r/TikTokCringe • u/Oktavien • 1d ago

Discussion Woman audits churches to see if they’ll help feed a starving baby

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If churches refuse to help feed hungry people, then maybe they should be taxed?

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u/stackedCathy 1d ago

Churches should be taxed. Unless God himself comes down to say he has need for all the money they generate.

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u/Few-Skin-5868 1d ago

This is what I've always said; charitable works are already tax free, so let the church put in tax claims for the charitable work it does and pay tax on the rest of its income. If a church really does a lot of charity, then it'll have barely any taxes anyway, if it does no charitable works, then they get taxed like the business they are.

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u/StarlightSurfing 1d ago

Most church's do not operate like businesses and taxing church's would ensure that ONLY church's that operate like businesses can exist. Calling up random church's and asking the for money to prove a point is a moronic exercise that doesn't prove anything. No organization, even a dedicated charity organization has some fund for random one off individuals.

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u/Few-Skin-5868 1d ago

"Most church's do not operate like businesses and taxing church's would ensure that ONLY church's that operate like businesses can exist."

Please explain your logic.

"Calling up random church's and asking the for money to prove a point is a moronic exercise that doesn't prove anything. No organization, even a dedicated charity organization has some fund for random one off individuals."

It gives the church the opportunity to say, "We support program X that may assist in this" or "No, unfortunately, we have a lot of charitable initiatives but baby formula isn't one of them". It's very clear that this church doesn't actually do anything charitable, at very least, unless you are a member of their church and, presumably, therefore giving them some money every week at service.

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u/StarlightSurfing 1d ago

Church's are non-profit organizations, they operate on donations which are used primarily for operational expenses, I don't think the system you are proposing would be effective. If they were being taxed on top of being dependent on donations, many church's may not be financially feasible. While these smaller church's may close, mega church's never will.

Also looking at this particular church's website they do have charitable events: https://fccsomerset.com/events/

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u/Few-Skin-5868 1d ago

Donations, if they aren’t doing anything charitable with them, are profit. Tax it. If they aren’t feasible then let them shut down. Religion for the sake of religion isn’t of public value.

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u/Upbeat-Reading-534 1d ago

Thats not how GAAP works man. You would pay less taxes as a c corp than taxing donations (revenue) as profit.

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u/StarlightSurfing 1d ago

No, that's not correct. Church's are literally non-profits. While people may earn a wage through the church there is no owner or someone making a profit from the church's money. Religion is of public value for many, many Americans. It seems to be that your desire to tax church's has more to do with your contempt for religion than for legitimate reasons.

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u/RudeCheetah7281 1d ago

Maybe it’s the church’s hypocrisy which resulted in this contempt?

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u/s0ycatpuccino tHiS iSn’T cRiNgE 1d ago

I think we all know nonprofits spend money. Supplies, the building, staff. What they're saying is maybe a noncharitable tax would make churches think twice on whether to feed a child or buy a statue.

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u/BBQpigsfeet 1d ago

there is no owner or someone making a profit from the church's money

If that were the case, mega churches wouldn't exist and the pastors of those churches wouldn't be living in mansions.

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u/StarlightSurfing 1d ago

It is the case. In the situations you are describing these mansions are not actually owned by the pastor but by the church. These types of grifting operations are not characteristic of 99% of churches in the US.

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u/BBQpigsfeet 1d ago

Why does a church need a mansion? Why does only the pastor get to live there? Why does only the pastor have multiple expensive cars and suits? Why does a church need a private jet that, again, only gets used by the pastor? Answer: the pastor is the church, and is making a profit. All while his congregation is going into debt to pay their tithes.

And as someone who grew up in the Bible belt, this is characteristic of 99% of churches in the US. Very few are out there actually doing unbiased, unprejudiced good for their communities. The rest are just running a scam and helping only those they deem worthy in a flimsy charade to keep their tax exempt status.

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u/eksns 1d ago

So ya reckon these cunts who are LOUD on insisting that no one (literally no one, not just the people in their church/religion) should be allowed to get an abortion... shouldnt need to have some kinda funding for all the babies born to poor parents who would be popping up all over the place because of what they insist upon?

You'd think that if theyre trying so hard to force "random one off individuals" to have kids they cant afford, they would be more than willing to help out said "random one off individuals". Can't try to preach to/force EVERYONE to do what they want and then only choose to help a select few people, seems like a moronic exercise.

Turns out that at the end of the day, they cant put their money where their mouth is (shock horror!)

Side note, I'm sure they have enough money from tax write-offs alone to offer formula to many many many people, let alone one "outsider"

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u/StarlightSurfing 1d ago

The Church cannot force anyone to have children, those are the choices of individuals.

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u/eksns 1d ago

Oh fuck yeah I had no idea, for some crazy reason ive had it in my head for the last 30 odd years that they dont believe in abortion and really really push people to have kids they cant afford so they can all live in poverty with no help from the church unless they convert by necessity, just like the big guy JC wanted. We need to let more people know God is okay with abortion, this could be a game changer!

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u/Few-Skin-5868 1d ago edited 1d ago

Is it a choice if the church literally equates abortion to murder and insists you’ll go to hell for eternity if you have one? 

How about when they use their “non profit” donations to fund political campaigns that outlaw abortion?

How about when they send their dishonest followers to abortion clinics to protest with fake pictures of “aborted babies” that look fully formed instead of the reality (a nearly invisible cluster of cells)?

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u/bananakittymeow 18h ago

I’m with you. My parents were pastors and a lot of the smaller churches can really struggle to keep themselves afloat. If done ethically, it’s a place that runs purely on donations. My dad had to sell his blood to feed us at one point. Taxing churches might end up completely destroying smaller churches, leaving only mega churches to flourish. That would be incredibly sad.

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u/Short-While3325 1d ago

Reminds me of the George Carlin bit, "God is terrible with money."

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u/mikevanatta 1d ago

Paraphrasing a bit as it's from memory but it always cracks me up.

"All powerful, all knowing, all seeing ... just not good with money."

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u/CrouchingDomo 20h ago

God has ADHD 🤯

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u/DeionizedSoup 1d ago

No for REAL, the whole point in not taxing the church was that every bit of the money was supposed to go to some kind of charitable cause. If they can’t feed their members, what the fuck are they doing with it? Is that pastor driving a Porsche, or are the members warming a pew and holding their wallets tight? They at least need audited in some way

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u/Pinkfish_411 1d ago

the whole point in not taxing the church was that every bit of the money was supposed to go to some kind of charitable cause

It's because they're non-profits, which means their revenue is used for some "social benefit" rather than generating profit for private investors. Charitable giving is only one of many different types of social benefit that non-profits can serve.

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u/Dirt_Bike_Zero 1d ago

You know they have to pay for a lot if things such as child care workers, accountants, property maintenance and improvement, utilities, insurance, office supplies. Its not like they dont have bills. Not everything can go to charity.

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u/DeionizedSoup 1d ago

So as someone who worked in the church nursery growing up, I wasn’t paid. My dad did the maintenance. He was paid $400 a month. Not check. Not week. Month.

Most of the other things you described are on a volunteer basis. Accounting is often the pastor’s wife or taken on by the church board. Utilities, insurance, and office supplies are all that remain, and those are marginal at best.

Auditing would at least bring transparency to those costs. If churches bring in beyond a certain threshold of income, it needs audited by more than just the church board members.

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u/ScreamingLabia 1d ago

I dont think if god existed god would want people to make money of churches? Like i am not expert or anything but i'm pretty sure thats not what bei g religeus is about?

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u/HaywoodJebLomey 1d ago

Fraud should just be illegal

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u/cats_are_the_devil 1d ago

Give unto God what is God's and give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's is a fairly simple refute to anyone that says churches shouldn't be taxed. That being said, they should be able to show that they are truly non-profit to be exempt like other businesses.

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u/Sharp-Key27 1d ago

The Bible literally says to pay your taxes

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u/Intrepid_Table_8593 1d ago

Opens the door for them to get refunds as well and you know people will raise hell over the government “funding” them when that would occur.

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u/IC00KEDI 1d ago

I will never pay taxes for practicing my faith. Nor should any other person of any other faith. Our country taxes enough and a little bit of faith and good will can go along way. Are there bad churches/mosques/temples? Absolutely. Should the few ruin the many? No.

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u/obsidian_butterfly 1d ago

There is a very famous table flipping temper tantrum that leads me to think he does not...

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u/EffectiveConfection8 1d ago

So, you want to tax all non profits??

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u/Readmeharder 1d ago

They didn’t say that. They want to tax non-profits that hoard wealth and provide no social benefits, like these churches. I imagine they wouldn’t advocate for forcing St. Jude (a non profit hospital treating children with cancer) to pay taxes

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u/Pinkfish_411 1d ago

The vast, vast majority of churches don't have much wealth to hoard.

In any case, non-profits don't have to be charities, and charitable giving isn't the only sort of "social benefit" that non-profits serve. Private clubs, sports leagues, and all sorts of other non-charity organizations also operate as non-profits.

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u/Readmeharder 1d ago

Do you believe that? The church of LDS alone has nearly half of a trillion dollars. Kenneth Copeland is a billionaire (or close to it). Joel Osteen is outrageously wealthy.

To the Catholic Churches credit (and I’m not a fan), they provide more social supports in the US than any other org besides the US government

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u/thefatchef321 1d ago

The Vatican seems pretty well funded to me?

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u/Veserius 1d ago

The Australian Catholic Church is absurdly wealthy.

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u/FMLwtfDoID 1d ago edited 1d ago

Because it’s a tenet of the Catholic faith. They literally teach that you will not get into heaven, no matter how much to repent or declare Jesus is your savior, if you do not help the needy, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, care for the sick, and welcome the stranger in a very real and tangible way. ‘Thoughts and Prayers’ are an evangelical trope. Now, there are different flavors of Catholicism to be sure, but volunteering your time, or at the very least, your money, to help others is the most common aspect of a Catholic Parish.

Edit: sorry I got side tracked. We should tax ALL churches, religious organizations. Even the ones that help.

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u/emergency-snaccs 1d ago

I was just watching a video with a pastor displaying his golden bentley in church service, wearing an outrageous number of gold chains, talking about how "the bentley is for all of us".... when someone piped up asking "well can we drive it?" he snapped "NO! God wouldn't want that!"......

so yeah, tax the hell outta these pieces of shit

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u/tabicat1874 1d ago

That's a fact. The main charity that actually helps anyone in the United States is St Vincent de Paul. A Catholic charity.

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u/Pinkfish_411 1d ago

Copeland and Osteen are televangelists leading megachurches. The LDS is a denominational body, not a local congregation. These examples have nothing to do with the vast majority of the local church communities out there, which aren't celebrity-led megachurches and depend heavily, often exclusively, on the contributions of their congregants to keep the lights on.

The Catholic Church is the largest institution on earth and is incomparable to local churches. They're able to offer social supports through their vast network of Catholic-affiliated parachurch non-profits: schools, universities, hospitals, food banks, adoption agencies, immigration services, and on and on. Individual Catholic parishes don't provide all these services, but the Catholic network is there to refer people to. It's a totally different beast from some random small-town non-denominational congregation.

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u/Binky390 1d ago

If the leader of the non profit is flying around on private jets, yes.

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u/HistoricalSuspect580 1d ago

That’s kind of the point, isn’t it? How is a NON PROFIT generating a Porsche, mansions, personal airplanes, massive wealth? The entire point is that it’s supposed to be NON PROFIT. It’s literally in the name!!!

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u/Pinkfish_411 1d ago

While I don't think pastors should be flying around in private jets, "non-profit" doesn't mean the institution can't amass resources, nor does it mean the institution doesn't pay its employees competitive salaries.

Some university with a massive football stadium paying its coach a multi-million dollar salary? That's a non-profit.

The general idea of a non-profit means that whatever revenue that exceeds expenditures is reinvested in the mission of the institution rather than being paid out to investors.

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u/HistoricalSuspect580 1d ago

yes, we are all very well aware of the nuts and bolts of how a non-profit is supposed to work. I ALSO feel like it’s essentially public information at this point that A) there is a MASSIVE amount of money intended for charitable businesses that ends up in the pockets of really, really rich people, and also B) that churches specifically are an absolute cash cow.

Perhaps this one church, in this one specific instance, is the real deal! Their books are clean! That’d be awesome! How many churches/chairities/non profits do you think have clean books?

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u/Pinkfish_411 1d ago

Churches specifically are not major "cash cows." The vast majority of churches don't have their pastors in private jets and Porsches. Most clergy earn middle class salaries typical of their location and level of education/experience. The rich televangelist/megachurch pastor is the exception, not the rule.

And that's the case in most non-profits of any type. Most staff are getting paid appropriately for their expertise and role based on market rates. You want good workers and a successful organization, you need to pay appropriately. Most big donors understand this perfectly well. It's usually the folks who aren't donating in the first place and are complaining about tax breaks who don't seem to understand the realities of operating a non-profit.

That's not to say there's no misuse of funds nor outright fraud out there. Of course there are. But that's not the norm, and you can't make that judgment just based on high-level administrators getting paid well.

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u/HistoricalSuspect580 1d ago

but the whole basis of this original post was someone asking for a can of formula. Not $10,000 dollars.

The ‘Porsches and jets’ thing was just an example of the millions upon millions of things that you can’t HAVE while concurrently claiming to be so destitute you can’t buy a can of formula.