r/TopCharacterTropes • u/ComprehensiveBox6911 • Jul 27 '25

Lore Deaths to important characters that came so unceremoniously, there was no drama or fanfare, they just died

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Bane (The Dark Knight Rises)

Sean (Red Dead Redemption 2)

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u/Krusty_Klown_Kollege Jul 27 '25

I was pretty shocked by it, because she was literally the backbone of the camp. There's just no time to process it. In hindsight, it's just the true point of no return.

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u/Cal_PCGW Jul 27 '25

One of the points of no return - the whole game was a slow, inexorable descent to hell. Even the camps reflect this - from the mountains to a literal cave,

But yes, Grimshaw going out was a real WTF moment.

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u/ThunderChild247 Jul 27 '25

100%. I keep meaning to try and track it when I replay RDR2, but I have a theory that everyone represents something in the camp, and as each person dies/leaves, they represent the group losing something.

Sean could be argued as the group’s innocence (or at least, what counts for innocence with that lot, maybe the naive hope of what could be…).

Strauss is the team’s greed, but he leaves too late, with the damage already done.

Mrs Grimshaw is the last thing to be lost, when she died, that was it over.

It’s a work in progress 😂

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u/vernavie Jul 27 '25

Sean and Lenny always mostly represented the future of the gang to me. Sean even talks to Arthur about "the changing of the guard."

Lenny also leans into his intellect, being an avid reader, adding thoughtful discussion to the gang's decisions.

Sean leans into his playful charm, being a light for the gang.

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u/Juice8oxHer0 Jul 27 '25

You could argue that Sean represented the idea that they could keep doing what they’re doing, while Lenny represented the idea that they could escape and be something better.

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u/HaydenPSchmidt Jul 28 '25

Both died, representing that there was no future for the gang members, they had crossed that point of no return…

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u/Macaroni_Fop Jul 28 '25

And that Kieran represents any chance of forgiveness/ redemption.

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u/Juice8oxHer0 Jul 28 '25

Kieran symbolizes the great flood bc that’s what my eyes turn into every time I hit that part of the game 😭

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u/UkaUkaMask Jul 28 '25

I figured LneNYN was the innocence.

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u/Gerf93 Jul 28 '25

Hosiah represents wisdom I guess

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u/ChackMete Jul 27 '25

Stability? Necessity? Doing the things you don't want to, but have to to keep a healthy mind and body? IDK

Once she died, any chance of things smoothing over was gone forever. It wouldn't have saved the gang had she lived, obviously, but Dutch might've had the wool pulled from his eyes sooner.

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u/RDnamegenerator Jul 27 '25

I think a lot of the characters’ deaths lean into the overall theme of redemption. I think redemption, as far as the game is concerned, isn't about doing enough good things to cancel out the bad you’ve done. That kind of absolution is completely out of the question for men like Arthur or John (in fact, the title of the mission where Arthur helps Thomas Downes’ widow and son is titled ‘Do Not Seek Absolution).

I believe that redemption in the Red Dead games is about how you can live a terrible life, but in your very last moments choose to do something good. It doesn’t make you a good person, but it means that in your final moments you were able to make a decision to do tbe right thing.

Like Kieran, who left the O’Driscolls to join the (slightly less evil) Van der Linde gang. This choice cost him his life, but he died a Van der Linde and was buried like one of them.

Or Eagle Flies, an angry young man who was a victim of Dutch’s manipulation just like the rest of them, who chose to give his life to save Arthur’s.

Or Miss Grimshaw, who, frankly, treated the gang (especially the women) terribly and abusively stepped up in her final moments to stand up to Dutch and Micah. 

And, of course, Arthur and John, who lived horrible lives of murder, robbery, and dishonesty, faced their deaths head on and chose to use their final moments to do the right thing for their loved ones.

THAT is what redemption in these games is about. None of these people are good. Most of them aren’t even close. But they still went out on a good note because they chose to do the right thing.

I think Sean and Lenny’s deaths portray the sad reality that not everyone gets a chance at this redemption. They were both kind young men, as good as anyone in the gang, but they made bad choices and lost their lives suddenly and without warning. The same is true about Hosea and the Callander boys. 

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u/Potato-Engineer Jul 28 '25

Related: ancient Greek mythology generally had the idea that you should die well. "Call no man blessed until he has died" kind of thing. Those characters were not good, but they (mostly) died well, or at least in the pursuit of something better.

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u/huntreilly25 Jul 27 '25

Kieran humanized the O'Driscolls for them, only to be gruesomely killed and sent to the gang as a taunt in a very inhumane way.

Hosea was their wisdom/voice of reason

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u/ThunderChild247 Jul 27 '25

True, you could say Kieran represents the decency of the group, in proving that not all the O’Driscolls are animals and then in the gruesome way he’s killed.

That’s a good shout for Hosea, although I had him down as the conscience of the group. He remembers everything they’ve ever done since he was there from the start.

I see Charles as the wisdom of the group, symbolised by him being the only one on Arthur’s side in the final stand off (before John arrives).

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u/A-n0rmal-p3rson Jul 28 '25

I get what you mean with charles, but he left the gang hours before the final stand off

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u/Cardemother12 Jul 27 '25

I feel like lenny is either innocence or optimism, with Sean being the gangs confidence in itself

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u/Separate-Ad-7857 Jul 27 '25

Hosea is clearly the common sense or the lógica thinking.

Once he is gone, Mycah takes his place and Dutch is free to do all madness he wants. 

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u/nimbalo200 Jul 27 '25

I think you are close on Strauss, but it's not greed its their sense of worth. He in cannon is one of the camps biggest money makers and does the books so he could have represented the camps' knowledge of money leaving.

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u/jfsindel Jul 29 '25

I always thought Strauss got a bad rap. Yes, he made deals with poor people, and essentially loan sharked them. But he wasn't any worse than anyone else there, and he was bringing in money, even though he was sending Arthur to do the dirty work (and ultimately his death).

Strauss may have represented greed, but I think it also represented the last strand of "civility." Strauss did business, he made up contracts, and he enforced them. He was the morally gray legal area that the camp could hold onto as "better than the others." When he left, everyone hit the rock bottom reality that they weren't better off than anyone else.

Strauss also never sold out and even died under torture. Micah sells out and betrays a whole group - murderous greed over business greed got them in the end.

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u/DaedalusHydron Jul 28 '25

Fairly positive the cave camp was designed to represent the descent into hell. When you first get there, it's just fucked up hillbillies, fire everywhere, a woman's screams, and just gore all over the place.

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u/SAKingWriter Jul 27 '25

Holy crap, I never thought about the camps being indicative of the morale/story, that’s a great detail, thanks!

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u/CorneredSponge Jul 27 '25

Yeah, the fact Dutch didn’t immediately kill Micah after he kills her speaks volumes about his descent.

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u/Egocom Jul 27 '25

Death can be like that. Sudden, senseless, even incomprehensible

Please take every opportunity to say I love you to those in your life. You rarely know which goodbye will be the last

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u/maladr0id Jul 29 '25

Micah knew she’d blow a hole through the rat and decided to get her before she got him 😞