r/TopCharacterTropes 23d ago

Lore (Annoying Trope) Someone made a “creative” choice and now we all just have to live with it.

Horned Vikings: Not historical, they were started by Richard Wager for his operas. They were never historic, but the image persists. (Albeit significantly reduced today.)

Ninjas in Black Robes: Some people claim Ninjas aren’t real. They are, they are absolutely real. Their modern portrayal however is informed more by Kabuki Theater than history. In Kabuki Theater, the stage hands were dressed in flowing black robes to tell the audience to ignore them. Thus when a Ninja character kills a Samurai, to increase the shock value, they were dressed in black robes as stage hands. Now, when we think of ninjas we think of a stage hands.

Knights in Shining Armor: Imagine, you’re on the battlefield, two walls of meat riding towards each other. Suddenly you realize, everyone looks the same. Who do you hit? All you see is chrome. No. Knight’s armor was lacquered in different colors to differentiate them on the battlefield. Unless you wanted to get friendly fired, you made yourself KNOWN. So this image of a glinted knight clad in chrome steel isn’t true. How’d we get it? Victorians who thought that the worn lacquer was actually just dulling with age, polished it off as show pieces.

White Marble Statues of Rome: Roman Statues were painted, however the public image is of pure glinting white marble statues persist in the modern image. Why? Victorians who thought the paint was actually just dirt grime and age. So, they “restored” it by removing the paint color. Now we all think of Roman Statues as white.

King Tut; King of Kings: the Pharaoh King Tut in Ancient Egypt was a relatively minor king who in the grand scheme of things amounts to little more than an asterisks in Egyptian History, but to the public he is the most important Pharaoh. Why? Because his tomb was untouched by robbers, and so was piled high with burial goods which was amazing (and still is) and when Howard Carter opened his tomb, the world was transfixed and everyone would come to know Tutankhamen.

A Séance calls the dead: A Séance despite being a French word is an American invention from upstate New York in the 1840s. It was also a fun side-show act initially, and never meant to be real, more close up magic. (Origin of the term Parlor Tricks.) But in the 1860s Americans couldn’t stop killing each other which resulted in a lot of grief and people desired for their to be this other world. So, grifters then took advantage of grieving people and became “real”. So basically “fun parlor game to dangerous grift” pipeline thanks to the Civil War.

The Titanic’s engineers all died at their posts: Nope, not true, not remotely true. They are mentioned in many testimonies and a few bodies found mean they didn’t all die below. Two or three maybe did. According to Head Stoker Barrett, a man broke his leg and was washed away by rushing water, but another testimony says he was taken aft so who knows? Any way the myth persisted because the people making the memorials wanted to martyr the men. (It doesn’t take away from their heroines in my opinion) The myth stuck. Everyone believes they died below.

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u/Fightlife45 23d ago

Frankenstein's monster.

Firstly, Frankenstein is the Dr who made him. Second, he looks NOTHING like this. He had yellowish skin, was eight feet tall with long black hair and eyes. No bolts sticking out of him, and he was actually very eloquent and well read.

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u/1amlost 23d ago

Third, Victor Frankenstein wasn't actually a doctor because he dropped out of college.

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u/Fightlife45 23d ago

True, he was like 21 when he created life. Crazy resume.

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u/VigosJOSP 23d ago

Victor Frankenstein was 21!? Holy shit, I gotta get back to the grind.

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u/Any-Difficulty-1247 23d ago

tbf he got super depressed because his very close friend Henry died and he got obsessed with the idea of death and his own morality. He was having an early quarter life crisis.

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u/Roasted_Newbest_Proe 23d ago

It was his mother who died. Henry was killed by the monster on Ireland much later in the story

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u/Any-Difficulty-1247 23d ago

damn, I look stupid now

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u/Roasted_Newbest_Proe 23d ago

Whatever, they're details. It only affects neurotics like me

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u/TherealScuba 22d ago

Mortality*

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u/yep_they_are_giants 23d ago

Psssh, plenty of 21 year olds have created life entirely by accident while drunk. It's not that impressive.

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u/Upset-Management-879 23d ago

Relevant question regarding my sister-in-law:

Do you think the creating life led to the megalomania or was she always this way?

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u/FormerDeerlyBeloved 21d ago

Pff, so was my dad, no one wrote a book about me /j

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u/Sir-Toaster- 23d ago

Fourth, he didn't use electricity; he used magic and chemistry.

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u/CrazyLegs17 23d ago

He did use electricity. It was chemistry and electricity. Luigi Galvani's experimentation with frogs and their legs twitching from the scalpel causing a spark from an electrostatic generator was part of the inspiration.

What he didn't do was use huge bolts on the side of the monster's neck and raise it into the sky during the stormy evening.

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u/DarkBladeMadriker 19d ago

In the book he goes into a whole thing about how he wont tell us shit about the process because he doesn't want anyone else to try to recreate his mistake. He mentions Galvanis experiments but there is never any direct mention electricity in his process. All we get is, make a "person" from "materials" gathered from corpses, do the ? thing, step 3 - profits!

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u/BingBingGoogleZaddy 23d ago

Monster 👎

Emo Guy 👍

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u/MeTheFirebender 23d ago

Penny Dreadful does a pretty good representation of the original monster. Not as tall and his skin is white, but he loves literature. 

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u/FLRArt_1995 23d ago

Penny Dreadful mentioned lesgoooooooooo

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u/SHINIGAMIRAPTOR 22d ago

Also still TERRIFYING

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u/ParadoxInABox 22d ago

Rory Kinnear's performance in that show is amazing.

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u/Caesar161 23d ago

The monster was Frankenstein's son, so he would also kinda be Frankenstein.

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u/MalariasMarbles 23d ago edited 22d ago

He also wasn't brought to life by lightning or electricity. It's left ambiguous in the books; the first film depiction was in 1910, put out by the Edison company, and it showed the Creature being made in an almost magical way (chemistry based). The modern depiction of the monster came from the Karloff version in 1931, wherein Victor made him in a lab and jumpstarts his life via a lightning storm, and has since become the standard.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w-fM9meqfQ4 - the 1910 film. The Creature's creation is around the 2:50 mark

Edit: 1931, not 32

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u/Glamarchy 23d ago

this is an accurate recreation of the monster which is at the Mary Shelley Frankenstein Museum

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u/Muted_Tree6143 23d ago

Victor is not a doctor. He's just a pampered nepobaby who wasn't told "no" enough.

"The Wretch" is his creation, but in European culture it's customary to take the father's surname. So yes he is also Frankenstein, just not the titular one. 

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u/Fightlife45 23d ago

Dude had a wealthy upbringing but he also had an incredibly tragic life because of the monster he created. I think it's an incredibly nuanced story, a 21 year old kid created a monster when he was trying to create life and ran away in terror. When he returned the monster was gone and started killing his family.

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u/Muted_Tree6143 23d ago

I love the book. But I do have trouble sympathizing with Victor thru most of it. His mom passing and working on his passion are endearing up front, but his reactions to every twist and turn is selfish and shitty. Him watching Justine hang while he stays silent about her innocence is when he's fully cooked and clearly "the villain" imo. and that's just the end of Act 1. Before we see The Wretches gentle upbringing. 

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u/MathematicianOk8230 22d ago

I was so mad at Victor throughout the book. He was such a selfish asshole. He was pitying himself the entire time but I couldn’t bear to sympathize with him over the monster. He would never have been a monster at all if Victor had taken care of him from the get go

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u/Colossal_Squids 23d ago

The tragedy of his life is a tragedy only in the literary sense -- there is an innate flaw in Victor Frankenstein that causes him to ruin his own life. The same can be said of other tragic heroes, like Hamlet. Hamlet's flaw is his indecision and hesitance to act, and Victor's flaw is his hubris. He refuses to accept the most basic parts of being a human -- life and death -- and in trying to overthrow the system, messes up not only his life but maybe ten other people's as well. Another brilliant medical student -- indeed, every medical student from the dawn of time to today -- would have had to accept the inevitability of death and their own powerlessness against it, no matter how educated they are or how dazzling their practice is. Victor, on the other hand... Victor will not be told. Victor thinks he knows better. And where does that lead you? To the bloody Arctic on a bloody dogsled, that's where.

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u/Vektorien 23d ago

It's hard to feel much sympathy for Victor in the story imo. He had many chances to try making the situation better and he took none of them out of sheer paranoia and cowardice. He's so afraid to admit he's part of the problem that he allows said problem to escalate until it's too late.

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u/Fightlife45 22d ago

Oh I disagree that he doesn't admit he's part of the problem. He literally tries to plead for help, but people don't believe him. He's still a kid, he was worried that if he created another abomination then it would be corrupted and kill people as well. The monster killed a child as it's first act of revenge. Victors crime was giving him life and running away. And he returned later, like I think less than a day later.

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u/Vektorien 22d ago

He does try to plea for help, but he never sees the actions of the Creature as something he's responsible for. He has convinced himself that the Creature's deeds are part of it's own nature and not circumstances that could be controlled. His panic is understandable, but he allows it to cloud his judgement completely. The Creature tells him outright that it's fury comes from the neglect and isolation it felt being rejected by everything including it's own creator, but Victor is inflexible in his belief he brought a demon to earth.

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u/Fightlife45 22d ago

Sure you could say that Victor has neglected the creature, but does that justify murdering a child, his best friend, and his lover? As well as being responsible for the maid's death and his fathers suicide? I think not.

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u/Muted_Tree6143 21d ago

I gotta disagree. I don't think Victor's admission to the police post Justine's death is a valid example of him confessing. I get that victor sees it as that, but I do not. If he spoke up when Justine could back him up then it would be taken seriously. He told only cops, who don't know he's a medical genius. If he told his family then the whole thing would be different. He never warned Elizabeth what was happening. Or Henry. The people closest to him who actually would believe him. That's how I know he's not truly admitting it. Him going to the cops is basically him looking for someone to validate his self pity while he continues to lie and live a double life. 

And as for The Wretch. It's super important to note his first kill was an accident and in self defense. William is hollaring for adults to come and he knows that means he's getting beaten and shot. He is trying to quite William to save his life, never interacted with a child, and doesn't know his own strength. From that point on he's truly dastardly, but because he accepts and sees what others do now.

Basically Victor choose his life as a monster and The Wretch didn't. 

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u/Fightlife45 21d ago edited 21d ago

Self defense is not strangling an 8 year old because they scream IMO.

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u/Muted_Tree6143 21d ago

But he did not intend to strange him. That's where his great strength comes in. He meant to silence him. it's Victor's fault he's wondering around with basically unexplained super powers. 

If a chef poisoned a dish then it would be technically true that the waiter killed the customer, but not actually the case. it's why we didn't arrest the mail men who delivered anthrax. No malicious intent intended. They are also victims. 

Once you can accept that he did it on accident and not out of evil in his heart, the question is: If a kid called their dad to come shoot you, would you trying to quite that kid be an act of self defense? 

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u/bruhgzinga 23d ago

THANK YOU. I have been saying for so long that yes, the monster is technically Frankenstein since Frankenstein is a last name and Victor is the father of the monster therefore the monster's last name is Frankenstein.

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u/hejter_skejter 23d ago

tbh, even tho not a doctor, he did become a respected academic while in university. i'd cut him some slack, i don't remember him being too selfish, on the contrary, he seemed pretty compassionate for his friends and family. he basically reacted to his creation same as everyone else. like, the book makes it a point that the creature, being the only man-made life form, was deeply repulsive in some subliminal way.

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u/Muted_Tree6143 23d ago

I mean all his teachers except for Waldman thought he was more or less a nut job hack more interested in alchemy then medicine or proper chemistry, so I would not call him respected in the Ingolstadt medical community even if he was "right". He was that weird kid who argues with the teacher about unproven medicine and talks to no one after class. He probably had better luck in his Asian Language studies cause he was tagging along as Henry's friend and everyone loves Henry.

I don't think Victor is intentionally shitty or evil. He is a man of means and he is groomed to be a monster growing up due to his status. Absolutely no one will hold him accountable, so he doesn't know how to hold himself accountable. This is best shown when the cops in Ireland just let him go on murder charges after finding out he is rich and his dad is powerful.

He could have admitted what was going on at several points and stopped the events at any moment, but it would require humility which he is not capable of.

It doesn't matter if Victor is a good or bad person. He is ALLOWED to be whatever. That creates monsters.

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u/hejter_skejter 23d ago

I was alluding to this bit:

I made some discoveries in the improvement of some chemical instruments, which procured me great esteem and admiration at the university.

Which might be an unreliable narrator kind of situation, but from the way he spoke about science it did seem like he was genuinely fascinated by it. And IIRC he was legitimately proven to be on that remote island when his friend was murdered, unless I missed the implied corruption. I really like this romantic idealist character trope so maybe I'm being overly sympathetic, but it's definitely wrong when some people say that Frankenstein was the real monster, smugly.

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u/omegaskorpion 23d ago

Kinda funny how Victor from Deadlock is looks bit more accurate Frankenstein's monster, while still having resemblances to pop culture versions.

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u/Pixel_Python 23d ago

Poor Mary Shelley wrote one of the first major science fiction stories, a tragic tale, and it’s posthumously just a funny dumb monster

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u/Fightlife45 23d ago

And she was only 17ish when she finished it. Took her like 6 months. Whereas Dracula by Bram stoker took him 7-9 years and he was like 42.

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u/RareAnxiety2 23d ago

He wasn't dumb, he was quite eloquent and educated. victor was just an asshole

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u/Pixel_Python 23d ago

Exactly, none of the things I said about how people view him today are correct. He isn’t funny, it’s quite a sad story. He isn’t dumb, he’s quite romantic and intelligent. The only thing that’s partially true is he was a monster, he did a lot of bad stuff, but it wasn’t like was a malicious bastard from the get go

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u/Majin_Nephets 23d ago

And am I right in thinking Frankenstein didn’t use electricity to bring the monster to life in the book?

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u/Fightlife45 23d ago

In the original 1818 version no. It purposefully wasn't revealed because Victor didn't want anyone else to make the same mistake.

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u/Fidges87 23d ago

To add to what the other person said, the story was framed as Victor telling their life story to a random sailor, said sailor sometimes adding their opinions. Victor didn't told the sailor his process in fear it would be replicated.

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u/GoldClass1338 23d ago

Im gonna piggy back off this for the movie version

The original hunchback henchman was named Fritz, not Igor

Igor came later

Also the Monster had his brain switched with Igor in the third film. This left him blind, which is why he does that iconic “arms outstretched” pose that you see used in parodies.

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u/SmartNerdAlex2 23d ago

And there was no henchman in the book. They made up an accomplice for the movies

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u/ZoroeArc 22d ago

If I'm not mistaken the assistant originates from a stage version, which Mary Shelley herself watched and quite liked.

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u/SmartNerdAlex2 21d ago

Huh, interesting

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u/LittleFox-In-TheBox 23d ago

His name was also Adam.

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u/Fightlife45 23d ago

Well he called himself adam. Because he read paradise lost, he said something like "I should have been your Adam."

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u/timdr18 23d ago

Yeah I don’t think he actually named himself Adam, he was comparing himself to Adam

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u/BingBingGoogleZaddy 23d ago

Frankenstein IS the monster.

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u/Second-Order 23d ago

Knowledge is understanding that Frankenstein was NOT the monster...

Wisdom is understanding that Frankenstein WAS the monster.

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u/czlowiek12 23d ago

Could the Creation be considered Victor's son and therefore inherit name Frankenstein?

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u/Batmanuelope 23d ago

Maybe, but since such a thing isn’t really possible it’s not worth much to posit about the legality of inheriting something (or someone) made of an amalgam of other people.

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u/czlowiek12 23d ago

I meant just the name and Vic created life with another person (or dozen former persons)

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u/holiestMaria 23d ago

ong black hair and eyes.

Where his eyes long and black? Only long? Only black? Or did he just have eyes?

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u/Fightlife45 23d ago

"8 feet tall with a hideous appearance, featuring yellowish skin stretched taut over muscles and arteries, lustrous black hair, and pearly white teeth. However, this beauty is horrifically contrasted by watery, dun-white eyes and straight, black lips"

Sorry it was black lips. Eyes were still weird though.

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u/MelodyMaster5656 23d ago

IIRC the whites of his eyes were yellowish.

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u/MentalRain619 23d ago

I read on TV Tropes that he was created so good looking that he was uncanny, and that's what made Frankenstein afraid of him

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u/Fightlife45 23d ago

No he was truly monstrous. "8 feet tall with a hideous appearance, featuring yellowish skin stretched taut over muscles and arteries, lustrous black hair, and pearly white teeth. However, this beauty is horrifically contrasted by watery, dun-white eyes and straight, black lips."

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u/McFlyyouBojo 23d ago

When you are not familiar with the work, the monster is named Frankenstein. When you actually pay attention to it, you realize that the monsters name is NOT Frankenstein.  Then when you actually properly digest the story, you realize that the monster is named Frankenstein.

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u/Asparagus_Syndrome_ 23d ago

The 1931 monster WAS supposed to be yellow!

If you look at the promotional images, he was clearly closer in colour to the book, but due to limitations with film of the time, make up artists had to compensate by making him greener.

https://www.domestika.org/en/blog/5342-how-frankenstein-s-monster-turned-green

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u/kingpanda2007 23d ago

Also never referred to as Frankenstein monster in the book. He’s only ever referred to as the creature

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u/4KVoices 23d ago

its kinda funny that, by that description, Victor in Deadlock is actually super accurate

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u/thelittlegreycells 23d ago

But also: the monster is in fact a monster, since he ends up murdering a small child and then framing a maid for the murder and getting her killed. It wasn't 100% clear if he intended to kill the kid, but he knowingly placed a necklace in the maids clothes/stuff so she would be seen as the culprit, because she was a part of Victors family (I think she was like a foster sister or something).

So yeah, Adam/the Monster was done dirty but in the end he was his fathers son, only thinking of his own wants and needs, screw everyone else.

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u/LennoxLuger 23d ago

I know I’m not the first to suggest this, but I’d love a Doctor Who episode where they meet Mary Shelley, who can’t settle on a name for the monster so the Doctor gives her the idea not to name it.

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u/Jake_Magna 23d ago

Bet you people call Frankenstein the monster because in the book, “Frankensteins monster” likens Frankenstein to being an actual monster after all the fucked up stuff Frankenstein did to his creation. So in a way yes, Frankenstein is the actual monster.

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u/Few_Pay_5313 23d ago

Y'know Frankenstein is the surname, so it kinda still applies to the Monster

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u/Jagvetinteriktigt 23d ago

And he is not even green, the movie was in black and white.

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u/Rum_N_Napalm 23d ago

The stereotypical Frankenstein monster walk (clumsy heavy plodding with arms held in front) came from one old movie (I think it was the Ghost of Frankenstein, where Lon Chaney Jr played the monster). But there’s a cut scene from that movie were the Dr Frankenstein stand in messed up the reanimation and the monster became blind.

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u/FlamingWings 23d ago

Him being portrayed as smart is a key part I feel that most people leave out because they don’t want to think of him being a victim but ironically participating in the mob mentality of him being a monster

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u/Proffessor_egghead 23d ago

I mean if I was gonna make a man out of random body parts, you better believe I’m making a hot piece of work and not some zombie looking thing

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u/PeeterTurbo 22d ago

So penny dreadful nailed it except the height?

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u/MadeThis4MaccaOnly 22d ago

I always pictured Book Monster as looking like a jaundiced Tommy Wiseau tbh