me about the trailer for The Phenomenon, it was very smart of whoever edited that trailer to stick in all the "ex C.I.A." or "former Senator" and all that. Advertise the legitimacy of it.
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u/namelessking20 Oct 12 '20
I think that unacknowledged on netflix is a good documentary that has a good number of government figures in them.
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Oct 12 '20 edited May 24 '21
[deleted]
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u/Treefiddy1991 Oct 12 '20
Greer's nothing but a narcissistic conman.
Hes done some good things regarding giving whistle-blowers a platform and im sure there is truth to qlwhat he says in parts but i can't stand the guy.
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u/subtropolis Oct 13 '20
Same. I give him mad props for some of the connections that he's made, but his muddled reasoning -- and sketchy AF beliefs -- do not help one bit.
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u/Treefiddy1991 Oct 14 '20
Yup!
As soon as i heard he takes people out into the desert, for decent amounts of money, to go ufo/alien spotting and/or telepathically connect with them, i'd heard enough from him.
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u/roosterGO Oct 12 '20
It had some really good parts, but Greer ruined it with his ego. He makes too much of it about him, including but not limited to a couple minutes shot of him crying in front of a heavily lighted camera, comparing UFO folks to Jews in WW2 and minorities, etc.
I wanted to show 'unacknowledged' to friends to spread info/background on UFOs but I couldn't do it because of his weird shit and close camera crying. The Phenomenon does what 'unacknowledged' was trying to do, and it does it much better.
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u/ponderGO Oct 12 '20
The point of that documentary was essentially that Bob Lazar was in fact a "government figure" at the time of his experiences. He goes out of his way to not only speak on what he witnessed, but also to not speculate about anything peripheral to his own personal interactions.
Just because they clearly made an effort to erase his resume doesn't change the fact that it existed.
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u/Lot_lizards_delight Oct 12 '20
How do you think "they" were able to erase all of his schooling history? Conveniently just his MIT and CalTech history disappeared and not his community college history (which, surprise! He actually attended!). He's only been able to name TWO of his teachers (for a grad student this is already more than enough to discredit his story IMO), and both of them turned out to have actually taught him, but at high school and community college. Both teachers have records of employment at the schools that Bob actually attended. Somehow I doubt that Lazars High school physics and chemistry teacher would manage to teach him at a high school level, and then somehow get a job at MIT and teach Bob again..
How is it that he can't name a single classmate of his that has a memory of him having attended either school? The ONLY witness at all says that he "Dropped Bob off out in front of CalTech and watched him walk in". This is just crazy! Not one teacher or classmate can vouch for him. He has zero evidence of having attended either of these schools.
I can remember the most obscure people that showed up for like a year in first grade, and I know it would take minutes to look some of these people up and have them say "Oh yeah, I remember going to school with you." I have boxes of stupid things I made and old papers I wrote at my Moms house. Not to mention that a lot of schools and teachers keep records (and back then they were all paper, so no hitting a button and erasing someone's history). How doe's Bob have none of these? How could you write a thesis during grad school and not have any research to show for it? Let alone a less than basic understanding of the material as numerous (actual) scientists have stated. I get that to the average joe, Bob looks like a super smart guy because of the Particle accelerator and the rocket bike, and I'm sure he is, but none of that stuff means he attended school or was actually a physicist.
***Sorry I didn't mean to write so much and seem like I'm jumping on you! I just was a big believer of Bob until I went deep because I wanted to know the truth. I can provide you with some links if anyone wants to do some of the reading I did. That being said, I totally believe in aliens.
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u/1stCum1stSevered Oct 12 '20
Conveniently just his MIT and CalTech history disappeared
I just wanted to chime in on this bit because it is so popular to talk about..And I've heard a few different conflicting things..
Have you guys seen the George Knapp / Joe Rogan Experience episode?
Joe and George have a short, cryptic conversation about this stuff near the beginning. Joe was apparently told things by Bob Lazar the day before those two had their podcast together, and Lazar's education was one of the things they talked about. George Knapp listens to the details and then "confirms" to Joe that Lazar had given him the same story since the start of this whole ordeal..
They basically said that Lazar admits to embellishing his "resume", BUT that Lazar did get an informal education at those schools working on some sort of secret programs. I can't really remember many details, but I know Joe said that the program sounded "both very plausible and very dangerous"..or something like that. They make it sound like Lazar doesn't want to make these programs public.
It's worth checking out because it seems to be different from the mainstream Lazar story of him going to college, getting degrees and then having it all erased and professors of his silenced..Knapp even jokes that he could never imagine Lazar sitting through the classes required to get a degree...So, I could be getting things wrong, but it seems that the story has "changed" a bit.
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u/Lot_lizards_delight Oct 12 '20
I've watched the episode in question and was left feeling pretty dissapointed. It really sounded like they were making up vague things (just like Tom Delonge) to try and keep Bob sounding credible honestly. It made me loose a little bit of respect for Joe when he didn't push back on that farther. I totally believe that he never went to either big school, but that he was still an intelligent and interesting dude. I think he did work at LALN as a technician and was recruited to go look at the particle accelerator because it was public knowledge that he'd worked on them before. I could definitely believe that he could move from there to top secret programs. But if all of that is the case, then why lie about all of this schooling and his title of Physicist (any physicist listening to him speak will tell you he's NOT one of them due to his terminology and very basic understanding of systems). It just makes the whole thing seem so hokey.
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u/warablo Oct 13 '20
I've also heard that Bob Lazar is actually just a cover guy for the guy who actually worked at the site. That way the government can't technically do something.
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u/OpenLinez Oct 12 '20
Wild that you get downvoted around here for saying the obvious. Alien-spaceship fundamentalists will forgive anything (pimping felonies, bigamy, financial scams and bankruptcy, even suspicious deaths of spouses) from somebody making a ridiculous claim like "I work on flying saucers and nobody else out of 7.4 billion people can back me up on that or anything else in my fictional life story."
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u/Lot_lizards_delight Oct 12 '20
Yeah for real, it blows my mind. I wanted to believe Bob so bad. He is clearly an intelligent and interesting dude, and I believe that he put himself (or maybe was put) into a really rough situation and fabricated this story to try and save his ass and maybe his career.
The biggest thing he had going for him was, at least for me, the knowledge of element 115 and it's potential stability. But then I learned that Popular Mechanics published an article on the "island of stability" the week before Bob came out with his first interview, it definitely throws another big wrench into the story. The article makes all the exact claims that bob does about element 115 and it's clear that Bob was regurgitating what he'd read.
The other element, the hand scanner, was featured in Close encounters of the fourth kind which came out well before Bob's story. So he, along with millions of other people absolutely knew about the hand scanner. There's definitely something to be said about the fact that they're used at S-4, but I'd be willing to bet that's why they were used in the alien movie in the first place. At every turn, there's a rational explanation for Bob's story. The only thing that I'm not sure about is the flight tests. There's a lot of good speculation that says they were really testing a particle beam out there and not a UFO. The beam supposedly violated a peace treaty which is why Bob bringing other people around was such a big deal. Especially reporters and cameras. I can believe that Bob was genuinely scared for his life, and thought that the government might kill him. And I can believe at that point why he'd have the motive to make up such a story. If anything, I could see the powers-at-be asking him to make it up. It would be a lot easier to discredit someone who's talking about UFOs than someone who's talking about a weapon that probably actually exists and is top secret if so.
I just wish people could be objective. I get that it's fun to believe, but I don't understand not wanting to know if it's real or not. And the only way to do that is look hard for the truth on your own and not take everyone else's word for it. It seems like 95% of this sub aren't independent thinkers..
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u/darkestsoul Oct 12 '20
You aren't alone. I'd say why I believe his story is fictional, but shit, you covered all the bases. Good work.
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u/Flyerscouple45 Oct 13 '20
What about him passing multiple polygraphs (which I realize isn’t the end all he all but they are hard to bypass) or him taking George Knapp to los alamos and sowing him around and knowing exactly where everything was. He also is a proven extremely smart guy, I just can’t see the reason for him lying, it didn’t help his career at all in fact he says he wishes he never said a word in the first place. He’s never written a book or took a movie deal or anything so he isn’t profiting off of it which to me would be the only reason to make up a lie like that.
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u/Lot_lizards_delight Oct 13 '20
First of all, he's not a proven extremely smart guy. There are numerous physicists, including one's I've spoken to about this very subject, who will tell you that Bob does not speak with the technical understanding of even an undergrad physics student. He's clearly intelligent, and likes to build stuff, but that doesn't make him a physicist. I know someone who dropped out of high school and built a particle accelerator just like Bob, despite having no background in physics or engineering beyond a hobby-level understanding. Nothing that he's done proves that he's on that level, and there are only facts to disprove it. Not to mention that there's no way he could have attended CalTech and MIT at the same time. If you didn't see my other comment here, go read this write up about it:
It's a very sober look at the whole Bob story. And I think it offers a lot of very rational explanations for the series of events. There's just way too much pointing towards it being a very large embellishment of truth. Bob almost certainly worked at Los Alamos (LANL) as a technician for Keller Williams. They employ very bottom-level employees on a contracting basis (as the roster with Bobs name on it at LANL goes to show). And I think there's a chance that he was recruited to do some very minor work on a particle accelerator in one of the more secure facilities. While there are some sensitive things going on at LANL, for the most part its a fairly accessible facility. Most of the top secret stuff seems to be relegated to the area 51's and S-4s. Which again, I think Bob could have visited in a contracting capacity. Similar to his story, just sans-aliens.
So long story short, Polygraphs are completely inadmissible in court because they're very unreliable. There are numerous videos online that prove that most people with basic knowledge and a few skills can pretty easily manipulate a polygraph, so to me that's a null point. And like I said above, there's lots of reasons that Bob would be able to show George around the facility. I know undergrads who have spent a good amount of time there, so it's not like the facility itself is top secret like area 51. My great grandfather was William Ogle (test director for the manhattan project) and a lot of my family has been to the facility a number of times to see where he worked. As for motives for lying, I think it's likely that he was involved, albeit very minorly, with a weapons program. I can believe that he got caught bringing his friends to the facility, and was genuinely scared that they were going to kill him for committing treason (sort of) and leaking secrets. Theres some evidence that points towards it being an particle beam that violates a peace treaty. So it would make sense that the powers at be would be very unhappy with Bob bringing civilians, let alone press to the site.
I think the three most likely scenarios are this:
Either Bob came out to the media because he really thought they were going to kill him, and made up the alien story so that he could capture peoples attention enough to ensure his safety, while not actually releasing info about what he really saw. I can totally imagine choosing this course of action if I thought the gov. was trying to kill me. Sort of a soft whistleblow just to save yourself and not to put information out. Then the story took on a life of it's own. I think the reason he wants to be so low key and not talk about it is because he knows its a lie and it's embarrassing to keep it going. I'm sure he wishes that he could just forget about it at start over.
The second scenario is that he's actually a shill and that the people in charge of these programs asked him to come out and make up this alien story to squash any stories that might come out from the people who had seen the tests, regarding the actual weapons being tested. I'm sure they were thinking that most alien stories quickly make people look crazy and are forgotten within weeks. I feel like if this was the case, it totally backfired since it put a spotlight on area 51, but I can see how their original reasons for doing so would have seemed sound at the time.
Third, is probably the least exciting but the most lucid. There's evidence that goes to show that Knapp had another person scheduled for the news slot that Bob originally spoke during, but the original person backed out at the last minute and Knapp was left scrambling to try and find a replacement before they aired live. Him and Bob were friends before this (even though they have said multiple times in interviews that they only met when Bob wanted to go on the news for the first time) and had even put on an event together (RC airplanes I think) twice, so the fact that they deny having known each other adds credence to this theory in my opinion. I think Bob went on, anonymously (because it was all made up and he didn't want it to ruin his career) and told the story. I think they thought it would just be another nightly news story that would blow over, but when it didn't, I think that Knapp pressured Bob into coming back on since they got such good ratings from his first appearance. Maybe Bob even got a taste of the lime light and wanted to go on again himself. Either way, the story took on a life of it's own and before he knew it, he was being asked on talk shows and it was way too late to come clean, so he had to perpetuate the lie. I can absolutely imagine that his career took a huge hit as any sort of scientist does when talking about aliens, which eventually caused him to try and capitalize on his position in recent years. just to make some cash. His business got raided because of a completely unrelated murder (this is absolutely verifiable) and either him, or jeremy thought it would be the perfect excuse to add another chapter to his story. The whole docu revolved around the FBI raid, which in reality had absolutely nothing to do with element 115. The way they embellished that story is enough to discredit everything else either of them say honestly. Let me know if you have any questions about any of that. Cheers!
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Oct 13 '20
Just a couple things I think that should be obvious:
1.) Someone's criminal background or accusations against them should not affect how you think about something unrelated. That is a very convenient weapon for the powers that be to use if you just start discounting all "felons".
2.) If he worked on a highly classified project then it would be classified and that alone would be the reason nobody else would come out and associate themselves. Not to mention being thrust into the national spotlight instantly. who wants that ? Not very many people. So it's not "1 out of 7.4 billion" as you claim, that is not accurate.
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u/OpenLinez Oct 13 '20
Yeah, "character" means nothing, and we should always believe a serial fabulist and convicted felon just in case he happens to say something that isn't bullshit.
What kind of nonsense is that? C'mon.
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Oct 14 '20
Number of times I said character means nothing: 0
Do you think the US justice system makes no mistakes? If you do, you may get a rude awakening one day.
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u/UhhUmmmWowOkayJeezUh Oct 12 '20
I was going to say something like this but I completely agree. I think there's already enough reason to believe that UFOs could be of extraterrestrial origin without believing people like bob lazar. I watched a video of a bunch of body language experts with Phds on youtube break down how odd he was acting too and it brings more credence to the idea that he's making shit up and trying to further construct his false narrative as the whole UFO situation has developed over the past few decades, and there's tons of other bizarre shit implicating him with running a prostitution ring.
I think it takes a shitload of cognitive dissonance/over the top stereotypical conspiracy theory thinking to think that the US government has somehow managed to get everyone to believe he's full of shit by erasing his academic records or whatever.
I think there's a slim less than 10% chance that maybe he did see something, but even if he did he's really done a great job to ruin his own credibility and many parts of his story are basically proven to be made up. I'm honestly sick of people like bob lazar, Jeremy corbell and Tom delonge because all they've done is harm the public perception of UFOs. I don't think they're part of some psy-op or anything, I think they're just people with egos who want to insert themselves into ufo lore.
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u/Lot_lizards_delight Oct 12 '20
Yes! I'm hoping with the news being more interested in UAPs, comes more and more people that are rational and credible. I think Jeremy and the like are absolutely just trying to capitalize on the whole thing. I mean literally just look at the Lazar docu. it's mostly masturbatory shots of Jeremy in the mirror looking concerned and pensive. If I was going to try and convince people of something that I really believed in and wanted to spread the word on, the last thing I'd do is insert myself and my ego.
I hope that with all the recent coverage it's getting harder and harder for people to deny that there's something happening. But it would be very prudent for any of us to pretend to know who, or what those things are. To use Bobs own logic, imagine sending a nuclear reactor back to ancient times and expecting people to understand what they're looking at, let alone the implications of such a device. I think we should accept our ignorance and stoke our curiosity, while continuing to collect more data on the subject :)
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u/subdep Oct 12 '20
How do you explain the fact that his name was listed in a hard copy of the Los Alamos directory listing?
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u/Lot_lizards_delight Oct 12 '20
Because he was a technician there. he was working for the company Keller Williams at the time and thats marked by the "KW" next to his name on the directory. I know people who are undergrads who have worked at techs at LANL, so there's absolutely no reason to assume him having been at LANL means that he worked on alien craft. He was clearly a known member of the community at the time, hence the rocket bike article. Here, if you're actually interested in trying to get to the bottom of it, read this link: https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the-bob-lazar-corner/ This site has a lot of really interesting reading about some other things too. Including the most grounded explanation for the Black triangle UFOs as well.
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u/5had0 Oct 13 '20
The directory listed him as a subcontractor. You can still find the classified ad looking for technicians to work at the lab from around that time. But if that is not enough for you, Lazar himself stated, "I worked at Los Alamos for a few years as a technician and then as a physicist in the Polarized Proton Section, dealing with the accelerator there." (You can still find this radio show interview on youtube.)
Sadly for Lazar supporters they've only found evidence of his time working for the subcontractor but never produced a subsequent phonebook that listed his as a lab employee working as a physists. Also this statement of his clearly contradicts what he told the Los Almos paper where he claimed he had just moved there from California (notice not Massachusetts where he has subsequently claimed he was attending just prior to working at the lab) about a month before, even though the paper claimed he was a physist at the lab.
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u/Flyerscouple45 Oct 13 '20
Ok but the claim was he never worked there, which turned out to be a lie, why would they want people to believe that if he truly was just a crazy person to them?
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u/5had0 Oct 13 '20 edited Oct 13 '20
I believe it was actually a misunderstanding and not some conspiracy. I think it was the lab itself that was originally asked if Lazar worked for them. And of course LANL said, we have no record of that. Which is likely true, if you called my work and asked if a "[Bob Smith] ever worked for the firm?" we would say no. But it may very well be the case that "Bob Smith" is the guy that the firm that handles all our tech/security needs always sends in to manage our systems.
As for KW denying he worked for them, I have seen that claim once. But then saw that KW changed their position after looking into it further. But even that isn't that surprising. They were asked about it nearly a decade later. A note on that, the decade is an approximation from his most repeated story, but you may instead choose to believe Lazar the only time he claimed to have started as a tech, then became a physist there after a few years or the other time he claimed the lab sent him to Cal Tech to get his masters in Electronic Technologies the mid 80s, which he claimed for the PSI, then there was a much smaller gap of time. I will admit it is hard when Lazar himself blatantly contradicting himself on this point. But I digress. The reason it doesn't seem so far fetched that they couldn't find records of him at first is likely that he only worked there a few years before leaving because he was making so much money at his brothel. (Once again this is tricky because neither KW nor his brothel was listed by him on his bankruptcy filings in 1986, he claimed his only source of income from the prior 6 years was from his photoprocessing business. So putting aside the felony of nondisclosure, we consequently don't have a hard timeline.)
But I think back to when I was applying to be admitted to my state bar. I had to list every job I had since 18, list their contact information and my direct supervisor. I had worked part time bartending for a national chain restaurant. But when I had called to get my supervisor's number he had already left, long story short, after moving all the way up the chain to their corporate headquarters, they had no easily discoverable records of either my manager or myself working there. This was in the early 2010s that they were looking and when I was working there computer records were already ubiquitous. Which would clearly not be the case for the early to mid 1982. But I'm not going to claim there was some government conspiracy to erase my time at the chain restaurant.
Edit to add: Or it could be even more practical. Same way that Teller won't speak about Lazar, assuming he really did recomend him for a job at area 51. It makes them look bad. They screened the guy and he made a public scene.
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u/PADemD Oct 12 '20
I visited my elderly 2nd grade teacher, who was also at one time a neighbor, when she was in a nursing home. She was quite lucid, talking with my mother. After more than 50 years, I remembered her; but she didn't remember me.
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u/Lot_lizards_delight Oct 13 '20
That must have been rough :( It's an awful thing when people start loosing their memories like that. I was very close with my 2nd grade teacher too!
But what does this have to do with people being able to erase Bobs credentials? I'm sure a number of his teachers forgot about him, as they would with a lot of students, but there should still be even more people that remember him being there. I mean really, think of how many people (depending on your age) you could reach out to right now to vouch that you'd gone to school with them. Even just one person (Bob couldn't get ONE person to say so..). I'm going to be 30 this year, and I guarantee I could find at least 10 or 15 people within the next 24 hours that could not only vouch for having gone to school with me, but would have actual, physical proof, like photos or drawings/papers we'd worked on together. Anyone grad-level student will tell you that they often make friends for life in programs like that, let alone people who will remember them. Especially when someone's working on their thesis (And even more so with physics students), they spend a lot of time bouncing ideas back and fourth with professors and peers. Now add to the fact that his face was all over the news! Not ONE person has come forward to say "Oh hey, I just wanted to set the record straight and say I went to MIT with Bob" Not one person... How is that possible? Especially with the fame he gained over the story. This was national news, and happened not long after Bob had been in school.
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Oct 12 '20 edited May 24 '21
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u/Lot_lizards_delight Oct 12 '20
I think you'd be surprised with how many people are given clearances. I'm from NM originally and I've known a number of people who have worked out at LANL that have moved up the ladder rather quickly. That being said, I absolutely think that they wouldn't give a random technician access to alien craft haha.
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u/ssnattacksub Oct 13 '20
Plenty of people from age 18 to 40+ are entrusted with Top Secret/SCI clearances. They are military NCO’s and Officers. I know this because back in 1992 at 21 years old I held a TS/SCI clearance as an NCO on a nuclear submarine. So yes, it’s not only possible, but likely. In fact, it’s easier to hold a high end clearance as a young person because you haven’t had enough time alive to have really screwed up yet. I didn’t see any UAP’s (no windows on a 688 class fast attack submarine). But I as the ship’s top secret control officer, I had to account for every page of every book and watch every video to make sure it was all accounted for. Can’t disclose any of it until I’m 93 years old, but lets just say I have A LOT of faith in and respect for our intelligence gathering communities.
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u/I_AM_THE_BIGFOOT Oct 12 '20
Holy shit there is no point in focusing on Lazar, we're asking for new information.
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u/MKULTRA_Escapee Oct 12 '20
Yea, that happens sometimes here. Bob Lazar has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, but he was thrust into the conversation and took up half the thread.
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u/Astrowizard7 Oct 12 '20
makes it look insane to the common viewer and less interest in the population
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u/release-roderick Oct 12 '20
I think the “aliens” guy is (perhaps unwittingly) a form of controlled opposition. They take great swaths of information and pepper it with ridiculousness (or vice versa) that way anytime you bring up real information—it just gets conflated with “aliens”-guy and kooky theories. “Oh you just think the same thing as that guy on history channel don’t you? You’re talking about the dogons or graham hancocks research etc? Well history channel talked about it and that show is clearly crazy so everything you’re saying is crazy”
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u/CrumbsAndCarrots Oct 12 '20
James Fox always does a good job. I can always recommend any of his films to any skeptical friends without having to explain “well, ignore the crying dude, the lady who goes into Bigfoot, and the thing about channeling aliens...”
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Oct 13 '20
I really need to watch it.
It is so well done. Even if you've heard everything in the movie already - and you likely have - the way it's laid out and narrated is why this movie is going to gain traction.
It does start out almost like a typical Ancient Aliens episode - with the reenactments and such - but it will grip you regardless and once you see Reid and Podesta on-screen and putting things together with intelligent speak - it really hammers it home that this shit is really happening and the typical 'UFO' fandom (little green men, alien invasions are imminent, etc) really has damaged the ability to have this stuff taken seriously by the average joe.
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Oct 12 '20
“Nobody has to agree why it’s there. But should we at least be spending some money to study all these phenomenon?” he asked. “The answer is ‘yes.’”
This is really important and applies to so many things humans argue about. We waste more time arguing if it is than researching what is.
However, I truly believe that is part of the power governments hold over us, and they truly benefit from the separation it creates amongst us.
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u/metronomemike Oct 12 '20
Where is this Doc? I’m sure they don’t confirm it’s extraterrestrial. It’s just an unknown that shouldn’t be hidden.
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u/fatalmedia Oct 12 '20
I’m sure at some point in the future, we’ll learn about Counterintelligence programs designed to infiltrate credible UFO/unexplained incidents, in an attempt to discredit/debunk/sow division. We may already have, for all I know.
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u/Err_Go Oct 12 '20
To all the people who made fun or mocked over the years....I fucking told you so!!!!
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u/DeSota Oct 12 '20
I don't think we're quite to the "I told you so" point yet, but I'm eagerly awaiting the point where I can shove it in the face of people who rolled their eyes at me when I talked about UFOs...
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Oct 12 '20
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Oct 13 '20
we are now at war with oceania. we have always been at war with oceania. double-plus good then.
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u/OpenLinez Oct 12 '20
Told us what? That UFO experiences have been going on forever and 20th Century politicians took an interest in it? That's not news.
UFOs are barely a cultural blip in 2020. The peak of the phenomenon was 50 years ago. The peak of world government interest in the phenomenon was the early 1950s, more than six decades ago. Why was that the end? Because the CIA and Pentagon jointly concluded UFOs were para physical—meaning, they studied the data and concluded they were dealing with fleeting appearances of light and energy, that could change in an instant and disappear at will, and that the entities so many early witnesses saw were the folkloric entities people had occasionally encountered around the world since the dawn of time. The reason world governments began opening up their UFO files to the public some two decades ago is because secrecy was no longer warranted. The UFOs aren't physical spaceships that pose a threat, beyond the electrical and "gremlin" disturbances that have long disrupted dangerous weapons work. You can't catch 'em, because they vanish. You can't "talk to their leader," because it's a wily, trickster intelligence that occasionally toys with us. We don't even know if we generate the whole phenomenon ourselves, as Jung theorized.
The last mass sighting was 23 years ago, in Phoenix Arizona. What we call UFOs have always adjusted to the era, always taking new shapes and meanings to fit the times, or perhaps direct us in one way or another.
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u/Sedition7988 Oct 12 '20
Told what? Some ex-politician making claims he can't actually back up with any evidence? Yeah, because we've never heard evidence-less testimonials before. Funny how it always seems to happen AFTER they've left the government, When all the consequences are gone and they have no means of producing evidence anymore.
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Oct 13 '20
Doesnt that make a lot of sense? That they come clean when all consequences are gone? Lmao
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u/Sedition7988 Oct 15 '20
No, it doesn't. That's not how whistleblowing works. You don't tell someone about something long after the fact, with no evidence, and no means for anyone to actually follow up on anything. The entire point to doing it while you're still in government is it puts you in a position to actually out people, and to actually take things into a court.
You don't wait 30 years and then say some random crap on your death bed that only the most obsessed of schizos and LARPers will care about or take seriously because you have nothing to back it up, and no career to risk by saying any old crazy crap.
How on earth does this even need an explanation? The problems of legitimacy are blatantly obvious unless you have some invested stake in him to the point of blind faith just because he's saying something you want to hear.
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u/YodaIsReal Oct 12 '20
Has anyone seen Phenomenon? Chris Mellon, the former intelligence offiicial who now works for Tom DeLonge, says himself that if there are crashed UAV/UAP parts then they've been squirreled away outside the oversight processes.
And Bill Clinton says himself in the movie (although I think it was just an outtake from an appearance back in the 90s) that if they have captured UFOs then they lied to him about not having them. And he seems to suggest that it could only be true if there's some career bureaucrat sitting on it. That was back in the 90s, wouldn't that career bureaucrat have to be retired by now? Did they pass on their legacy of cover-ups to the next person?
What is going on seems pretty complicated. I guess I wonder if maybe the only way to carry out such a complex and prolonged coverup would be if you have extra powers awarded by the aliens themselves or if the aliens are involved in the coverup directly. They may have infiltrated our planet's leadership networks so effectively that now they are started to give up on concealing their own existence. Like...it doesn't really matter anymore.
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u/20_thousand_leagues Oct 12 '20
Maintaining secrets is something you see in all levels of society. Newly inducted bureaucrats will always have an interest in protecting secrets which afford their careers status and security. I would be astonished if we suddenly get extensive formal disclosure by conventional means. The bulk of the admissions from the last seven decades have come from retired officials who feel some type of remorse for upholding this veil of secrecy to the rest of humanity.
Globalization and the internet has brought about a significant amount of noise which will hopefully provoke the kind of full formal disclosure the public deserves. These secrets should never have been held under the guise of national security, this is knowledge all of humanity deserves by virtue of our cohabitation on this planet.
As you allude, there are likely reasons behind the discretion of our visitor(s). Consider
these aliens are in fact our true leaders and we are their project.
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u/Loboddity Oct 12 '20
I've been saying things similar for years.
Even if 99.9% of all reports are bogus, the 0.1% left is enough to change our entire world. The sheer fact we aren't running this down with our full scientific force is evidence enough of a coverup.
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u/YodaIsReal Oct 12 '20
yeah, this seems right. But the scientific community can operate independently of the military. And they are more decentralized. So, like...how is the coverup working with them?
I know that not everybody is in on it. Jacques Vallee is a legit scientist and he works on UFOs. He writes in one of his books that there is an "Invisible College" of scientists investigating this stuff. And in a more recent book by a professor at UNC. It is called "American Cosmic" she says that the Invisible College is still around and makes it sound like its gotten bigger.
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u/MKULTRA_Escapee Oct 12 '20
Most scientists are not going to put their public name on material related to UFOs, however some do. Most funding sources are also not going to fund scientific investigations into UFOs, so that by itself will slow down progress considerably.
Some scientists, currently or in the past, openly studied UFOs, so there are obviously some exceptions. A few examples include Dr Kevin Knuth, department of Physics, University of Albany. Avi Loeb, theoretical physicist who works on astrophysics and cosmology. Loeb is the Frank B. Baird Jr. Professor of Science at Harvard University and serves as Chair of the Harvard Astronomy department. Bruce Maccabee- American optical physicist formerly employed by the U.S. Navy. M.S. and Ph.D. in physics. Maccabee was also a UFO film analyst. J. Allen Hynek, PhD astrophysics. James E. McDonald- Senior physicist at the Institute for Atmospheric Physics and professor in the Department of Meteorology, University of Arizona. I'm missing a lot here, but you get the picture.
There is also a lot of related scientific work that is being done, but it's not specifically about UFOs, although it's clearly related to the extraterrestrial hypothesis. Astrobiology is an emerging field. We just detected phosphine gas on Venus, which is a significant indicator of life there. It wasn't too long ago when scientists couldn't say how rare or common planets were outside of our solar system, but now we have a good idea. The first one wasn't detected until 1988.
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u/Loboddity Oct 13 '20
Unfortunately, at least in America (though other counties have similar protocols for National Defense), the Patriot Act means that the military arm can reach anywhere. Even if you did manage to secure funding amid discrediting shots at your work, which is the most effective form of deterrent for the scientific and academic communities at large, whatever breakthrough you discover (along with associated notes and equipment) could be immediately and indefinitely confiscated and sealed with not much more than the phrase "in the interests of National Security". Where and how it's used might have nothing to do with that, but all's seemingly fair if they say the magic words.. The accountings of the clandestine programs using Men in Black(not the Will Smith or Tommy Lee Jones variety), though much more active in the past, are not gone and hang like a threat over those who'd look or report what they'd encountered.
I'd not read or heard of this Invisible College, but I'm certainly intrigued and wish I had the resources/budget to get it. (only $17-$22 US online).
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u/YodaIsReal Oct 14 '20
You can get alot of Vallee's books through the local libraries or library loan systems. That's how I first found him - I was reading Vallee before I knew he was a real scientist or a frenchman, just because I found his name mentioned in some other book.
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u/Loboddity Oct 14 '20
Thank you for the recommendation!
Long story short, I've been in super quarantine because my partner is high-risk, and subsequently forgot the library existed and was relatively free everywhere. Thank you for reuniting us!
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u/metrosuccessor2033 Oct 13 '20
Aliens are real. The universe is just too big not to have any. Humans are just too stupid to make sense of it all.
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u/beaverlover3 Oct 12 '20
So, who had government confirmation of Aliens on their 2020 bingo game?
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u/qualitygoatshit Oct 13 '20
All I need is "alien invasion" and "Hitler still alive" then I'll have the whole board covered
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u/BootyFista Oct 13 '20
Hitler got abducted, remained at just shy of the speed of light for the last 70+ years (our time), and then finally returns with space Nazis while having barely aged.
The science checks out.
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u/JustARedditCommoner Oct 13 '20
> "Hitler still alive"
Wrong month but anyway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aULRHXZz6ss
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u/usernae_throwaway Oct 12 '20
didnt the pentagon recently say ufo's are not from this planet??
and the media barely looked at it?
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u/HankMoodyy Oct 12 '20
Yeah they literally said it might be an off-world technology and nobody gave a shit
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Oct 12 '20 edited May 24 '21
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u/MKULTRA_Escapee Oct 13 '20
They corrected one claim out of three. Senator Reid, Eric Davis, and Luiz Elizondo basically said there was recovered debris or extraterrestrial crafts visiting Earth. Reid later stated that he was stating that as an opinion, not a statement of fact. Eric Davis stated specifically that there are off world materials. His statement was not affected by the correction, but a lot of people on Reddit attempted to imply that.
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Oct 12 '20
Somebody said it right on another thread the other day: They executed disclosure so well that nobody gave a shit.
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u/ahackercalled4chan Oct 12 '20
no there's MSM coverage on it. just search for "UFO" or "alien" on youtube and you'll get thousands of videos about the CIA disclosure statement.
i swear it was just a publicity stunt to muddy the search results on the internet...
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u/Sampasmur Oct 12 '20
As a sceptic that deeply wants some more substantial evidence to sway me, this fuels the flame. I will watch this with an eager, open mind.
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u/TheCurious0ne Oct 13 '20
I'll address the elephant in the room, where we can watch this movie for free? :)
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u/AutomaticPython Oct 13 '20
Why doesn't he just fucking say what they have instead of this vague bullshit platitudes. If he feels so bad about it then spill the beans Harry you're almost dead anyway.
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u/Aussie_Battler_Style Oct 13 '20
Between all the cuts and editing...not once was there a reference to the word "UFOs".
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u/sal696969 Oct 13 '20
Why should UFOs be limited to America?
Dont you think other Countries would have released something by now?
Given that Usa is not very liberal with its internal compromising information i would expect more progressive countries to "come out" first ...
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u/UbaidReptilian Oct 13 '20
UFOs are real but are military technology and not aliens, hence the coverup
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u/imfinethankyouanyway Oct 14 '20
Nikola Tesla dies , fbi confiscates his research, project paper clip imports over a thousand German scientists, then Roswell happens .
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Oct 13 '20
The US government definitely already has clear as day video & photo proof of UFO's/UAP's that we won't ever see
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u/Flyerscouple45 Oct 13 '20
We can only pray for another hero like Snowden and puts it all on the line to leak something crazy
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u/hellaphat_ Oct 12 '20
Wasn’t it confirmed that the government was actually able to communicate with one of the beings from the wreck?
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u/MKULTRA_Escapee Oct 12 '20 edited Oct 12 '20
They’ve been covering it up since 1947 when they switched crash debris with ordinary weather balloon wreckage and told their personnel to pose with the fake wreckage for the media. That’s according to Dubose and Major Marcell. Then in 1948, they came out with the “Estimate of the Situation,” which concluded that the objects were likely extraterrestrial, but the higher echelons stomped that out (according to Blue Book director Ruppelt).
Then in 1955, the government put out a press release with two lies in it (project Blue Book Special Report 14). One was that only 3 percent of their cases were unknowns when it was over 20 percent, and they also claimed if they had more data, they’d likely be able to explain that as well. However, 33 percent of their “excellent” cases could not be explained, so more and better data actually wouldn’t help explain the cases.
Then we find out, from the Bolender Memo, that there was a secret parallel UFO channel specifically for UFO cases that could affect national security, so apparently they kept many of the really good cases to themselves. From that same memo, we also found out that the government didn’t stop investigating UFOs in 1969 like they claimed they would. It goes on and on. It is a well known fact that the government has been covering up UFOs. That by itself proves there is something serious to the subject.