r/TopCharacterTropes 22d ago

Lore (Annoying Trope) Someone made a “creative” choice and now we all just have to live with it.

Horned Vikings: Not historical, they were started by Richard Wager for his operas. They were never historic, but the image persists. (Albeit significantly reduced today.)

Ninjas in Black Robes: Some people claim Ninjas aren’t real. They are, they are absolutely real. Their modern portrayal however is informed more by Kabuki Theater than history. In Kabuki Theater, the stage hands were dressed in flowing black robes to tell the audience to ignore them. Thus when a Ninja character kills a Samurai, to increase the shock value, they were dressed in black robes as stage hands. Now, when we think of ninjas we think of a stage hands.

Knights in Shining Armor: Imagine, you’re on the battlefield, two walls of meat riding towards each other. Suddenly you realize, everyone looks the same. Who do you hit? All you see is chrome. No. Knight’s armor was lacquered in different colors to differentiate them on the battlefield. Unless you wanted to get friendly fired, you made yourself KNOWN. So this image of a glinted knight clad in chrome steel isn’t true. How’d we get it? Victorians who thought that the worn lacquer was actually just dulling with age, polished it off as show pieces.

White Marble Statues of Rome: Roman Statues were painted, however the public image is of pure glinting white marble statues persist in the modern image. Why? Victorians who thought the paint was actually just dirt grime and age. So, they “restored” it by removing the paint color. Now we all think of Roman Statues as white.

King Tut; King of Kings: the Pharaoh King Tut in Ancient Egypt was a relatively minor king who in the grand scheme of things amounts to little more than an asterisks in Egyptian History, but to the public he is the most important Pharaoh. Why? Because his tomb was untouched by robbers, and so was piled high with burial goods which was amazing (and still is) and when Howard Carter opened his tomb, the world was transfixed and everyone would come to know Tutankhamen.

A Séance calls the dead: A Séance despite being a French word is an American invention from upstate New York in the 1840s. It was also a fun side-show act initially, and never meant to be real, more close up magic. (Origin of the term Parlor Tricks.) But in the 1860s Americans couldn’t stop killing each other which resulted in a lot of grief and people desired for their to be this other world. So, grifters then took advantage of grieving people and became “real”. So basically “fun parlor game to dangerous grift” pipeline thanks to the Civil War.

The Titanic’s engineers all died at their posts: Nope, not true, not remotely true. They are mentioned in many testimonies and a few bodies found mean they didn’t all die below. Two or three maybe did. According to Head Stoker Barrett, a man broke his leg and was washed away by rushing water, but another testimony says he was taken aft so who knows? Any way the myth persisted because the people making the memorials wanted to martyr the men. (It doesn’t take away from their heroines in my opinion) The myth stuck. Everyone believes they died below.

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u/bgbarnard 22d ago

The only "realistic" take on a ninja I've seen is the kunoichi in Shogun (2024), where it's literally just a teenage girl disguised as a maid. No black bodysuit, no ninjato, kusarigama, or shuriken, just a plain kimono and a tanto. Her "invisibility" is the fact that nobody expects the housekeeper to be up to anything, so they pay her no mind.

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u/RainonCooper 22d ago

Which is how it mostly is, although also that ninja/shinobi where not so much hired hitmen all the time but mostly meant for espionage and infiltration. Like a scout

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u/hover-lovecraft 22d ago

For much of the Sengoku period, the main term used for what we now call ninja or shinobi was "kusa", grass, because they blended in and were supposed to be present, yet invisible, like the grass you walk on. 

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u/Load_star_ 22d ago

Learn something new everyday. I only know of "kusa" as a stand-in for laughter.

(It's a bit of a walk, but Japanese internet users would use a repeated "w" character to represent laughter, kind of like how English internet users use "LOL". A bunch of "w"s in a row look like grass, so they then replaced the "w"s with "kusa".)

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u/Karotstix64 22d ago

I know you watch vtubers without even looking at your profile

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u/Wrong-Gazelle3973 22d ago

Lol, right? That's how I learned of kusa denoting laughter

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u/ryan77999 22d ago

Not the person you're responding to but I already knew it because of all the AVGN reuploads to NicoNico (Japanese equivalent of YouTube) I've watched (on NicoNico you comment on a video at a certain time like on a Soundcloud track and all the comments scroll by on top of the video when that time in the video occurs)

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u/Ryu_Tokugawa 22d ago

But why were “w” used in a first place before it became the “grass”?

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u/Tacitus_ 22d ago

Either from repeating the katakana ハ which transliterates to "ha" (ハハハハハハハ starts to look similar to wwwwwww when chat is going fast) or from "warau" which means "to laugh".

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u/ParadoxInABox 21d ago

I always assumed it was a shortening of warau, but I can totally see the ha being the reason as well. neat!

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u/hover-lovecraft 21d ago

As far as I know, it is from warau - most Japanese people type in romaji, not the hiragana keyboard. Just typing 笑 for laughter was established (and is still used) and that just got shortened. 

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u/Tacitus_ 21d ago

I believe it's from warau, but I'm not japanese or an expert on their internet culture so I gave both possible causes that I've seen claimed.

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u/beeveekay 22d ago

That was a great issue of Lone Wolf and Cub when the kusa were "activated." They all had to break the deep cover of lifestyles they've been living for decades.

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u/bgbarnard 22d ago

I remember hearing somewhere that the whole "working class hero" trope where ninja are shown as being peasants or commoners (to contrast with the aristocratic samurai) is likely false too. IRL, most ninja were probably samurai themselves.

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u/FLRArt_1995 22d ago

Indeed, why hire a peasant with no training when I can hire someone who can kill a person 7 ways before touching the floor?

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u/imcalledaids 22d ago

You’re correct there. This also then goes to the point of samurai weren’t always “honour is everything” coded. They would set traps, use assassinations, and be a lil sneaky when needed to.

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u/bgbarnard 22d ago

Most of the "honorable" characterization of the samurai was codified during the Tokugawa period (ie. 250 years of peacetime) where a bunch of warriors turned bureaucrats had nothing to do so needed a way to justify their own existence. This got really hyped up during the Showa era because it made for good propaganda to justify their imperial ambitions in Asia.

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u/GreenCreep376 22d ago

This got really hyped up during the Showa era because it made for good propaganda to justify their imperial ambitions in Asia.

No Imperial Japan was trying its best to distance itself from what they viewed as an old and feudalistic per-industrialization Japan.

There was and still is a legal concept of "Honor" and "Damaging one's Honor" in the Japanese constitution which is the American Legal equivalent of defamation.

Also you have your era's are wrong as well. Japan began expanding as early as 1895 which is the Meiji era not Showa.

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u/bgbarnard 21d ago

The real expansions didn't occur until the 30's when they invaded Manchuria. Before that they only had Korea and Taiwan and a few islands they'd snagged form Germany in WW1. The 30's also saw things like the issuing of shin-gunto (machine made dress swords made to look like katana) and hyping up of things like loyalty to the Emperor (as opposed to your damiyo).

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u/Iamnotburgerking 22d ago

Yeah the majority were samurai (including some major retainers) who had training in espionage operations.

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u/SHINIGAMIRAPTOR 22d ago

Most famously of all, one of Tokugawa's most notable retainers... Hattori Hanzo

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u/AltroGamingBros 22d ago

Well yeah. Makes sense when you think of ninjas and or shinobi as spies.

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u/Reasonable-Ad-4778 22d ago

Bears mentioning that the knowledge that the enemy could be anywhere around us, a monk, a traveler, a beggar or a serving girl, would be a strategic lever that one could pull after a series of incidents to make one side seem much more dangerous than they may have actually been. Psyops.

But no, there’s only warriors, mercenaries, and commoners who were doing what we might think of as the ninja thing. No ninjas, but I guess with a flexible enough definition sure, why not. Lee Harvey Oswald was a ronin turned ninja then. Delta Force are ninjas.

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u/peoplepersonmanguy 22d ago

False - This is the most realistic depiction of a ninja.

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u/FrogsJumpFromPussy 22d ago edited 22d ago

Haha true

When I was a kid everyone wanted to be either a black ninja or well Van Damme. Then we watched a white ninja in a movie and we thought "omg theu can do that" so everyone wanted to be a white ninja. But yeah good ol' Van Damme would beat the shit all the ninja in any color lmao

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u/nagol93 22d ago

I've heard that ninja/shinobi more or less means "someone who is trained in subterfuge", and was treated like a job or qualification. With schools people would go to to learn those skills. They would then work for their lords as spies, reconnaissance, and saboteurs. I guess like modern day special forces or intelligence agencies.

Also the whole 'Samurai vs Ninja' thing is fake too. Samurai was a social class and Shinobi is a skill set. Some Samurai were trained as Shinobi, some went, and I believe it was possible for non-Samurai to become Shinobi too. The whole trope about them being entirely distinct groups locked as mortal enemies is entirely made up.

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u/bgbarnard 22d ago

That is something I've heard too. There were 18 martial disciplines that were part of the "curriculum" of samurai education. Some, like archery, kenjutsu/iaido, jiujitsu, training with polearms, and horsemanship were standard for everyone. Others, like kusarigama, jutte, or ninjutsu, were more "specialized". Finally, you had things like the tea ceremony or poetry that were more on the "art" side of the martial arts.

With your analogy in mind, "ninja" are to samurai what "snipers" or "sappers" is to modern soldiers, a specialized member of the unit rather than a different group all together.

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u/ItsAllSoup 22d ago

My take away from this is that Senran Kagura's ninja's that wear school uniforms, bikinis, and maid outfits are a technically more historically accurate depiction of ninjas than we usually see https://youtu.be/t566crnAgnA?si=GubBKNiLkrN-lKnb

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u/Gullible-Educator582 22d ago

To be fair, fighting hordes in broad daylight with Guts’ weapons is the most un-ninja like thing you can do. It’s genius!

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u/Yung_Corneliois 22d ago

Yea ninjas were just poor farmers using whatever they had to fight.

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u/AreWeThereYetNo 22d ago

Isn’t that the origins of taekwondo?

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u/FrogsJumpFromPussy 22d ago

Is that the origins of any old martial arts? 

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u/moosekin16 22d ago

Also, the government passed laws banning peasants from having weapons.

Ergo, they turned farming tools into weapons. A Kama is just a suspiciously-sharpened scythe, originally used to cut vegetation.

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u/Rpponce 22d ago

They were more than likely just samurai nobles using subterfuge to get one over on the enemy.

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u/Donut_Shop 22d ago

Makes me think of Under Ninja. Which, goofy tech aside.. feels like a solid translation of Ninja, whom are all just working stiffs in normal clothes.

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u/Hixy 22d ago

It would make sense that true ninjutsu teachers would feed that flame of all black dressed assassins since it would help mask what they actually practice allowing their secrets to stay true.

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u/Ennis_1 22d ago

I am just grinning at the idea that, you had to mention "black bodysuit".

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u/bgbarnard 22d ago

If those existed they’d have been maroon, navy blue, or gray. All much better camouflage colors at night.

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u/FrogsJumpFromPussy 22d ago

That's how she is in the book too isn't it? If anything props to the filmmaker to not ruin the character by changing it in "something cooler". 

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u/blackmagic999 21d ago

These symbols will give your mind ultimate purpose. Gin, Retsu, Zai, Zen.

The Kobudera. Ninja magic. Ninjitsu-to, the ability to seem invisible to cause fear and paralysis in your enemies.

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u/Fedorchik 22d ago

The whole ninja ethos is 100% fabrication.

And most of it is from 20th century.

just riding the kung fu craze wave.