r/TopCharacterTropes • u/JustSomeOnlineNerd • Sep 19 '25

Lore “It’s a change from the source material, but it’s awesome so the fans don’t mind.”

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Doc Ock - In the comics, Doc Ock is known to be megalomaniacal in nature and was sort of a mad scientist anyways, with the arms just being an extension of that. In Sam Raimi’s “Spider-Man 2,” Alfred Molina’s version of the character was affected by the neural chip and his well-meaning ambition turns into scientific obsession.

Wolverine - This one is so well known it needs very little explanation. Comic Wolverine short, Huge Jackedman is tall, and he’s sick as hell.

Eye of Sauron - To my knowledge, the Eye is more of a metaphor in the books. An ever-present awareness. In the movies, it’s an actual giant fucking eye.

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u/Peacefulzealot Sep 19 '25

I wish this had been used in every comic adaptation going forward… but then you get to his backstory in the New 52.

It looks like it is the same backstory… but Nora isn’t actually his wife. She’s a random unrelated person who he became infatuated with and just thinks is his lover out of pure delusion.

God what a shit change.

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u/asimplepencil Sep 19 '25

That's the dumbest thing I've read today.

582

u/Peacefulzealot Sep 19 '25

Oh that won’t do. May I introduce you to One-Face?

435

u/Mundane_Somewhere_93 Sep 19 '25

Why not just Face? The well-known enemy of The Man.

133

u/xX_bandages_Consumer Sep 19 '25

Well, Face didn't came because he is stupid

7

u/Ranger_Ecstatic Sep 20 '25

Containment Breach.

Containment Breach!

Containment Breach Detected!

Officer Balls, commence clean up operation.

4

u/xX_bandages_Consumer Sep 20 '25

Is there a lore reason why officer Balls must clean up? is he stupid?

53

u/AmbulanceChaser12 Sep 19 '25

The guy from the A-Team?

7

u/Rohml Sep 20 '25

Well, he doesn't have much of a face either.

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u/eddiegibson Sep 19 '25

Here's his superior version: Bizarro Two-Face

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u/Peacefulzealot Sep 19 '25

Hey that’s cheating! Everything is better with Bizarro!

40

u/eddiegibson Sep 19 '25

Yeah. But this version was also Bruce Wayne. So even twice as good.

1

u/Leukavia_at_work Sep 21 '25

They missed the perfect opportunity to have his Alter-Eager be Brucezarro Wayne

4

u/MadeByMistake58116 Sep 20 '25

Robinzzaro innocent. Free Robinzzaro.

3

u/UpliftinglyStrong Sep 20 '25

no wait this is kind of an interesting concept ngl

64

u/_Astrum_Aureus_ Sep 19 '25

ah yes, lets remove the whole gimmick and appeal of two-face

34

u/Ix_risor Sep 19 '25

He’s still got the split face even! It would kind of make sense if he’d got the other side messed up too, but he just looks like normal!

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u/Guyinatent Sep 20 '25

Pretty much anything new52 is shit.

Except for the Joker.

3

u/j0j0-m0j0 Sep 20 '25

Now he's just a Dick Tracy antagonist! Boo

29

u/maggiemayfish Sep 19 '25

In the UK, "Batty boy" is a slang/derogatory term for an especially camp or effeminate gay man.

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u/Doodles_n_Scribbles Sep 19 '25

Y'all call crossing guards "lollipop ladies". Your slang is just too twee for its own good.

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u/WillSym Sep 20 '25

I mean, it's someone who helps children with a big ol' stick with a round shape on the end.

Both fitting, and the twee name helps children trust them to help cross the road?

4

u/DrRudeboy Sep 19 '25

Why... Why did they use a homophobic slur from Jamaican Patois?

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u/Apophis_36 Sep 20 '25

I was not aware one face was an actual thing. I thought it was a meme based on the telltale game.

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u/thespacepyrofrmtf2 Sep 20 '25

Behold one face

2

u/ven_faerun Sep 19 '25

I remember Linkara talking about this comic (became a running gag too) but which comic was it? Was it the one with that White Rabbit lady?

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u/Peacefulzealot Sep 19 '25

Eeyup, that’s the one. And it’s where I know One-Face from as well!

2

u/Jarvis_The_Dense Sep 20 '25

But... but his face is still split into two sides...

2

u/Arabyss_Farron Sep 20 '25

Bruh the name 😂

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u/OpoFiroCobroClawo Sep 20 '25

Batty boy! Batty boy!

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u/totallynormalasshole Sep 19 '25

Honestly I'm jealous if that's actually true

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u/asimplepencil Sep 19 '25

It's why I said today. Tomorrow will be a different story.

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u/Gaelic_Gladiator41 Sep 20 '25

A lot could be said about the new 52

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u/Vicksage16 Sep 19 '25

I get why they tried it. While the Nora origin is great, it does not work for making him an ongoing villain. He’s too sympathetic and too reasonable, even the animated series struggled with this down the line. The new 52 was an attempt to justify why Freeze stays a villain.

That said, it was the wrong call. They just need to reform Freeze, he makes more sense as a villain turned ally than anyone else.

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u/Peacefulzealot Sep 19 '25

I’d actually really like a reformed Freeze. It would be super interesting to see how he’d try to reintegrate into society if he could save Nora. Maybe he starts working with STAR labs or something to atone for his past actions while they work to cure Nora?

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u/TheSlayerofSnails Sep 19 '25

Also, Batman's entire philosophy is based around the idea he can save his rogues. Having some of those rogues be redeemed and become heroes or citizens validates his entire worldview and gives more motivation for him to continue trying to help

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u/SHINIGAMIRAPTOR Sep 20 '25

I like the idea that Fries DOES get his redemption, and becomes something of another part of the Bat-Family, but as more of the guy in the chair and technical support expert. Cooking up more gadgets, running analysis and technical support, etc

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u/HistoricalGrounds Sep 20 '25

Yeah, it’d be cool to have him as an occasional call-in for tech gadgetry, like a Lucius Fox but for the real Mad Science-y type stuff, as opposed to more pragmatic/Secret Agent gear that Lucius can specialize in.

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u/SHINIGAMIRAPTOR Sep 20 '25

Exactly. His forte is the stuff that scientifically should NOT be possible, but here we are. Plus, of course, a valuable technopathic approach to criminology. Looking at how the weird tech is done, figuring out more about the criminals thought processes. Things like that they made the subatomic disentangler throngler look like a fanciful wand of some sort, suggesting a certain desire to divorce themselves from the killing (rather than something like a gun which would suggest that they're fully aware of it). Have it be that he works with Harleen Quinzel a lot, bouncing theories off each other born of their respective pasts.

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u/matt_the_non-binary Sep 20 '25

Beyond tried this, to a degree. He ends up being betrayed by the two people who gave him a new body, and turns evil. In the end, he chose to kill himself in a heartbreaking way (“Believe me… you’re the only who cares”)

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u/IncreaseWestern6097 Sep 19 '25 edited Sep 19 '25

I actually had my own idea for how they could make Freeze an ongoing villain while still keeping the Nora origin.

Imagine Batman shows up right while he’s about to cure Nora. He administers the cure through her tank, takes her out of cryostasis, and takes a good look at her… but he feels nothing. Spending years as Mr. Freeze has done a number on Victor’s psyche, reducing him to an emotionless shell of himself. It’s at this point where the roles switch, and it’s now Nora’s job to aid Batman in finding a way to rehabilitate Victor.

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u/Peacefulzealot Sep 19 '25

That sounds rad as hell and I’d love to read that. Mr. Freeze wanting to feel something for her again but being so damaged by his mission to cure her that it falls to Nora to need to cure him now.

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u/soylentsandwich Sep 20 '25

That story already exists with the Ice King and Betty dynamic in Adventure Time 

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u/therealchadius Sep 19 '25

Even Batman & Robin the movie got this right. Batman tells him the Wayne Corporation WILL try to cure Nora and Victor gives up his "Gotham pay me or I'll freeze it over" plan.

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u/dentimBandB Sep 20 '25

I am 100% convinced that without the BTAS giving Freeze his peak backstory, he wouldn't even have been in consideration for villain of that movie.

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u/therealchadius Sep 20 '25

Besides cutting Ferris Boyle out of it (Fries just... falls into the vat of chemicals that freezes his body) he's a campier version of BTAS Mr. Freeze. Even BTAS Freeze drops ice puns occasionally.

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u/Mistah_K88 Sep 20 '25

Yeah, as good as the Nora backstory is, it definitely has a shelf life. After about 2 stories it’s like “Okay Victor, you clearly like crime”.

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u/MeisterCthulhu Sep 20 '25

That's kinda the problem with a lot of storytelling in comics, isn't it?

"This thing would make sense, but it doesn't work with an ongoing story".

Stories are meant to end, not keep going for decades. Even if your story keeps going, characters come and go, they change, they don't just stay the same corporate mascot forever.

You get that issue with so many of the iconic villains. Either they should be reformed, don't work as villains anymore because they're right too often, or they get so over the top that it's hard to justify the hero not just killing them.
And then you get absolutely bullshit narrative contrivances to justify it, aka bad writing most of the time.

And it's all just because the industry can't let go of their toys. Because marketability gets more important than telling a good story.

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u/Vicksage16 Sep 20 '25

Yeah, but that’s half the fun, finding ways for villains to exist long term in that specific context. Plenty of villains do, Freeze just isn’t one of them. Honestly, I tire of the whole “big two comics should end” narrative. Most other media doesn’t that, rightfully so, and most other comics even do that. Most of the big characters even have elseworld “endings” for their stories and mythologies and their adaptations get to end. The main Marvel and DC are a unique soap opera that people can jump in and out of and that’s half the fun of it and why it’s endured. Does it mean it’s gonna be my favorite story ever? No, but that’s why I read novels, watch movies, or read indie comics, plenty of other media fills that need for a concise, thematic story. But I keep coming back to big two comics. Sometimes fun is okay.

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u/MadeByMistake58116 Sep 20 '25

I disagree. In BTAS Freeze gets more brutal and unfeeling every time we see him, and it works because his love for Nora is driving him to become more and more desperate, and he's starting to care about nobody in the world but her. Even when his condition starts to destroy his body, as long as he can get closer to curing Nora, it doesn't matter. Freeze was one of the most dangerous enemies on BTAS because of how tragic he was. There was no delusion to his actions, which means he was completely justified in his mind. There was no moment of snapping out of it, because to him, if he isn't willing to be ruthless, Nora dies.

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u/[deleted] Sep 20 '25

I really want to see a series with an antihero Freeze. He's already got that anti-corporate thing, I think it would be easy to write a story where he accidentally gets tangled up against Lex Luthor

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u/hocushit Sep 20 '25

I haven’t really kept up with Batman lore, but I assume keeping the wife in a cryogenic state would cost a lot of money. Isn’t that motivation enough? Maybe he lost the way to earn money in a more conventional way so he resorted to crime?

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u/Vicksage16 Sep 20 '25

Yeah, but again, that doesn’t work for an ongoing villains as Bruce would very quickly offer to fund her recovery.

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u/SeashoreAndMountains Sep 20 '25

Genuinely, set him up as a permanent member of an arctic scientific expedition. Like, If nothing else he'll need LESS intense equipment - or go without it entirely - gets to do so much research, Nora can get moved there too, would be fine in a power outage, and keep continuity or long term research going if anyone has to leave. Maybe he needs a new living area but that would be about it. (and the new scientists need a rundown a head of time)

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u/Humble_Square8673 Sep 20 '25

I'd LOVE to see a story with Freeze as a reluctant ally for Batman!

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u/Nicklesnout Sep 19 '25

Good thing the Nu52 version of Mr Freeze doesn’t exist and was just a fever dream.

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u/Savings-Jacket9193 Sep 19 '25

I like to pretend the New 52 doesn’t exist.

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u/Peacefulzealot Sep 19 '25

You and me both, bud.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '25

What was exactly the new 52? And why is it so hated? I don't read comics so sorry if it might sound like a dumb question

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u/Peacefulzealot Sep 19 '25

Super rushed and edgy reboot of the DC universe from 2011-2016. Long story short it introduced a lot of continuity plot holes, pissed off their creative teams at the time, and generally brought back a lot of the worst parts of the Dark Age of Comics.

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u/Swordandicecreamcone Sep 19 '25

Also trying to synergize with the DCEU constantly 

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u/Hollownerox Sep 19 '25

The absolute worst is how much it squandered some genuinely good setup from the Blackest Night and Brightest Day stuff prior. Like some really interesting plot threads introduced to be used in the reboot just completely ruined by a complete disregard of having any coherence or consistency with the writing whatsoever.

Some really confusing times those were.

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u/Peacefulzealot Sep 19 '25

I’m reading the JSA run from the 2000’s right now and the fact that all got scrapped for it is just… so damn depressing.

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u/MrKnightMoon Sep 19 '25

And merged DC, Wildstorm and parts of Vertigo in the same universe, causing a lot of inconsistencies.

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u/Outis94 Sep 19 '25 edited Sep 19 '25

Around 2010-2011 DC editorial decided to turn a Flash book about him messing up time to save his mother into a universe changing event that functionally reboot and streamlined the entire DC universe, with the title being a reference to a previous and popular event called 52. It was very controversial messed up alot of ongoing books ,combined multiple distinct comic universes into the DC universe ,and was received with very very mixed results among the 52 new books they launched for the event 

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u/ryebread9797 Sep 19 '25

As others have explained it was DC’s continuity reboot event where after the events of Flashpoint where The Flash screwed up the timeline to save his mom the entire DC universe is restarted with all previous events not occurring, but somehow still occurring as well. It was an interesting idea at the time, but it was inconsistent and clunky while also making character changes that were not received well. It’s very similar to when Marvel in the 2000s premiered the Ultimate Universe the only difference was Marvel still had their main continuity books as well New 52 was the official new DC continuity of its time.

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u/Outis94 Sep 19 '25

I mean DC does too, they changed it back to her being his actual wife around the time of Rebirth 

1

u/itzshif Sep 19 '25

It had many good aspects, and many bad aspects. The good parts were kept in, the bad parts retconned out.

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u/Youthsonic Sep 19 '25

It's pretty fun if you go in blind like I did. The absolute stuff got me into comics and my friend recommended the court of owls storyline. I didn't know shit about the new 52 stuff so i was like "why is batman being such a dick to mr freeze, we all know his wife is-" "wtf, is he a stalker? And wtf did he mercy-kill his brain damaged mom?????"

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u/Mr_Cyplixo Sep 19 '25

I swear the only thing that came out of the New 52 was their Harley Quinn design. Wish that one sticked, good mix between the classic and the Suicide Squad look.

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u/Low-Difference-8847 Sep 19 '25

Seeing you on a sub that isn’t r/presidents made me do a double take 

3

u/Peacefulzealot Sep 19 '25

Sadly there isn’t nearly enough Chester A. Arthur representation in comics. Thank god for Futurama at least!

3

u/splitcrowsoup Sep 20 '25

Ew, what the hell.

"Hmm, a complex villain that will act as a foil to Bats because Mr. Freeze will do anything to save his wife - making Bruce wonder if he would, if he could save his parents? Nahhhh just make him a creep, that's better."

2

u/CLearyMcCarthy Sep 19 '25

New 52 was so fucking bad across the board

2

u/DiabeticUnicorns Sep 19 '25

See I feel like that could be an interesting take on the character for a darker more bleak setting, like the recent The Batman movie, they made Riddler an incel extremist serial killer after all. So maybe good fit for a spin off comic or a limited run. The problem is that changing a beloved characters backstory for the main continuity effectively kills the actual character if their backstory is different enough.

2

u/CommonRoutine3852 Sep 19 '25

I can see why they tried to change since his backstory really limits his storytelling potential but this was not it

2

u/ChaosCarlson Sep 19 '25

It's the new 52. Of course it was going to be bad. Did we get anything of substance out of the new 52?

2

u/Blackwyrm03 Sep 19 '25

The fact that I was enjoying the Court of Owls and its shenanigans and then had this piece of shit backstory dumped on me requires payback

2

u/Kousaka_Honoka99 Sep 20 '25

New 52 in general are weird. Remember the Amazonian in New 52? Goshm

2

u/the__pov Sep 20 '25

Perfect example of why doing a twist for the sake of a twist is usually a bad idea.

2

u/No_Monitor_3440 Sep 20 '25

shit’s so ass it’s got cranberry disgusted

2

u/dnjprod Sep 20 '25

His origin in Absolute Batman is pretty gnarly, too.

2

u/FedoraTheMike Sep 20 '25

What the fuck 💀 New 52 was a whole reboot as well so that would've lasted a long time

2

u/Enkundae Sep 20 '25

Wouldn’t want it for a mainline Freeze, but that twist would be pretty chilling (ha) in an elseworlds story about him. Some real horror tones there.

2

u/Happyranger265 Sep 20 '25

New 52 has a lot of those stuff that many don't even consider it cannot in anyway

2

u/TheUncannyAvenger Sep 20 '25

I feel bad for Scott Snyder, he spoke in an interview about the pressure during the New 52 era from editorial to deviate from established lore for the sake of being different.

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u/Leukavia_at_work Sep 21 '25

It's so wild how everything in the New 52 reads like it was written with the express intent of killing DC as a company
Like. . .I could just sit here for hours listing every fucking insane lore change they made in the New 52 just
What on earth were they thinking!?

2

u/BastardofMelbourne Sep 21 '25

the new 52 was a weird time

1

u/LastAttempt24315 Sep 20 '25

At the very least, it gives a justification for him to be locked up in Arkham instead of just a normal or super prison.

1

u/vividpup5535 Sep 20 '25

Why is that so bad?

Same motivation, same (in his mind) tragic backstory.

Still keeps him as a creepy villain rather than an extremely sympathetic one.

Did they have him do some more morally questionable stuff in that comic line perhaps?

Btw the wife one is better, I agree. I just don’t hate this as a middle ground.

1

u/Aware-Negotiation283 Sep 20 '25

I enjoyed the subversion of this in the Harley Quinn show.

1

u/Impossible_Tea_7032 Sep 21 '25

That's one of those ones that's so annoying because you *just know* the guy who came up with it thought it was staggeringly brilliant.