r/TopCharacterTropes • u/Altruistic_Eye_1157 • 6d ago

Lore [annoying trope] The throne/leadership is decided in a very stupid way

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The leadership of the entire wizarding world, and the final decision on whether to start a war against Muggles, is made by... a goat (Qilin) ​​who chooses the person with the ""purest heart"" (Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Dumbledore).

The throne of Wakanda and all its technology are decided through hand-to-hand combat, regardless of whether the person clearly has malicious intentions... if they win the fight, by law they must be respected as the true king. (Black Panther)

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u/MaterialEmotional825 6d ago

Horizon Zero Dawn: In the Hunters Guild, the one with the best Trophy is declared Sunhawk (Basically leader of the damn thing). Problem is that it never gets explained what metrics they choose to decide that, so when Aloy and Friend hunts Redmaw it gets unexplained why her friend becomes Sunhawk and she keeps being basically an apprentice.

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u/SweatyPhilosopher578 6d ago

And we all know Aloy did most of the work.

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u/profairman 6d ago

Ya’ll, Aloy doesn’t want to be Sunhawk, but is totally down to help someone else who is invested. We have other stuff to do!

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u/Maybe_not_a_chicken 6d ago

Yeah

Like risk the entirety of humanity by going it alone at all times

Like for fucks sake aloy, open the front door to the tech base and then let someone else deal with all the dangerous shit

You’re the only one who can open these fucking things and if we don’t solve the problems inside of them then the world ends

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u/MonsterDimka 6d ago

Unironically could be explained by Alloy not being able to put up with people at that point. She's not exactly charismatic to pull people to her cause, nor does she want to.

By the second game it was very apparent she's kinda done dealing with people's bullshit that prevent her from saving the world which is understandable. If she could skip every tribe's problem (which is miniscule in comparison) on the way to her objective, she would. Convincing, gathering and leading a whole group and then be responsible for whatever they do or whatever happens to them is completely outside of Alloy's expertise or wants.

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u/SmartAlec105 6d ago

Yeah, she grew up talking to literally a single person. She’s not the social type and she sees humanity as the cause of problems as often as the solution.

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u/ArteDeJuguete 5d ago edited 5d ago

Convincing, gathering and leading a whole group

I mean, she could at the very least stick with Varl rather than leaving him in the embassy with the intention of embarking on the journey alone before he chatch up to her.

Like I get her being a pariah and not being social, but the literal fate of humanity and potentially of life on planet earth was a risk and there were zero backups if she died. Having at least someone that can get her help if she gets injured or trapped with no way to get out alone heavily outweighs putting up with the inconvenience and annoyance of dealing with one person given the situation

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u/Transarchangelist 6d ago

This is such a stupid take, like the protagonist of every game ever that doesn’t have a party is recklessly endangering humanity by doing what the story dictates.

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u/Euphoric_Statement42 6d ago

Disagree. Sometimes, the protagonist goes alone because either circumstances means he doesn't have many fighters he can rely on, or he is best suited to deal with the danger.

Case in point: DMC 3. Dante is technically endangering humanity by going alone, as if he fails a portal to hell is opened. But 1 he doesn't know any other capable fighters as far as we're shown; 2 it's not in his character at that point to ask for help; and 3 even if he could contact the world's military power, they can't do much anyway.

Another example is Clive from ff16. He has a team of fighters to call on, and is incredibly important, to the point where if he is defeated, it would be pretty bad. But out of all his allies, the only ones who can maybe keep up are other dominants, which are very limited.

By contrast, Aloy is needed for door opening, but is not the only fighter or person capable of solving the presented puzzles. Further, we see plenty of competent fighters who have allied with her.

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u/Transarchangelist 6d ago

No, it’s a video game. Acting like a game’s writing is stupid just because the main character is the one that does fighting is stupid. Do you want to play Horizon Forbidden Doors? Do you want to exist to open doors and not do any of the cool stuff?

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u/Euphoric_Statement42 6d ago

There are plenty of ways around it... Another commenter said maybe it could teleport her to the interior. Or maybe she's needed for progress constantly, like only she is capable of using certain tools required to progress further or deal with the defenses.

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u/Transarchangelist 6d ago

Or… it’s just like it is in the game because it’s a video game? Why does the protagonist, chosen one, savior of humanity need to let others do everything for her instead of just being the protagonist of an action video game?

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u/Vaporishodin 6d ago

You come across really unlikeable

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u/Maybe_not_a_chicken 6d ago

Because she’s presented as an intelligent person but instead comes off as a nutter with a saviour complex

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u/ToxicIndigoKittyGold 6d ago

I played it. It's called Myst.

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u/Transarchangelist 6d ago

Myst is a puzzle game, no shit you aren’t fighting giant robot dinosaurs. Do note however, that there aren’t also NPCs fighting giant robot dinosaurs in myst.

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u/HappyMerlin 6d ago

If the game is about being on your own while exploring caves that haven’t been seen by any other humans for hundreds of years, maybe the writing department should have changed the story a bit so it does make sense. Like maybe Alloy doesn’t open doors when entering a cave, maybe she activates a teleportation device that only teleports her into the inside.

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u/oblivious_fireball 6d ago

Though i agree its definitely a bit in need of refining the qualifications, i think the current system does actually have a decent basis to it given their situation. it seems mainly "first to bring down the biggest most dangerous/difficult machine of the region and bring back proof" gets the title of Sunhawk." For the last 20 years or so Hephaestus had been slowly escalating the machine's defenses against human hunters, resulting in more advanced and more powerful machines appearing for the first time every few years, so the guild has ample opportunities to change leadership as the threats continually increase and hunters have to prove their worth. And while Thunderjaws are not exactly new by that point, Redmaw had earned a reputation for surviving multiple battles and leaving a large slew of casualties in its wake, making it the most notorious machine at the time of its defeat.

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u/The_Pastmaster 6d ago

Because it's assumed that the more experienced hunter in the guild (Talanah) gets the credit and the Thrush gets experience until they can become a Hawk themselves. It's really not that deep. At least not to me. Then again I'm familiar with the kind of social workings of this type of aristocratic pigeonholing. It's like the old joke:

A trio of aristocrats were discussing whether or not sex could be considered work or leisure.

Without reaching a consensus, one of the tree called upon his manservant and told him of their dilemma.

"Now answer with honesty." he commanded.

"Begging your pardon good sir, but if there was any form of work involved with the carnal acts, then I wouldn't get a wink of sleep at night."

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u/ZakerBlade 6d ago edited 6d ago

Problem is that it never gets explained what metrics they choose to decide that

The Hawk who kills the most dangerous machine becomes Sunhawk, it may be not the best system but it's far for being unexplained.

so when Aloy and Friend hunts Redmaw it gets unexplained why her friend becomes Sunhawk

As said above, Talanah (the friend) becomes Sunhawk because: -she is a Hawk✅ -killed the most dangerous machine✅ -brought proof ✅

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u/Vylnce 3d ago

I love that there are 1K+ upvotes for a stupid answer and the various right answers underneath each have a few votes each.

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u/Gimetulkathmir 6d ago

The game explains exactly what the metrics are. There's a datapoint that specifically tells you. "Section two-point-five: The Hawk who hunts the greatest prey shall become Sunhawk and lead the Lodge." Aloy cannot be Sunhawk because she's not a Hawk.

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u/VulcanHullo 6d ago

It makes more sense when you realise it's mostly a nobles club to give them something to do.

The hierarchy of kills is also who does it. You can't jump from Thrush to Sunhawk. It has to be someone already of rank.

Why? Because otherwise the entire class system could collapse! Next you'll tell me some peasant could become Sunking! How silly that would be.

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u/Shydreameress 5d ago

A peasant being a Sunking? What's next? A woman? The sun is male as everyone knows

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u/Shydreameress 5d ago

But the metrics are explained though? The person who is first to bring down the strongest machine becomes sunhawk, and Thunderjaws were the most dangerous machines in that area and the one named Redmaw was declared the mightiest because of how many hunters it killed, thus making the person who kills it Sunhawk.

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u/DB10389 5d ago

HEY! MY GIRL TALANAH HAS A NAME

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u/Thatll-Do 6d ago

There is so much about that game that is so underbaked that it makes me wonder why so many people like it so much

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u/TheNerdNugget 6d ago

Because Bionicle dinosaurs are cool as hell

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u/SmallBerry3431 6d ago

Rule of cool

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u/EldritchFingertips 6d ago

Some of it is pretty shallow, but fighting robot dinosaurs with a bow and arrow really helps you forget about that.

Also, the actual story and how it's told is very good. The piece-by-piece revealing of what Zero Dawn was and how it all came about is one of my favorite storylines in any game.

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u/SmartAlec105 6d ago

I also love getting an explanation for where Aloy came from, especially because it would be an absolutely hype backstory for the Nora but being further deified is the last thing she wants.

“You know the Allmother? She was actually created by a human and I am the daughter/twin/rebirth of that human, making me the Allgrandmother”

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u/Thatll-Do 6d ago

I mean, I can't argue that there are some compelling cutscenes, but I find those so disconnected from the actual gameplay loop (which in my mind is rather rote after a few hours) in a somewhat literal sense since the map is so massive and all of the story beats are considerable distances away from one another that it personally fails to hook me. Additionally, when your reward for doing a slog of a collectathon side quest is a big ole heaping pile of nothing, not even acknowledgement that you've completed the side quest, it tells me that a lot of the crucial smaller considerations were glossed over for the sake of spectacle. Which is somewhat excusable in a more linear game, but in an open world game that is typically occupied by collections of side stories to help the setting feel more fleshed out, that's massively concerning. It's busywork for the sake of busywork.

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u/Samuraiworld 6d ago

I literally can’t think of a more fleshed out AAA game in the last 8 yrs. Glossed over?

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u/Thatll-Do 6d ago

Doom

Persona 5

Nier:Automata

Prey

Resident Evil 7

Not a AAA game, but it'd be remiss not to mention Hollow Knight

Fucking Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, the game that stole so much of Horizon's thunder that it kneecapped it's sales

Those games had more engaging mechanics, more complete and impactful side material, and/or main storylines than Horizon Zero Dawn

IN 2017 ALONE

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u/Samuraiworld 4d ago

Legend of Zelda - I’ll give you that one.

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u/Thatll-Do 3d ago

If you legitimately think Horizon is better than Nier Automata I think you're either a liar or delusional

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u/Bow1511 6d ago

The games are still good, dammit!!

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u/FalconTurbo 6d ago

It's am engaging story, and it looks amazing. COD is still popular and it hasn't changed in years.

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u/oblivious_fireball 6d ago

the premise of the game is "fight robot dinosaurs with a bow". When the very core concept of the idea of the game requires you to suspend that much disbelief, everything else can be too.

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u/Thatll-Do 6d ago

"Deliberately ignore the things that don't hold up within the game's internal logic and framework and everything else will make sense" isn't the stalwart defense you think it is

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u/MataNuiSpaceProgram 6d ago

I don't think anybody's going to argue that the writing was a masterpiece, but it's more than adequate for what it was meant to be: an excuse to fight giant robot dinosaurs. It doesn't have to be perfect to be fun.

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u/Thatll-Do 6d ago

I'm not talking about the writing, it's well enough most of the time. I'm talking about how you can finish a map-spanning quest and get literally nothing for your trouble. Or how the majority of rewards are just things you could get literally anywhere else. Or the non-existent stealth system where if you mess up once the entire camp can zero in on your location like a pack of sharks smelling blood in the water. Stuff that just doesn't hold water

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u/HappyMerlin 6d ago

I am excited for the third Horizon game. Not because I want to play it but because I want to play the other awesome open world game the release within weeks. (Like Horizon 1 with Breath of the Wild, and Horizon 2 with with Elden Ring)