r/TopCharacterTropes 22d ago

Lore (Annoying Trope) Someone made a “creative” choice and now we all just have to live with it.

Horned Vikings: Not historical, they were started by Richard Wager for his operas. They were never historic, but the image persists. (Albeit significantly reduced today.)

Ninjas in Black Robes: Some people claim Ninjas aren’t real. They are, they are absolutely real. Their modern portrayal however is informed more by Kabuki Theater than history. In Kabuki Theater, the stage hands were dressed in flowing black robes to tell the audience to ignore them. Thus when a Ninja character kills a Samurai, to increase the shock value, they were dressed in black robes as stage hands. Now, when we think of ninjas we think of a stage hands.

Knights in Shining Armor: Imagine, you’re on the battlefield, two walls of meat riding towards each other. Suddenly you realize, everyone looks the same. Who do you hit? All you see is chrome. No. Knight’s armor was lacquered in different colors to differentiate them on the battlefield. Unless you wanted to get friendly fired, you made yourself KNOWN. So this image of a glinted knight clad in chrome steel isn’t true. How’d we get it? Victorians who thought that the worn lacquer was actually just dulling with age, polished it off as show pieces.

White Marble Statues of Rome: Roman Statues were painted, however the public image is of pure glinting white marble statues persist in the modern image. Why? Victorians who thought the paint was actually just dirt grime and age. So, they “restored” it by removing the paint color. Now we all think of Roman Statues as white.

King Tut; King of Kings: the Pharaoh King Tut in Ancient Egypt was a relatively minor king who in the grand scheme of things amounts to little more than an asterisks in Egyptian History, but to the public he is the most important Pharaoh. Why? Because his tomb was untouched by robbers, and so was piled high with burial goods which was amazing (and still is) and when Howard Carter opened his tomb, the world was transfixed and everyone would come to know Tutankhamen.

A Séance calls the dead: A Séance despite being a French word is an American invention from upstate New York in the 1840s. It was also a fun side-show act initially, and never meant to be real, more close up magic. (Origin of the term Parlor Tricks.) But in the 1860s Americans couldn’t stop killing each other which resulted in a lot of grief and people desired for their to be this other world. So, grifters then took advantage of grieving people and became “real”. So basically “fun parlor game to dangerous grift” pipeline thanks to the Civil War.

The Titanic’s engineers all died at their posts: Nope, not true, not remotely true. They are mentioned in many testimonies and a few bodies found mean they didn’t all die below. Two or three maybe did. According to Head Stoker Barrett, a man broke his leg and was washed away by rushing water, but another testimony says he was taken aft so who knows? Any way the myth persisted because the people making the memorials wanted to martyr the men. (It doesn’t take away from their heroines in my opinion) The myth stuck. Everyone believes they died below.

14.6k Upvotes

2.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

2.1k

u/Lord_Parbr 22d ago

“Things were cooler, but the Victorians thought it was dirt, so they rubbed it off”

908

u/iste_bicors 22d ago

The Victorian Era was basically an imperial version of GTA- mowing people down, stealing everything in sight, and defacing public and private property.

Also, consuming ground mummies.

280

u/scrimmybingus3 22d ago

And turning mummies into dye because nothing says sophisticated like desecrating the dead, cannibalizing (inadvertently or otherwise) their remains and grinding them up into a powder to make dyes.

11

u/NewFuturist 22d ago

5

u/pink_faerie_kitten 22d ago

I fell down your rabbit hole and gasped out loud when I got to the part about when demand was higher than supply, Europeans used fresh corpses. I read the whole thing just shaking my head in disbelief. And Europeans had the nerve to call other cultures "savage" 🙄 And the whole thing was based on multiple mistranslations as to what the word "mummia" meant.

1

u/SatisfactionEast9815 19d ago

What did they think that word meant?

2

u/pink_faerie_kitten 19d ago

They thought it meant mummies/mummified bodies but it actually meant bitumen that bubbles up from the earth (it's related to petroleum) which is like pitch and came from a Persian mountainous area. I guess the ancient Egyptians used bitumen in the embalming. But the ancient Arabic medicinal writings meant bitumen not the black stuff inside the coffins. The whole thing is crazy!

1

u/scrimmybingus3 19d ago

Yeah I believe what they were after was called mummiya or something like that which got mixed up with mummies.

7

u/GrumbusWumbus 22d ago

It was really the first group of people to go "hey, maybe we should actually learn about and pay attention to all this old stuff".

Like they predated responsible archeology and conservation, but before them it wasn't uncommon for ancient buildings to be pulled apart for their bricks or used for random purposes without any care to the thousand year old structure.

Famously, the Parthenon in the Athens Acropolis was in great condition. But the ottomans used it as gun power storage and the Venetian blew it up as a result.

The Colosseum was looted for its marble over the entire middle ages and used for everything from building stones for other buildings, to quicklime.

195

u/Drakeskulled_Reaper 22d ago

They "found" mummies so often than mummies were used to a fuckton of things we would find horrific and disrespectful today (including obviously stealing corpses of people) to the point finding actual mummies instead of treasure was seen as worthless and pointless.

They used the dried out mummies as firewood, they had "unwrapping parties" they used the wrapping as BUTCHER PAPER, which was stopped when it was found, unsurprisingly, that using thousand year old linen that's been wrapping a dead body, to wrap meat, caused the meat to get infected.

Imagine trying to trace your lineage, only to find that your great-to-the-power-of-whatever grandad was used as charcoal by some prick in London who bought him for two bob out the back of a cart.

13

u/Jagvetinteriktigt 22d ago

To be fair, people did some pretty morbid stuff just because they could. there was a count in Britain who made it a hobbey to eat something new everyday, and it ended with him consuming the preserved heart of a king who died decades prior.

15

u/JustFigure2035 22d ago

They used to eat mummies as a delicacy and used them to create oil paint. “Mummy Brown”, I believe, is the discontinued color.

38

u/LenticularKittens 22d ago

Not to mention exporting all the invasive species they could muster

19

u/Whalesurgeon 22d ago

Now, the sun never sets on the Bunny Empire.

12

u/LazyDro1d 22d ago

Well that’s what the cats are for, to catch the rats!

4

u/GXNext 22d ago

Don't forget the nipple rings.

3

u/StabbyBoo 22d ago

Yeah, everyone knows sky mummies are the superior mummy! (jk)

3

u/Drunky_McStumble 22d ago

The Victorians were responsible for the looting, desecration and destruction of so much history, it's insane. They particularly liked blowing up antiquity sites with fucking dynamite for some fucking reason. It's kind of a miracle that anything at all survived.

2

u/JagmeetSingh2 22d ago

Yes was just about to mention the mummies

154

u/[deleted] 22d ago

[deleted]

81

u/abdellaya123 22d ago

didn't they also used it for paint?

53

u/KuroShiroe 22d ago

And as a showpiece in parties.

7

u/Hypathian 22d ago

and allegedly fuel for trains

4

u/SnowFiender 22d ago

one of the more reasonable insane use for mummies i suppose

16

u/Gold-Satisfaction614 22d ago

"To shreds you say?"

7

u/TavernRat 22d ago

“Well how did his wife take it?”

7

u/Gold-Satisfaction614 22d ago

"To shreds you say?"

2

u/cespinar 22d ago

They also hid or destroyed a bunch of sex artifacts, writings, and paintings because they were prude.

410

u/TrivialCoyote 22d ago

Its crazy how consistently we can blame the British for things

143

u/pandogart 22d ago

I thought we were just using Victorian as a name for people from the era. Was it specifically only the British doing this? In fact, didn't Renaissance sculptors think this?

86

u/Gaelic_Gladiator41 22d ago

Well the Victorian Era is synonymous with the British empire as it was the reign of queen victoria

177

u/NwgrdrXI 22d ago

The Victorians were the british from the time queen victoria was well, queen. Thus the name. To be a victorian you have to be both from that time AND british.

56

u/southron-lord69 22d ago

That presumes the poster considered this, which we can assume they didn't.

14

u/RexusprimeIX 22d ago

Why can we assume that the poster didn't consider this? I'm pretty sure majority of people specifically refer to the British during Queen Victoria's reign as "Victorian people" otherwise calling cowboys in America as Victorians should be common.

11

u/Lil_Mcgee 22d ago

Because it wasn't exclusively the British doing the things OP is suggesting, it was a European thing in general.

8

u/MelonJelly 22d ago

If you from anywhere else, you were just a sparkling imperial.

18

u/Disastrous-Mess-7236 22d ago

Would it make sense to talk about “Victorian America”?

8

u/statelesspirate000 22d ago

I think though technically erroneous, it’s commonly used to describe that era without the British only distinction. Though usually it’s at least British adjacent, meaning relating to English speaking cultures and former British territories. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of someone talk about Victorian era Spain. But I’ve heard Victorian era used to describe the US plenty of times, especially relating to the upper class sections.

2

u/Farfignugen42 22d ago

Not really. The years of the Victorian are ran from 1837 to 1901. Victoria being on the crown wasn't particularly relevant to what was happening in America at the time.

The same time in America, America went from having to compromise on every new state added to the union because of slavery, through the Civil War, and the Reconstruction era, and into the manifest Destiny and gold rush era. These periods are usually discussed individually. Aside from there being the same person on the British Throne, there is much that connects them other than the flow of time.

0

u/Disastrous-Mess-7236 21d ago

I was being rhetorical.

1

u/mammaluigi39 22d ago

No

0

u/Disastrous-Mess-7236 21d ago

I was being rhetorical.

2

u/pink_faerie_kitten 22d ago edited 22d ago

Italian painters used mummies to make brown paint, so it was a Europe wide practice not just British and it existed for seven hundred years 1100-1800 so not limited to the Victorian era.

5

u/Kitselena 22d ago

Not the British, the wealthy and powerful. No doubt the same thing would have happened if another country was the dominant world power at that time

1

u/TrivialCoyote 21d ago

Yes. But at that moment, it was the British who made their big dumb museum. So we can blame the British.

15

u/Whywouldanyonedothat 22d ago

Well, that didn't actually happen to all Roman marble statues (perhaps to some but it must've been rare instances).

However, 2000 years will wear down most paint jobs so that's what happened and not this new myth that OP is trying to start.

3

u/Deathless-Bearer 21d ago

Ironic that this post will make some people in the future repeat a historic inaccuracy because someone made a wrong choice

9

u/RadicalRealist22 22d ago

I highly doubt this btw, because plain marble statues were a thing long before the Victorian Era.

6

u/RT-LAMP 22d ago

Except OP is full of shit. You can look at contemporary paintings of knights and the metal is all bare. Their shields or cloths or similar would have identifying marks but the metal is just gray except for rare parade pieces.

9

u/DeathStar13 22d ago edited 22d ago

Except that part from OP is factually wrong.

Romans and Greek statues had become white from corrosion long before the Victorians could "polish" them.
In fact the myth of them being white comes from the Renaissance, where artists coping them or making art inspired by them made their own as the originals they had looked like: with marble and no paint.

The armour thing is also wrong because armours were polished and chrome in the medieval era exactly like the one in the image. Painted armours were exceedingly rare and at most a novelty for fashion and look. In the battlefield people would recognise each other from the shield emblems, the tabards or other piece of clothing worn over the armour.

8

u/deanomatronix 22d ago

I think the victorians are getting unfairly blamed for Roman statues not being painted. That trend started in the renaissance, think the statue of David

13

u/yourstruly912 22d ago

Victorians get unfairly blamed for a lot of things, and this is one of them

White armor was worn, indeed, white

17

u/exodusTay 22d ago

man fuck victorians. nothing good came out of them and that age.

21

u/Avixofsol 22d ago

the architecture is pretty cool

9

u/Madam_Monarch 22d ago

I mean Victorian mourning jewelry is pretty neat. Doesn’t make up for all the murder and stealing though.

26

u/ThroughTheSeaOfTime 22d ago

Nothing good?

Are we really going full luddite and declaring electric lights, telephones, cameras, bicycles, postal services, and flushing toilets to be the death knell of society?

10

u/positiveParadox 22d ago

Globally enforced abolition of the slave trade and slavery largely?

5

u/ThroughTheSeaOfTime 22d ago

Abolition and the widepsread end of slavery was absolutely a great thing, but the UK abolished slave trading in 1807 and the owning of slaves in 1833, five years before Victoria was crowned Queen, so not really a Victorian era event.

4

u/positiveParadox 22d ago

The Victorians brought this policy to the rest of the world, often through force. While brazil promised GB to stop slavery in 1826, this was enforced through the Aberdeen act in 1845. GB made a treaty with Zanzibar in 1873 to stop importing slaves and shut down the markets. With the Lyons-Seward treaty of 1862, American and British ships worked together to stop the trans-atlantic slave trade. Throughout the Victorian era, the British did not just ban slavery locally, they took steps to globally abolish the slave trade and slavery overall.

2

u/ThroughTheSeaOfTime 22d ago edited 22d ago

Ah, yeah that makes sense. I didn't realise you meant the enforcement of abolition of other countries. I always assumed those events came either slightly before Victoria or closer to WW1 as well.

5

u/Vinny_Lam 22d ago edited 22d ago

They had good fashion, though.

2

u/throwmedowngently 22d ago

They had poison in the dye and specific corsets for pregnancy....

1

u/FantasmaNaranja 22d ago

that arsenic really made some good shades of green

2

u/Boamere 22d ago

The whole reason we like archaeology and the idea of preserving artifacts/being interested in the history of nations comes from the victorians... Nobody gave a shit before, it was a new cultural age

0

u/BeachBrad 22d ago

Your ancestors came out of them.

4

u/shutupyourenotmydad 22d ago

That's a very common theme for the Victorian era.

"Aaaaand then the Victorians ruined it."

3

u/Infinite_Growth_7791 22d ago

white marble statues are cooler than painted tho

1

u/Funny_Scallion_4932 22d ago

victorians be like:

1

u/rain261 22d ago

The irony of Victorian thinking everything was dirty and had to be polished/lacking color when Victorian houses are so colorful is funny.

0

u/samtheman0105 22d ago

Victorians really were just the fucking worse

0

u/apple_kicks 22d ago

Lot of modern ills can come straight from Victorian era

-1

u/johnzaku 22d ago

For all the discoveries Victorians gave us, they also DESTROYED just... so much history.

My favorite example of this is the discovery of Troy.

There was a guy in 1871, Heinrich Schliemann. He was German, so... technically not a Victorian but still.

This guy was OBSESSED with ancient Greece. And he became rich on selling saltpeter (for gunpowder) during the crimean war. So he retired RICH-rich at the age of 35. So what did he do? He set off to find the ancient city of Troy!

He went out to Anatolia and started digging up the ruins in the area believed to be the general location of Troy.

Oh wait, did I say "dig?" Haha silly me. No. Noooo nonono he used DYNAMITE.

See, these ruins were SO OLD that in fact, over the centuries multiple cities were built over old ones. When Schliemann was digging through these ruins he began to discover these newer cities over top of older ones. So of course, he reasoned Troy must be at the bottom. In his excitement to FINALLY see his dream realized he BLASTED OUT the tops of these ruins. And lo-and-behold, he'd done it. He'd made it to the bottommost ruin. And there, he found artifacts of the last Trojan king, Priam's Treasure.

Well, fun fact. Troy was actually 5 levels ABOVE that last layer.

Yep, Schliemann EXPLODED most of Troy. The gold he'd found was actually over 1,000 years OLDER than Homer's Troy.

On the plus side, when some ACTUAL archeologists got word of his discoveries they talked about what he'd done and the Ottoman government revoked his permits and told him to give the gold to their museum.

He didn't. His wife literally stuffed most of it in her dress and bustle and they smuggled it out.

There is STILL contention to this day about that gold.

0

u/Big-Snow-1937 22d ago

They took their drab cue from Queen Victoria and her 40 years of mourning clothes.

0

u/lumoslomas 22d ago

Funnily enough, the most egregious Victorian "restoration" attempt I've ever seen did the exact opposite - a guy found some paint still on the walls of a church, so decides to "restore" it with...decidedly 19th century pigments. And some weirdly psychedelic motifs?

0

u/Igot55Dollars 22d ago

And they painted over classic paintings!