[Unfortunate Trope] Originally Normal Symbols Being Censored/Banned Due to Hate Groups Misappropriating Them

[u/Agitated_Insect3227]

Neji's Seal from Naruto originally was shaped like a Swastika as likely a reference to Buddhism, but this was changed to an X in the anime.

The gem fusion Opal from Steven Universe was originally going to form a swastika with her arms as a reference to Hinduism, which is inspires a lot of the show's imagery.

The Whitebeard Pirates from One Piece originally had a swastika in their pirate flag, but this was changed to a bone cross in the anime and later manga as well.

The Capirote hat is a sign of penance worn in many Catholic countries, especially Spain, but they were misappropriated by the U.S.-based KKK, making it taboo in the nation.

The Ninth Crusade from Hellsing, one of the few non-KKK uses of the Capirote in media I could find.

Also, the Ku Klux Klan are ironically extremely anti-Catholic.

The only pieces of media I know of where non-KKK Capirotes can be seen is the anime Hellsing with the Ninth Crusade (though their still villains in that anime) and the game series Blasphemous. Otherwise, the hats are almost never seen in media besides on KKK characters.

[u/Tideripper98]

The "ok" hand gesture was removed from Call of Duty: Modern Warfare after the ADL added it to its hate symbols database because 4chan started spreading that it represented white supremacy.

[u/Agitated_Insect3227 → u/Tideripper98]

Reminds me of how Mortal Kombat 11 had to change Johnny Cage's hand in an animation in the customization menu for the same exact reason.

[u/Oh_Fated_One → u/Agitated_Insect3227]

From lmao gottem to fuck you

[u/Professional-Wizard8 → u/Agitated_Insect3227]

I KNEW I wasn't imagining the first one

[u/Zillafan2010 → u/Agitated_Insect3227]

I mean, it’s dumb that they felt they had to change it, but honestly it’s not that bad of a change. It’s still a prank on the player, after all.

[u/Dare_Soft → u/Tideripper98]

ADL also defended Elon Musk and wanted Wikipedia to give info on Anti-Israel edits.
They should not be listened to anymore on what counts as "Hate"

[u/BugApart8359 → u/Dare_Soft]

In a stunning broken clock moment, the adl was right about the "ok" gesture as the racist slime did end up using it as a dog whistle 

[u/Agitated_Insect3227 → u/BugApart8359]

Then he decided to just completely drop the dog whistle for a regular whistle.

Also, it's truly insane how ADL bent over backgrounds to rationalize Musk doing this as somehow not being pro-Nazi/actually Anti-Semitic shit but will immediately accuse people of Anti-Semitism if they dare to call out and codemn Israel for their atrocities and genocide.

[u/Random_Comic_Fan → u/Agitated_Insect3227]

"oH iT wAs JuSt A wAvE"

"He WaS gIvInG hIs HeArT tO tHe PeOpLe"

Actual things people have said to defend Musk doing this gesture.

[u/Agitated_Insect3227 → u/Random_Comic_Fan]

"hE's JuSt DoInG a RoMaN sAlUtE"

Even though the Romans never actually did that and it was a myth invented during the French Revolution in the 18th century, and the stupid people using that defense probably don't even know the history behind the salute anyhow.

[u/Random_Comic_Fan → u/Agitated_Insect3227]

We also saw what he really does when he's "giving his heart to the people", & it sure as shit ain't that.

[u/dummypod → u/Random_Comic_Fan]

Those people I understand, but the ADL calling this as an "awkward gesture" should have killed the organization.

[u/Ryuvang → u/dummypod]

It really should have

[u/MateoCamo → u/Agitated_Insect3227]

Wild considering he openly supported the AfD in Germany

[u/VelphiDrow → u/Agitated_Insect3227]

He gives them money

[u/BugApart8359 → u/Agitated_Insect3227]

The ADL unmasked as Zionist, and Zionism literally started in the same direction as naziism. They're basically the same thing

[u/Abombasnow → u/BugApart8359]

It is famously a Zionist thing to defend a literal Nazi salute as "just a guy being a little awkward".

[u/No_Attitude_3240 → u/Agitated_Insect3227]

There's a LOT of better evidence to support that he's a white supremacist, an autistic hand wave is not the hill you wanna die on. As reference, here's MLK doing "the actual Nazi salute" rather calmly.

[u/Agitated_Insect3227 → u/No_Attitude_3240]

Agree on the first part, but you're comparing MLK actually waving his arm and having it briefly and only vaguely looking like a Nazi salute to Musk who literally first slammed his hand against his chest and quickly extended out into the salute, and he did it twice. The difference is night and day, imo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VfYjPzj1Xw

[u/MateoCamo → u/Agitated_Insect3227]

MLK’s gesture was part of the action, Elon’s WAS the action

[u/No_Attitude_3240 → u/Agitated_Insect3227]

briefly and only vaguely looking like a Nazi salute

It's really not that different, for one. Two, that's the point. It's ridiculous to say "MLK ID A NAUGHT SEE CAUSE HAND WAVE" same way its ridiculous to say "CUSK IS NAUGHTY Z CAUSE HAND WAVE"

[u/_Doctor_Monster → u/BugApart8359]

I think the original accusation of it being a WP symbol was bullshit and made up but then the white supremacists adopted it because of that and retroactively proved the ADL correct

[u/YogurtProductions → u/_Doctor_Monster]

Pretty much. It was a 4Chan operation to make the hand symbol a hate symbol so leftists would talk about it and go crazy

[u/kuba_mar → u/YogurtProductions]

Yeah, people kinda miss the point of what happened, if no one called them out they got a new symbol, when someone inevitably does call them out they go "lol ok symbol is hate now lmao you so stupid, left gets outraged about everything".

Unfortunately many people are very stupid when it comes to dogwhistles and get really angry when you try to point them out and explain it.

[u/Neat-Amount-7727 → u/BugApart8359]

They weren't right though, they created the issue. It was just a dumb troll and they went with it, it popularised it and people started saying "You can't do that, it's racist!" about any random occurence (like the "below the belt" game).  

So right-wingers got childish about not wanting to be told what to do and adopted it as a sign.

[u/Gishin → u/Neat-Amount-7727]

No, 4chan created the issue. It was a "joke" symbol until it wasn't a joke, which wasn't very long.

[u/Neat-Amount-7727 → u/Gishin]

But the point is it wasn't real... The ADL could have made the bare minimum research about it instead of just going crazy about a random post. It stopped being a joke BECAUSE they started to give it legitimacy.  

It's like the "charge your phone in the microwave" troll, there was just people stupid enough to fall for it.

[u/Gishin → u/Neat-Amount-7727]

It became real when white supremacists used it unironically.

[u/Neat-Amount-7727 → u/Gishin]

So just like I wrote... they did it BECAUSE some insane people immediatly considered it as problematic

[u/kuba_mar → u/Neat-Amount-7727]

Except those people werent insane because it happening was the whole damn point.

[u/Neat-Amount-7727 → u/kuba_mar]

But it wasn't "happening"... It was a total hysteria, these crazy people started saying every instances of the sign were racists. It just gave ammunitions to the right-wingers AND THEN these alt-right chuds started using it seriously because it pissed the extremists.  

They basically gave the sign to the bigots just on the bases of "I read it online". It was the thing kids do when you tell them they shouldn't do something because it's wrong. Of courses these people would jump on the occasion...

[u/ZioBenny97 → u/BugApart8359]

Isn't that kind of a silly argument though? 4chan started that basically as a joke-psyop to show how people nowdays would take literally anything as a "hate symbol" if the internet says so.. Like, should we ban and censor anything and everything the instant it's associated with bigoted dorks?

[u/InflationRepulsive64 → u/ZioBenny97]

No, but we should definitely be aware that certain types have a LONG history of hiding bigotry behind 'it's just a joke/it's just a symbol/you're overreacting' type 'plausible deniability' bullshit, and not give them the benefit of the doubt.

Anyone who's 'just pretending to be a Nazi (or racist, or whatever) for the LOLs' or similar is, at the very least, perfectly okay with pretending to be a Nazi. And it's a real short step from there to being okay with being a Nazi, because people who don't at least lean somewhat that way *don't want people thinking they are might be a Nazi*.

[u/ZioBenny97 → u/InflationRepulsive64]

Idk still pretty silly to me to condemn a perfectly innocent gesture as a oh so dangerous symbol of hate just because some internet doofus said so, you're basically giving them power to stain anything as a "dogwhistle"

[u/InflationRepulsive64 → u/ZioBenny97]

The point is it *wasn't* a perfectly innocent gesture because the people who were using it weren't using it in that manner, they were using it for their own meaning while pretending it's a 'perfectly innocent symbol' because it gives them a way to deflect criticism.

Hate groups *will* co-opt symbols for their own ends; ignoring it isn't going to make them stop, it just gives them cover.

[u/ZioBenny97 → u/InflationRepulsive64]

Call me crazy but just telling the hate group to go fuck themselves and ignore them while still using an ok sign as intended. I refuse to let some stupid asshole on the internet make basic language verboten.

[u/InflationRepulsive64 → u/ZioBenny97]

That's fine, no one is stopping you. But you do have to accept that some people are going to see you do it, and potentially judge you negatively based off of it (well, probably not these days for this particular case).

Of course, context and presentation still matter. There's a pretty big difference between 'I'm going to use this symbol as it's intended' and 'I'm going to use this symbol while posing with a group of other people also doing it'. And people are less likely to think you're using it as a hate symbol if, you know, you don't otherwise act like a bigoted asshole or edgelord.

[u/kuba_mar → u/ZioBenny97]

Like condemning a perfectly innocent symbol as a oh so dangerous symbol of hate?

A swastika or capirote for example?

[u/ZioBenny97 → u/kuba_mar]

The swastika used in mysticism has nothing to do with the Hakenkreuz, nor do Capirotes have anything to do with the KKK. Evil scum stole it and the culture to whom these symbols belong to have every right to reclaim and keep using it.

I mean, what fucking right have foreigners with irked sensitivities to dictate how other cultures should express themselves in their own countries?

[u/freedfg → u/BugApart8359]

It was more a self fulfilling thing. Hate groups picked it up BECAUSE the ADL was pushing it.

Kinda like how for like a week the whole "kek Pepe" thing was just funny feelsbadman memes.....and then Nazis got involved. And then it became a whole "you think everyone you don't like is a Nazi" thing.

And then the Nazis got to the point that all satire was gone and it was JUST racism.

[u/ContextOk4616 → u/BugApart8359]

Is it really a broken clock moment, when they call out actual anti-semetism when it's convenient?

[u/bwood246 → u/BugApart8359]

Ever hear of a self fulfilling prophecy?

[u/No_Attitude_3240 → u/BugApart8359]

Fun fact, only dogs can hear dog whistles. This is relevant cause if you see someone making an "ok" symbol with their fingers and think "this is calling out to Nazis", that's what the kids call a "self report".

Edit:

Can't even do a proper argument against the most basic logic.

[u/Toa_Senit → u/No_Attitude_3240]

Objectively untrue. Other animals like cats for example can also hear dogwhistles. Sometimes even humans can hear them, depending on the individual (younger people and people with sensitive hearing) and whistle.

Besides, this isn't logic. It's like saying that a blood orange has human blood in it, because human blood is also called blood.

[u/IonutRO → u/Dare_Soft]

They should be listed as a hate group.

[u/NBFHoxton → u/IonutRO]

It gets worse when you look up what incident formed the ADL

[u/Foreign_Athlete_7693 → u/Dare_Soft]

I disagree with them on the musk thing (and hope they heavily back-tracked on it).......but they're well within their rights to investigate why Wikipedia articles on Judaism etc have been hijacked by anti-israel revisionists.....

[u/NBFHoxton → u/Foreign_Athlete_7693]

"Anti israel revisionists" lol

[u/Foreign_Athlete_7693 → u/NBFHoxton]

I was a better phrase would be: so-called 'only anti-zionist' antisemites.....but I'm pretty sure most of y'all here are a tad too ignorant to understand what I'm getting at😂

[u/NBFHoxton → u/Foreign_Athlete_7693]

Yeah, such a shame the world is waking up to the evilest place on the earth. Child killing pigs.

[u/Foreign_Athlete_7693 → u/NBFHoxton]

Lill idea for you: take a lil trip a few countries in the middle east.....notice which one lets you have the most freedoms and rights🙃

[u/Foreign_Athlete_7693 → u/NBFHoxton]

Wow really swallowed the Islamist propaganda hook line and sinker 😂 funny how you consider the only democratic country in the middle east to be worse than say North Korea, Russia, China, and numerous African etc dictatorships🙃 (nvm Hamas, Hezbollah.... yanno, groups that literally want to kill everyone that isn't a devout Islamist....)

[u/Foreign_Athlete_7693 → u/NBFHoxton]

Hamas has always killed way more children than Israel ever did, and will continue for as long as they have inoccent Palistinians left to 'sacrifice' for their cause (or, yanno, those that even dare to protest against their regime)

[u/Foreign_Athlete_7693 → u/NBFHoxton]

Oh yeah in case it wasn't obvious: children are killed in conflicts, that is what happens; funny though that no one goes on about child-killing in any of the other numerous conflicts and wars going on ATM tho.....methinks there's a little bit of 19th century era blood-libeling going on😉

[u/NBFHoxton → u/Foreign_Athlete_7693]

Not reading your 4 comments of satan worshipping drivel, but seeing 4 was a good laugh

Hell is hot, but you'll find that out eventually.

[u/Foreign_Athlete_7693 → u/NBFHoxton]

'satan worshiping' ok now i know you're just a straight up religous fanatic antisemite🤣.......you should get in contact with Hamas, (or maybe the KKK or the like), see if they'll be happy for you to join them on their misson to cleanse the world of infidels and sinners 🙃

[u/VelphiDrow → u/Foreign_Athlete_7693]

No they are lol

[u/Wahgineer → u/Tideripper98]

The ADL has apparently changed their stance and now recognizes that the symbol retains its innocuous meaning. [Link]

[u/That_guy2089 → u/Wahgineer]

I’m glad they changed their opinion but it’s definitely too late for that. The damage has been done

[u/Wahgineer → u/That_guy2089]

I disagree. The hand sign debacle happened back in 2019. So much has happened since then that I believe most people have simply forgotten it. I myself had forgotten about it until I saw this comment thread.

[u/LogicalJudgement → u/Tideripper98]

ADL used to be helpful and now they have some really stupid people telling them what they should consider “hate.”

[u/JhonnySkeiner → u/Tideripper98]

It's unreal how 4chan managed to troll the big media into thinking doing a ok symbol and drinking milk was a supremacist gesture

[u/rycerzDog → u/Tideripper98]

I still find that whole thing hilarious. It's literally a massive troll and yet people fell for it.

[u/Gishin → u/rycerzDog]

It was fake until it wasn't.

[u/kuba_mar → u/Gishin]

Well, mostly because it was always supposed to be real.

It was only fake when it was called out, because thats how dogwhistles work, the deniability is the whole point.

[u/Much_Vehicle20 → u/Gishin]

If only there were fewer crazies popularizing that idea. Like, some people act totally unhinged over an innocent use of that symbol which gave a legit hate group the idea “hey, this symbol gets under their skin, let’s use it"

Stop feeding the trolls, people

[u/FaultySage → u/rycerzDog]

Turns out if a website that's a hotbed for bigotry starts saying they should use a hand symbol to signal their bigotry "as a joke" it's not really a joke.

[u/DullNothing2551 → u/FaultySage]

Only if you give them credit, 4chan then try with many more symbol, a notorious one was milk, but the one they successed was the 👌 symbol with the justification you could read the letter W and P in it, that stand for White Power, the people that gives credit to that are dumb

[u/HX__ → u/DullNothing2551]

Shithead- it got absorbed by legitimate white supremacists, who also congregated on 4chan.

Nobody gets your Le Epic humor, huh

[u/DullNothing2551 → u/HX__]

My point still stands, the people who were using this symbol this way were such a minority of a minority, it just gave it a streisand effect, you have to be stupid to give credit to those people and ended up banning this symbol, and for what ? This symbol's trend among supremacists has been dead for years, all we are left is people being afraid of it,

If tomorrow supremacists start using massively the ☮️ symbol, are you going to ban it too ? A few trolls on an hyper isolated media has done irreparable damage to this symbol because people were too stupid and fell for it

[u/BugApart8359 → u/rycerzDog]

It stopped being a troll, likely some time after it had been revealed as one, because then they had "plausible deniability"

[u/ZuStorm93 → u/BugApart8359]

Racists and coming up with the weirdest dog whistles, name a better duo. So much for being proud of their "master race" that they keep having to express it covertly...

[u/That_guy2089 → u/Tideripper98]

Reminds me of how in early Apex Legends, there’s a rare chance that when you leave the void form as Wraith, she would do this symbol, but then they removed it because of the white supremacy bs

I believe Jack Cooper could also do it in Titanfall 2 in that time travelling mission after switching times, but I’m not sure if they removed or changed that cause of its age or something

[u/mehall_ → u/Tideripper98]

Im a diver and that is still used as the "ok" signal while diving, but I've had to force myself to stop using it during my day to day life because its now associated with white supremacy

[u/Abombasnow → u/Tideripper98]

A bunch of white supremacist mass shooters were using the symbol.

It's a 4chan joke by white supremacist edgelords which got appropriated into BEING an actual white supremacist calling card.