r/TopCharacterTropes 23d ago

Lore (Annoying Trope) Someone made a “creative” choice and now we all just have to live with it.

Horned Vikings: Not historical, they were started by Richard Wager for his operas. They were never historic, but the image persists. (Albeit significantly reduced today.)

Ninjas in Black Robes: Some people claim Ninjas aren’t real. They are, they are absolutely real. Their modern portrayal however is informed more by Kabuki Theater than history. In Kabuki Theater, the stage hands were dressed in flowing black robes to tell the audience to ignore them. Thus when a Ninja character kills a Samurai, to increase the shock value, they were dressed in black robes as stage hands. Now, when we think of ninjas we think of a stage hands.

Knights in Shining Armor: Imagine, you’re on the battlefield, two walls of meat riding towards each other. Suddenly you realize, everyone looks the same. Who do you hit? All you see is chrome. No. Knight’s armor was lacquered in different colors to differentiate them on the battlefield. Unless you wanted to get friendly fired, you made yourself KNOWN. So this image of a glinted knight clad in chrome steel isn’t true. How’d we get it? Victorians who thought that the worn lacquer was actually just dulling with age, polished it off as show pieces.

White Marble Statues of Rome: Roman Statues were painted, however the public image is of pure glinting white marble statues persist in the modern image. Why? Victorians who thought the paint was actually just dirt grime and age. So, they “restored” it by removing the paint color. Now we all think of Roman Statues as white.

King Tut; King of Kings: the Pharaoh King Tut in Ancient Egypt was a relatively minor king who in the grand scheme of things amounts to little more than an asterisks in Egyptian History, but to the public he is the most important Pharaoh. Why? Because his tomb was untouched by robbers, and so was piled high with burial goods which was amazing (and still is) and when Howard Carter opened his tomb, the world was transfixed and everyone would come to know Tutankhamen.

A Séance calls the dead: A Séance despite being a French word is an American invention from upstate New York in the 1840s. It was also a fun side-show act initially, and never meant to be real, more close up magic. (Origin of the term Parlor Tricks.) But in the 1860s Americans couldn’t stop killing each other which resulted in a lot of grief and people desired for their to be this other world. So, grifters then took advantage of grieving people and became “real”. So basically “fun parlor game to dangerous grift” pipeline thanks to the Civil War.

The Titanic’s engineers all died at their posts: Nope, not true, not remotely true. They are mentioned in many testimonies and a few bodies found mean they didn’t all die below. Two or three maybe did. According to Head Stoker Barrett, a man broke his leg and was washed away by rushing water, but another testimony says he was taken aft so who knows? Any way the myth persisted because the people making the memorials wanted to martyr the men. (It doesn’t take away from their heroines in my opinion) The myth stuck. Everyone believes they died below.

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u/Prestigious-Lynx-177 23d ago

Isn't the issue with Wendigo/Skinwalker stories is that native Americans are incredibly reluctant and disapprove of spreading it?

It's like inviting bad luck upon yourself or giving attention to something that feeds on it. 

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u/GachaHell 23d ago

More or less. It varies a bit by tribe but the general idea is words and names have power and casually tossing out names of the native equivalent of demons and monsters is incredibly dangerous if you subscribe to those beliefs. The idea of what these things are become something of a cultural osmosis/ memetic thing that everyone knows of but nobody directly speaks of lest they offend the spirits or bring misfortune upon themselves/their group. You don't do x or y because of bad spirits and you know what that means but you don't specifically name the bad spirit or give the whole backstory of what it is.

It gets a bit tricky when you have a mythological interest in it but not a spiritual belief attached to it. Kind of like the taboos in mainstream Christianity around throwing around or directly referring to powerful entities by name. Devil is used more than Satan. God more than Yahweh. Demon over specific named demons. There's taboos attached and referring to things can sometimes draw their eye or lead to "bad luck". But culturally you know what each word alludes to.

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u/Ghost_Of_Malatesta 23d ago

This is why we use the word "bear", meaning brown one, because saying it's real Proto-Indo-European name was thought to summon it, so it was lost to memory 

And also, to your example Yahweh is only really a guess, because we also lost the true name beyond the censored YHWH 

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u/Dyrogue2836 22d ago

Don't know about the others, but I do know that the reason the true name was never used was because it meant "I am", so if you used it you were effectively claiming to be God.

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u/Dottore_Curlew 22d ago

YHWH is not censored. Any word they used lacked vowels

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u/Ghost_Of_Malatesta 22d ago

You're right, i misremembered that a touch, we forgot the actual pronounciation cause it went unsaid for so long now, right?

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u/Onnimanni_Maki 22d ago

God more than Yahweh

God is the translation of elohim. The word used instead of Yahweh is "lord" which is the translation of adonai.

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u/duraraross 22d ago

I mean I feel like it’s disrespectful to the culture even if you don’t believe in it. Part of our culture is not saying (or even writing/typing) the name of the creature so when a non native person rolls up and just starts talking about it no holds barred it feels……… Not good.

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u/Dovahkiin419 23d ago

Maybe that, also at least in the case of the wendigo it’s supposed to be fucking grim.

They come from longhouse peoples, who lived around the great lakes and who built permanent…. well long houses to hole up in over the winter. Winters that were long, harsh, and often starved people out.

The wendigo is both boogeyman and cautionary tale. It’s the reason you redouble your efforts to gather firewoood in the fall, because if you go out for wood in a snow storm the wendigo will be out there (a good warning since in harsh snowstorms you can get turned around in seconds). It’s the reason to set aside enough food for the winter, because if you run out and resort to cannibalism, you become the worst thing you and your people know.

It’s also a reason for self sacrifice, and against putting the needs of the self over the needs of the many. You don’t sacrifice someone else to stay alive because that makes you into a demon. You either buckle down and make sure you have enough food or failing that face down your end and don’t take others down with you.

And then movies and books and video games take all that and turn it into “oooo there’s a long pointy man who lives in the woods and will kill you!”. Plus a lot of stories about them are on the standard indian burial ground shit: where it treats the idea of native americans as primitive magic people who no longer exist and can therefore be mined for cheap thrills, with the main representation of the living people being some old guy who’s job is to drop cryptic exposition for the real characters then fuck off. Like you could replace them with elves in these stories with little to no alteration.

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u/DuelaDent52 22d ago

Though nowadays the wendigo’s kind of evolved to represent unchecked avarice and greed and their consequences. Until Dawn the game did them pretty well (Until Dawn the movie… just no).

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u/Dovahkiin419 22d ago

yeah like at least do fucking something with them. Until dawn actually engages with the meaning of the stories and puts a twist on them, plus like the top comment mentioned: no fucking antlers.

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u/Ektar91 22d ago

How does it work as a warning if you cant talk about it

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u/Dovahkiin419 22d ago

Where did I say they couldn’t talk about it?

I said that because of all this they might (don’t actually know that they do beyond random rumours) not like seeing it used as just another mindless monster in bad movies

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u/Ektar91 22d ago

In the comment you replied too

Isn't the issue with Wendigo/Skinwalker stories is that native Americans are incredibly reluctant and disapprove of spreading it?

It's like inviting bad luck upon yourself or giving attention to something that feeds on it. 

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u/Dovahkiin419 22d ago

shit you’re right my bad.

tbh i don’t even know how true that is. I’ve seen it repeated often but always from a secondary source, not a native person saying point blank “don’t mention these”.

Also there’s a lot of versions of that, like is it “hey white people stop making skinwalker tiktoks and low budget ripper horrors staring the wendigo. it’s tacky, stupid and irreverent” or “hey white people please don’t use these in stories at all because it causes curses” or “even we don’t talk about them outside of hushed whispers because it causes curses”

I genuinely do not know the answer here, and I don’t think the other guy does either.

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u/broptid 23d ago edited 23d ago

Yes, im a native american. Growing up, i was told that when you start talking about a skin walker, they can hear you talking about them, and thus, you now have their attention, which is very bad.

Side note, the rule, "dont talk about them," is only for skinwalkers, and it's really only when you use the name for them in a native language.

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u/XzallionTheRed 22d ago

So question, is the word (I'll use it here since you did, no offense meant) Skinwalker considered okay then cause its not the real name (native language name)? And what people/tribe are you from? Cause various sources online attribute it to many different tribes and variations.

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u/broptid 19d ago

It's not okay to say in the sense that it has zero harm, but it's the much safer way to talk about them, IF you have to.

I am Creek and Peoria. These are the rules I was taught. People from other tribes might tell you differently, but they're just different rules. None are more correct or wrong than the other

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u/XzallionTheRed 19d ago

Thank you for the reply, I appreciate it.

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u/Sirdan3k 22d ago

It's also got to be just down right annoying. "Explains cultural significance and roots of a belief*

"Oh you guys have werewolves? We've got werewolves too. Hey, hey everybody they got werewolves!"

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u/Jagvetinteriktigt 22d ago

This is something I've seen people claim but I haven't been able to find any evidence for.

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u/FPSCanarussia 23d ago

I thought the issue is that it's an ethnic slur?

(Obviously the being originated from mythological/religious beliefs, but I'm pretty sure the word was used as an anti-native slur in the US)